Who will die in Final.

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Re: Who will die in Final.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:25 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:My point was that Rei, in 2.0, actually DOES die. She's been eaten and digested. She has no body of her own. She's dead. (Her soul still being active doesn't negate this, considering so many cultures have in place contingencies for post-death spiritual activity. Ghosts, for instance.) If dying and then having your soul moved into a vessel that's still alive means you "survived" (= never actually died), then, logically, Rei 2 in NGE didn't die either, since her soul was promptly moved into a new body. You could say that NGE!Rei survived even better than her NME counterpart, since at least she got her own body which she can autonomously control, and isn't trapped in the core of an Eva that already had someone in it.


I would still think of the event in ep 23 more as a death than that in 2.0, since Rei III suffered from some sort of memory loss, while Rei in 2.0, at least at the end of that movie, seems to be completely herself.
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Re: Who will die in Final.

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Postby Sachi » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:17 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I would still think of the event in ep 23 more as a death than that in 2.0, since Rei III suffered from some sort of memory loss, while Rei in 2.0, at least at the end of that movie, seems to be completely herself.

Completely herself, except of course she has no body. The next Rei we see with a body (Rei Q) does indeed lack the memories of the previous Rei, and is in fact much more of a blank slate than Rei III was relative to Rei II in the original series, because no apparent memory upload was given to Rei Q.
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Re: Who will die in Final.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:54 am

She has no body, but storytellingwise I wouldn't consider her to be "dead" (whatever that is defined as exactly in Evangelion).

While the Rei Q thing is true, she isn't the equivalent of Rei III in NGE. She isn't actually the same soul, just a clone. So her state of mind I wouldn't use to measure Rei II's deadness. I'm pretty sure Rei II will show up in Shin and have continuity of memory.
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Re: Who will die in Final.

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Postby The Cruel » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:07 pm

You can be glad that I still care for the characters enough to not want them dead, or why else did I come this far with Eva.

That doesn't mean though I would be less angry at them or give them any credit for fixing their mistakes with what happened in 3.0.

For the characters to die for real in FINAL, than it was in NGE and EoE, can't be ruled out and it would hit shippers hard if that happens to certain characters, which is what should be alredy known, to not get too attached to them for how often they fucked up the best chances they had.

It also can't be ruled out that even if the characters live, something not less fatal than dying can happen to them. It would be like they are runnung away all the time for wanting to fix the irreversibel to much, if they don't accept it.

I was always better off with that and I still am, since I found Eva, watched 3.0 and waiting for FINAL over the years and it became only truer for me.
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Re: Who will die in Final.

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Postby Blockio » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:47 pm

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:You can be glad that I still care for the characters enough to not want them dead, or why else did I come this far with Eva.
Almost cut myself on the edge there.
That doesn't mean though I would be less angry at them or give them any credit for fixing their mistakes with what happened in 3.0.

What mistakes exactly are you referring to? All you've ever done is shake your fist in the general direction of Q, without ever saying what you actually dislike about the movie; makes meaningful conversations like this one quite hard
For the characters to die for real in FINAL, than it was in NGE and EoE, can't be ruled out and it would hit shippers hard if that happens to certain characters, which is what should be alredy known, to not get too attached to them for how often they fucked up the best chances they had.

It also can't be ruled out that even if the characters live, something not less fatal than dying can happen to them. It would be like they are runnung away all the time for wanting to fix the irreversibel to much, if they don't accept it.

I was always better off with that and I still am, since I found Eva, watched 3.0 and waiting for FINAL over the years and it became only truer for me.

I have little idea what you mean with any of this. All I could make sense of was that you want them to spite shippers and something fate worse than death...
Care to elaborate?
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Postby The Cruel » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:56 am

^
Very daring of you to insinuate me to ever want anything, or want to spite on others. That would make me have the same risks most people disregarded to get too often.

It has taken such a scale with 3.0, that makes me care less over the wellbeing of the characters and a better ending for FINAL than EoE and more how they fuck it up and how many end up disatisfied and devisive once more.

If it‘s seen as a lifelong test about how to grow and move on as a person and human being and to value the most fundamental things the way it should, then many can fail at that. I have nothing to lose and I still get what I wanted more than many will ever get from watching FINAL.

It will happen the way it does and It wouldn‘t be different if this happened earlier or if FINAL was released together with 3.0.

I‘ll give my own deserved ending to Eva, regardless how awful FINAL tries to end better. It doesn’t.

I would still be here to tell this now.
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Postby Blockio » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:07 am

You might wanna consider taking off the sonic-the-hedgehog-oc levels of edge if you're posting with the intent of getting any sort of point across.

