Kaworu is shown barely interacting with people, raised/manipulated by Seele (Gendo calls him Seele's Boy). I think that would explain his strange way of communication. Both him and Rei are inadequate. She is an introvert, he is an extrovert.

His speech at the end of Q I always interpreted as him trying to cheer Shinji up. What he says amounts to "I'll die, but I'll live on through the influence I had on you".

kuribo-04 wrote:His speech at the end of Q I always interpreted as him trying to cheer Shinji up. What he says amounts to "I'll die, but I'll live on through the influence I had on you".

But right after that he says they'll meet again, so how does that work with your interpretation? And if you personally admit you need to interpret what he says, in what way is the character "straightforward"? The rant about information was just one example; it's more common for him to talk in riddles than for him to say something that doesn't require any careful unpackaging at all.

So going back to this:

I can't quite grasp when people (more than I'd expect) read other stuff into his personality or objectives.

We "people" are capable of articulating why we "read other stuff" in the character, and it's just a matter of you actually being interested in the reasons. Kaworu, on the other hand, is by design inscrutable; he cannot tell you what he means or is thinking, and the work will not tell you either, so you can only guess; and what's a good enough explanation for you will not be a good enough explanation for everybody.

Well, he says they'll meet again just as he implied they have met before. Yet Shinji doesn't remember him. Don't know if it's a meta reference of Eva being a story that repeats or if Kaworu is actually trapped in-universe in some sort of repeating cycle. But I don't think he means Rebuild Shinji and him will actually meet again through some means he has foreseen.

His dialogue definitely needs unpacking. I meant he is straightforward personality wise, he just tells Shinji what he thinks. It's something else that his way of communicating is really strange. He does "hide" his plans in 3.0, but by the end he informs Shinji of everything (at least I don't see anything suggesting he was hiding something else/was planning to do spmething different with the spears). I think that piece by piece adninistration made sense in the context (Shinji is freaking out anyway about the overload of new information).

I mean no disrespect to other interpretations of the character. I'm just being honest. Whereas with some interpretations about Eva (or any work) I might not agree with something but still "see it", I don't see the Kaworu thing at all. That doesn't mean that I want to limit liberty in the interpretation of Eva in any way. That woukd be pretty against what Eva stands for. I'm just being honest when I say I don't understand that view of the character.

Hi, long time lurker, first time poster

While I'm working on a longer theory post for the main Rebuild forum, the stuff I'd most like to see in Final would be

- a scene where Eva 01 removes it's armour and restraints to fully reveal it's true nature underneath, like in this piece of concept artwork from the proposal document https://wiki.evageeks.org/File:Proposal_10_adam.jpg

-Given Misato and WILLE's aim of 'turning the red ocean blue' again, and the part in AVANT 1 of Final where they de-Coreify Paris, a sequence where the Earth is reverted back from Core and LCL. There's a similar shot in the Daikon IV animation, when the Earth is restored and blue seas spread out again over a red planet surface, so in Final there might be a sequence, where in EoE it had everyone's souls being released in the 3I and crosses of light covering the planet, there's an 'equivalent' scene of earth being restored.

-the Until You Come to me sequence of Rei Q, Shinji and Asuka wandering through the Near Third Impact landscape

I just kinda wanna see Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 at this point.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I just kinda wanna see Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0 at this point.

Yeah lol.
I've often thought to myself that even if the movie were bad (doubt this will happen) just the act of being able to watch it is a wish granted. It still seems like something unreal.

My first word here, what i'd like to see in 3+1.
Warning: very bad and basic english

What kind of SDAT unlock new tracks with the advancing of the story.

A bit of requests for the king of the Pussies(I don't like calling Sinji this way, but many others like it, so consider this "fanservice")
- yelling at Asuka not to hurting her gratuitously, but to stand(or take) his own ground, and to show to the audience that she isn't always right like she thinks(and this won't happen because Anno himself is an Asukafag);
- getting out of the "good dog" asset before the WILLE(or ROKIT Williams) take its hands on him. Because its true that Gendo manipulated him the whole(Rebuild) third film, but the gaslighting made on him by the ROKIT Williams after the recovery from the space wasn't a joke at all(connected to another thing that i'd like to see, further in this post);
- being worth of Asuka, especially o her forgiveness, respect, and to be seen by her as her equal(background audience throwing out noises). And that this won't happen for pity or, much worse, for a "stick'n carrot" thing;
- a way out from the entire Evangelion world's ruleset(no giant monsters, no giant golems, and foremost no pseudo-religious forcing phylosophy for the meaning of the existence), for himself and who wants to follow him. NOT because he's running away once more, but because he doesn't need these situations anymore. Asuka will be essential for this, and I'm positive she will be willingly helping("EVA's curse" says many things, when comes from someone who believe that the EVA is ALL). And the postponing locandine brighten my hope for this;

