The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:05 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Pilot's If the head were just left in the LCL at Lilith's feet, then it could simply be absorbed into her body when she starts expanding in size.


Not being combative, just curious. How is that much different from this?:

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby Reichu » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:15 pm

I don't understand the question. Is there supposed to be a link there?

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:26 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I don't understand the question. Is there supposed to be a link there?



Sorry, here it is:

forum.evageeks.org/thread/18562/Welcome-Home/

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby Reichu » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:34 am

Lilith is awakened by regaining her own soul and, from there, absorbs Kaworu's remains and his soul with them. Note that Lilith has Adam's flesh within her, so Kaworu's soul has a logical place to go upon absorption.

In any case, this is quite different from Kaworu's soul somehow ending up in Lilith's body of its own accord, an idea I've already pointed out problems with.

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:10 pm

New thought on this...

The MPEs are Adamic bodies clones from Adam itself...Could it be that Adamic souls are then the best candidates as far as functionality then? To be clear, I think that the MPEs contain the souls of the Angels. Then, since Kaworu/Adam always had a complete soul, his Dummy System could then have stronger ego, thus maintain more concentrated control of the Units as a collective as the one with the most superiority over his "children."

Granted, I'll be the first to admit that this theory does have problems...namely that the number of angels (not counting Adam and Lilith) doesn't't exactly match up...

But this kind of power over them + their souls and body types does explain their upgraded abilities - having S2 organs helps too as far as the continuous factor goes...But, then again, the angels have S2 organs as well...


It's like the MPEs are the best perfected versions of the tech Nerv was tinkering with and used in the most lethal ways..

Take for example the contrast to Unit 00

-Lilith's' soul fragment
-Adamic Body clone
-Rei Dummy Plug System

In essence, the soul/body dynamic is a kind of metaphysical body dysmorphia and the fragmenting means less ego control and over sense of instability

By contrast, all of the flaws are bypassed or overcome within the MPEs, espeiclaly if the idea of them having souls holds any water..

Although, by contrast, soul fragmenting could be what's going on here (as opposed to collecting - something SEELE already would ahem practice with in bringing Adam's soul into Kaworu's body)...They could've taken the data from what's going on with Rei or even Kyoko. The implication being the the souls are actually fragments from Kaworu following his death... I mean, while SEELE state that Adam's soul resides completely within Kaworu in the DC of ep. 24, it would seem that after he's killed, it would be fair game...Especially given the fact that we never see the MPE's until afterwards...
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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby Caroline L.S. » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:46 am

There is one profoundly disturbing option here. Lets say that NERV had backup cores like in the case of unit 3. They had full class of pilors compatible with those cores. The said class was evacuated. I ask where... Imagine if it was revealed that the pilots of those MPs are Asukas and Shinjis classmates drugged or othervise forced to the plugs.

In this case the MP fight would be another level of messed up. Perfectly aligning with the whole EVA misery untill death theme. I bet this was the plan but it was scrapped for being too messed up even for EVA.

Imagine Asuka knew who she was fighting. Imagine the faces of those classmates flashing on the screen when she wrecks each MP eva. I think that would be too much of the horror but I believe that this might be the original intention.

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby Reichu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:04 am

Caroline L.S.: The MP Evas are piloted by Kaworu dummy plugs. Blink and miss it shot of one of the plugs going in when the camera zooms in on an MP unit for the first time.

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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:37 pm

View Original PostCaroline L.S. wrote:There is one profoundly disturbing option here. Lets say that NERV had backup cores like in the case of unit 3. They had full class of pilors compatible with those cores. The said class was evacuated. I ask where... Imagine if it was revealed that the pilots of those MPs are Asukas and Shinjis classmates drugged or othervise forced to the plugs.


Interesting theory and I love where you brain is on this one, epically with the dark creepy factor of NGE's misery. However, the MPEs are more or less automatic on account of being piloted by the Kaworu dummy plugs. However, spare cores and classmate candidates does bring to mind this idea that maybe they used the souls of the other kids' dead mothers such Kensuke and Hikari, both of whom also don't have a mom...

However, I still stick by my theory that given how "angelic" the MPEs are, plus the Adamic bodies + Kawor's (ie. Adam's) influence via the dummy plug, that they were more or less harvested and built from all of those dead Angels that were "disposed" of. This includes both their souls and S2 organs.

And there is evidence to suggest that this has happened before. Just look at Unit 00. After the fight Ramiel in ep. 6, it gets form its basic orange to getting a sleek new blue veneer. In fact Ramiel is seen being physically deconstructed and broken down in the back ground for a few episodes after Operation Yashima.

In essence not only doe step Unit have the psycho-cogntive problems of being part of Lilith's soul made briefly human and then murdered and stuck into the cloned body of its anti-thesis - Adam, now it's being slapped with some cannibal-like madness where it's essentially given a new coat of flesh from the skin of Adam's babies.
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Re: The Endless Question: The Souls of the Mass Production Evangelion Series

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Postby Derantor » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:23 am

They most definitely have cores prepared with the souls of the pilots mothers. Otherwise, Toji wouldn't be able to become a pilot seemingly out of the blue. But there's no reason to suggest that they used those cores in the MP-Evas. If anything, they'd use loyalists or weak minded people to facilitate dummy-plug control. Unit 01/Yui was able to reject the dummy plug outright. When Asuka is unable to start her Eva, no attempt is made to use the dummy-system, even though it had been installed and is operational at that point. This suggests that Kyoko is incompatible as well - possibly because of the nature of her split soul, leaving all the motherly/caring bits inside Unit 02. Both Kyoko and Yui went into the Eva willingly to protect their children. For the MP-Evas to work reliably, SEELE would use people who become part of the Eva to initiate Third Impact and thus don't reject control.

There is nothing to suggest that Unit-00 revieced anything more than a new paint-job. It already is a clone of Adam, a progenitor, which, I presume, is far more powerful than any other angel. The only reason that the Evas do not curb stomp any enemy is because they are artificially limited in their capabilities - limits that Unit 01 surpasses every time Shinjis life is in actual danger. Given how dangerous angelic contamination is, I don't think they'd risk it by cannibalising angel parts to "improve" Unit-00. Besides, all the other angels are inferior copies/offspring of Adam to begin with - there is nothing to gain by incorporating their parts into an Eva.

Regarding the S2 Engines, I think it's strongly implied that those of the Eva series are man-made. There is no mention of any recovery, the only angels whose corpse is relatively intact are Shamshel and Ramiel, all the other get completely destroyed. There's also the debacle with Unit 04, where they tried to install an S2-Engine built in Germany, I think. The whole idea behind mass-production is that it isn't relying on salvaged parts, being repeatable indefinitely. Relying on salvaged angel souls isn't exactly sustainable.

The MP-Evas are no more angelic than Unit 01 under dummy-plug control. If anything, they are a little slow on the uptake, just standing there while Asuka tries to tear them apart. Unit 01 immediately started taking Unit 03 apart, while the MP-Evas take some time to become active, pointing to the fact that they'd never been activated or used in combat before. They were equipped with replica-lances. They could have finished Asuka off the second they arrived, they just didn't, because the dummy system is "dumb". On the other hand, they are capable of performing the ritual to start third impact, so, maybe they aren't as dumb as they seem, but just cruel and play with their prey. Or they run on Windows 2000 and just need ten minutes to actually start up.


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