Seeing if the fact that the main character is an incompetent mass murderer, in the squad with the "bad guys"(EVA isn't a game of parts, but many others like games of parts, so this is also fanservice) ready for the final brainwashing, while a group of ladies take off the(power) responsibility from his shoulder and be the good ones that everyone would want, instead of Shinj-ahem the Pussy(the real meta-role of Mari, a more likeable ipothetic protagonist), is true or is too good to be true. I'm way much more convinced that is an Anno's trap for the audience, especially considering WHO is Shinji for Anno, that failed joke of the "worth speech"(2.0), and the fact that the Earth in the end of 2.0 is NOT what we found in the beginning of 3.0. If this guessing is correct, Shinji will be still responsible of the Near Fourth, but for the Third he may will be absolvable, if not thankable.

For now it's enough.

Wow, that hurt to read.

To the extent that I can make sense of that, it seems to me to be based on a comprehensive collection of all the main misunderstandings of the story and its characters.

Well, he at least got the part about Shinji not being responsible for Third Impact right - other than that, if you, TheEndWalker, are by any chance German, I can help translating your thoughts.

Edit: I've got no clue why this became a double post. I thought I edited the first, so please, feel free to delete it.

^
This sounds fair enough what TheEndWalker is saying.

It 'll still be a hard compromise how Shinjis relationship with Asuka and Kats turns out in the end when none of them is open to admit what they did wrong or that it happens only if something is happening to them.

The real 4th Impact could still happen, regardless who initates it, so it should happen on Shinjis favor to save humanity, even if it means everything is reset to it's primodial state again. And even if it is stopped, even if there is a method to restore everything into Pre-N3I state as seen in AVANT1, this won't redo what happened before.

Shinji won't die but I to make Asuka and Kats care for him again is only deserved when they realise that they would've endured what they went through better, if they prioitised each other more since the beginnig.

I don't think and very much don't hope that Shin will be this ship-y in its message

@Blockio: What The Cruel is saying isn't exactly shippy, though. "The hope that people can one day uderstand each other" and all that - if everybody took a step back and considered other view-points instead of just their own world, everything pretty much would have turned out better.

@Derantor no, I'm not German, but thanks for the offer. To be clear, as I said in my first post, all my "compliments" toward Shinji were merely faservice. On the other hand, I don't have a generally high opinion of Asuka(especially in 3.0), but I'm a fan of the AsuShin, for me is a key part of EVA in general.

@The Cruel:

The real 4th Impact could still happen, regardless who initates it, so it should happen on Shinjis favor to save humanity, even if it means everything is reset to it's primodial state again. And even if it is stopped, even if there is a method to restore everything into Pre-N3I state as seen in AVANT1, this won't redo what happened before.

4th WILL happen, and Shinji will be in a poor shape when the hell will begins. Errors and low blows also will happens, and even alternate realities. In the original series we have a reality during ep 26(all the pilots are students, Angels probably didn't even existed), and during Instrumentality(the live action scenes of a world without Shinji Ikari), everyone was an escape from consequences of the actions.
Long story short, if the Rebuild is the step forward that it seems, Shinji will create a whole new reality where he can be free of all he did and did not in the whole EVA universe, because(series of long stories short):
- Anno is tired of his creation and caged into it(rumors and personal guessing);
- Evangelion need a dysfunctional and refactory Shinji to work properly, so he's being HELD this way to move forward the show. That ̶h̶e̶l̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ SDAT it's a symbol of this. Or rather a tool for doing this...
- for many ̶b̶l̶a̶s̶p̶h̶e̶m̶o̶u̶s̶ reasons, 3.0 seems to me like a tipping, dead point, between Angel(oid)s on the loose, a Kaiju Earth planet and Peter Pan pilots. I feel this film like Anno challenging us to keep going forever with EVA, and I don't see an end to this with WILLE means, Sealing Pillars or not...

It 'll still be a hard compromise how Shinjis relationship with Asuka and Kats turns out in the end when none of them is open to admit what they did wrong or that it happens only if something is happening to them.
Shinji won't die but I to make Asuka and Kats care for him again is only deserved when they realise that they would've endured what they went through better, if they prioitised each other more since the beginnig.

Sincerely I don't care for now how will turn with Misato, but the 4th will be a couple and common effort between Shinji and Asuka, for the following reasons:
- due to her ( ̶s̶a̶c̶r̶i̶f̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶B̶a̶r̶d̶i̶e̶l̶2̶ ) incident with Unit 03, Asuka is an half-Angel, and considering WHO she is that condition is ALL but casual;
- in every(EVERY) Impact Shini was never alone but wih the wrong mate(there are simple reasons due to the poor functioning of ReiShin and KawoShin, but that's a story for another time), and his mind was always BLINDED and DRAGGED by something else outside. This time it has to be an INNER understanding , something that will make him able to decide alone. Then, he'll become worth of the redhead(not as a prize, but as a companion), and whatever will happens will free both of them(trust me, she is also more than tired of EVAs);
- Anno differentiated the Spears in two types, only of them showed and with catastrophic consequences if someone tries to make something with two equal Spears, even this a thing ALL but casual.
For other implications, he's a "puppy"("doggie" maybe works better), she's a "princess". So, none of them is different from the other, and both of them are trapped into some distorted thought that needs to be broken. And this is all part of the plan. Or rather, of the "programmed destiny"...

You are way too confident about way too specific plot points, some of which have already been disproven. If you go in with that mindset, you will absolutely be disappointed by the movie.

and even alternate realities. In the original series we have a reality during ep 26(all the pilots are students, Angels probably didn't even existed), and during Instrumentality(the live action scenes of a world without Shinji Ikari), everyone was an escape from consequences of the actions.
Long story short, if the Rebuild is the step forward that it seems, Shinji will create a whole new reality where he can be free of all he did and did not in the whole EVA universe, because(series of long stories short):

This right here is what I think to be the core of your problem - you desperately try to relate absolutely everything back to NGE, even when Anno has repeatedly, and explicitly made it a point that NTE is a seperate continuity. right now, we have zero evidence to assume that there will be alternate realities again. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely that Anno will do the same thing twice there. don't count on it.

- due to her ( ̶s̶a̶c̶r̶i̶f̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶B̶a̶r̶d̶i̶e̶l̶2̶ ) incident with Unit 03, Asuka is an half-Angel, and considering WHO she is that condition is ALL but casual;

As explained in quite a lot of detail in this thread, the reason for Asuka being part angel is not because of the contact with the 9th (bardiel is NGE terminology, Rebuild angels don't have names, but that's neither here nor there) but simply because all pilots are. There is a very good reason to why at the end of Q, Asuka distinguishes between "the lilin" and "us" (herself, Rei, Shinji) - while the other two might not be aware of it, she knows that none of them are fully human in nature.

- in every(EVERY) Impact Shini was never alone but wih the wrong mate(there are simple reasons due to the poor functioning of ReiShin and KawoShin, but that's a story for another time), and his mind was always BLINDED and DRAGGED by something else outside. This time it has to be an INNER understanding , something that will make him able to decide alone. Then, he'll become worth of the redhead(not as a prize, but as a companion), and whatever will happens will free both of them(trust me, she is also more than tired of EVAs);

Eva is not, and has never been about shipping. Rebuild is particularily a deconstruction of a lot of ships. Jo and Ha have been ReiShin, Q has been KAwoShin; as things stand, chances are Shin will be a deconstruction of AsuShin. The reason that things went south the past two times is not because he "was with the wrong mate", but because Impact events are by their very nature destructive; they bring an end to life as it currently is. If your takeaway from seeing the almost end of the world two times is that the next time it's gotta work because this time it will be your OTP doing it, I don't think anyone here can help you.

Blockio wrote:As explained in quite a lot of detail in this thread, the reason for Asuka being part angel is not because of the contact with the 9th (bardiel is NGE terminology, Rebuild angels don't have names, but that's neither here nor there) but simply because all pilots are.

No disrespect to you or Reichu, but that is just speculation at this point, isn't it?

Blockio wrote:Eva is not, and has never been about shipping.

This is what I don't get, but maybe I don't understand the term "Shipping". Eva was about the hedgehogs dilemma, and relationships in general. So how can romantic relationships not be part of it, as the logical, most intimate end-goal of opening up to other people? "[You two in my heart], the hope that one day people can understand each other, and the words I love you." Unless Shinji was right, and that's just a delusion and hopeful lie, that's a pretty saccharine, "shippy" message. And if Anno never does things twice, EoE was already a deconstruction of AsuShin. Which is a strange way to go about things anyway if Eva isn't about shipping (even just to deconstruct it), since the TV series prior to the DC-additions and EoE had no romantic relationship between them at all (or any other potential "mate" of Shinji), at least none that I could see. It was all about Shinji coming to terms with himself. Yet those go out of their way to imply some form of love-hate relationship, only stoking the fires.

If there is one thing I'm almost certainly NOT expecting to see in Thrice Upon a Time, it's Shinji becoming romantically involved with one of the other characters.

The farthest I expect Anno to go in that direction is that Shinji gets kissed by another character (my money's on Sakura, Team Nurse). That's something that potentially could happen because Anno's done it before, albeit not in this iteration of the franchise. He teases potential ships with his main characters, but he's never had anyone confess their love to another character directly, face-to-face, in this series.

Plus, I don't get the feeling at this point in the story that Shinji has romantic feelings for anyone, except maybe Kaworu (who's dead...for the time being) and 1.0/2.0 Rei (who's still stuck inside Unit 01).

Shinji and Asuka don't really have any romantic chemistry in the Rebuilds. And he doesn't really have a clue who Mari Makinami actually is other than a girl he had a couple random encounters with in 2.0.


What I want to see in TUAT in general is more time spent on slow-paced character scenes and less action setpieces. I'm not naive and know that action scenes are necessary and sell the excitement and spectacle of the franchise, but the original series had several episodes where no action or battle scenes took place at all and was mostly character work and everyday life storylines that gave us the chance to get acquainted with the characters as they live their daily lives. My biggest complaint about 3.0 is that there were 3 action scenes in the beginning that seemed to burn away the majority of the screentime in the first half of the film. I want to be able to get to know the characters in this series better, because as of right now, a lot of them seem like shallow archetypes in comparison to the original series.

Derantor wrote:No disrespect to you or Reichu, but that is just speculation at this point, isn't it?

That feels somewhat implied by the fact that there is a long and detailed series of posts arguing in favor of the idea. Blockio could maybe have use a "probably" or "possibly" or "likely", but with things like Eva, there is SO much that is left to the realm of "reason it out on your own, ye simpletons", it gets annoying having to guard one's language constantly when speaking of what one personally regards as the only viable possibility or whatever.

Guy Nacks wrote:My biggest complaint about 3.0 is that there were 3 action scenes in the beginning that seemed to burn away the majority of the screentime in the first half of the film.

While I don't agree with the later sentiment that the characters in Rebuild feel like archetypes I do fully agree with the hope for more screen time spent on characters and less on action set pieces. As much as I love the action and world building being done in the film, my favorite part of 3.0 is the slow burn second act when it's just Shinji trying to find purpose at NERV.

Since this is the last film and Anno doesn't have to burn through some Angels or leave anything for a future film I'm keeping my fingers crossed the roughly 2 hour movie only has two major action set pieces.
1. The epic battle in Paris that we saw last year.
2. The huge action climax that will likely take up a lot of screen time.

Everything else will just be the characters. There's a lot to cover.

**I'm also genuinely curious if Anno is going to go for a more traditional final act action sequence that pretty much takes up the last act of the film except for an epilogue of sorts OR if he'll do something similar to EOE where the traditional "action" is out of the way by around the mid point of the film and the rest is all emotional spectacle. I'm hoping for the later but whatever he goes with I trust Anno. The man has a particular skill with endings. I just recently rewatched the entirety of Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water (lesser Island episodes that he had little to nothing to do with and all) for the first time in like a decade and while I was greatly enjoying the show it was the final few episodes and especially the finale that crushed me. I forgot how perfect they are.

Guy Nacks wrote:If there is one thing I'm almost certainly NOT expecting to see in Thrice Upon a Time, it's Shinji becoming romantically involved with one of the other characters.

I don't either, and neither do I want it - and I agree that there is nothing (well, nothing obivous - this is Eva, everything is possible) between any of the characters going in that direction. I just don't get why there is such a strong aversion to people wishing for (or dreaming of) some form of happy end in the form of romance, as if that would somehow ruin everything (especially since there is no way to stop shipping in the first place). But then again, maybe I don't understand what "Shipping" means.

@Reichu: Yeah, it was just the juxtaposition of Blockio saying that TheEndWalker was way too confident in his facts and then proceeding to give your speculation as fact which got to me. Since TheEndWalker is new here, I somehow felt the need to point it out (heh, listen to me, like I am one of the old guard already ...)

Sorry for the thread derailment. On topic, I don't have anything to say, though. I've got nothing specific I want to see, just some things I can do without (like more over the top action, but that ship sailed in the preview), an will just let myself be surprised.