And, I repeat myself - care to elaborate just what your problem with Q is? Once again you have done nothing but shake your fist in the general direction of the movie, self-righteously assuming that everyone on here follows the same kind of insane troll logic you do and just pretends to not understand out of malice or something.
Spoiler warning: We don't. You're making about as much sense as an early stage neural network that has only been fed poorly executed shitposts as learning material.
If you want to engage in any sort of meaningful conversation, try reading your own posts from the perspective of someone who isn't you
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Postby The Cruel » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:10 pm

^
I tell you what it is and I don't care if you don't understand it or that I'm edgy to you. I don't bend my knees to anyone. Apologies and Justifications are for cowards and victims who are scared of the judgment of others:

Kats, Rits and WILLE have disgraced themselves hard with the way how they dealed with Shinji. They ruined it themselves with how poorly they planed to confine him and they should've known in the way they treated him, that he would escape. They didn't have to use the Chocker on him if they don't let him pilot Eva. They should've just put a guard in the same room as Shinji and Sakura and he would have stopped him without to the need to kill him. If they are so sure to punish Shinji, then it would be disgusting of them to forgive and still care for him. They are irresponsible themselves and don't admit what they did wrong. It's so easy for them to make it only Shinjis fault. I don't care of their fucking excuses. They should keep treating him like trash.

The new members of WILLE, Sakura, Midori, Hideki, Sumire, etc, they are only collateral damage for joining this failure of a pseudo Anti-NERV-SEELE organization. They shouldn't have showed up.

Asuka, if she is so sure to punish Shinji for what happened to her in Matsushiro and what she went through since then and to feel only anger, sorrow and disgust for him and to see him only as a brat, then it makes her really despisable if she fails to punish him and forgives and still loves him, when it's clear that Shinji disregarded that he should've cared about her and realise how serious it is what happened of her because of him. Asuka and Shinji don't deserve it better with each other. Their form of love should only be a disgusting and punished one.

Mari, what ever she promised to Yui and Kyoko, to protect Shinji and Asuka, she better fails at that. Her awfully happy and optimistic attitude is worth nothing.

And to Shinji himself, it doesn't matter if he only almost initiated 3I and Kaworu stopped it at the end of 2.0, why is it called N3I then? Anyithing else in these 14 years since then with the conflict against NERV and SEELE put the world into a Impact-like state. Only for being capable to initiate a Impact, Kats, Rits and WILLE treat him like trash and they don't want to take responsibility for his actions the same as he should. All Shinji had to realise, is that he shouldn't have let himself be used by Gendo. The choices he has are only what punishment he gets, By Kats and Asuka for N3I and Matsushiro or being punished harder for now initiating N4I. It means nothing that he stops hating himself or what ever he does now.

It means nothing if Gendos Impact is stopped or that Asuka and Kats forgive and love Shinji. They made it so worse with each other that it doesn't feel deserved.

They failed to make each other care. They shouldn't even start to do so.
Last edited by The Cruel on Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Avatar: I declare myself as WILLEs deserved enemy and Asukas and Shinjis punisher

You can (not) hope

„Unfortunately, those other fools and idiots gave you the most worthless feeling. And that feeling is hope. The unicorn alive shitting a magic rainbow is but an illusion.“
-Doom Head, Rob Zombie's 31

„If you were a better person, you wouldn't be here.“
-Loading Screen, Spec Ops: The Line

„Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously.“
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-Colonel John Konrad, Spec Ops: The Line

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Re: Who will die in Final.

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:52 pm

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:Kats, Rits and WILLE have disgraced themselves hard with the way how they dealed with Shinji.
[...]

You can really only think this by failing to understand the situation they are in.

The new members of WILLE, Sakura, Midori, Hideki, Sumire, etc, they are only collateral damage for joining this failure of a pseudo Anti-NERV-SEELE organization. They shouldn't have showed up.

They are simply the bridge bunnies in this iteration of the franchise - why have anything against them (or do you have a similar dislike of the bridge bunnies in NGE)?

it makes her really despisable if she fails to punish him and forgives and still loves him

As I recall, you've made it clear before that you despise the concept of forgiveness... And we don't see that she loves him, either.
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Postby Rommel » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:43 pm

I have always had a bad feeling Asuka is going to die. If we are lucky she might get some development before it happens, but the way this has gone I'm not hopeful.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:15 pm

I expect both Asuka and Mari to fall in battle and get taken into Eva-13, but death is a pretty flexible concept in Eva so they'll probably be fine. :p
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Postby Gus Hanson » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:47 pm

For some reason, from the moment in 2.0 that Mari said the line about using adults to further her own agenda, I knew that somewhere along the way she would be dead meat. Maybe I am wrong but it's just what my gut is telling me.
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Postby Rommel » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:23 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I expect both Asuka and Mari to fall in battle and get taken into Eva-13, but death is a pretty flexible concept in Eva so they'll probably be fine. :p


Yeah, I can totally see that.

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Postby Joseki » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:37 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:I expect both Asuka and Mari to fall in battle and get taken into Eva-13, but death is a pretty flexible concept in Eva so they'll probably be fine. :p


Mari Asuka and the Wunder have to fail otherwise I see no real reason for Shinji to be inside Unit 01 and be in the situation to decide for the whole world.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:39 am

Yeah, it seems pretty inevitable on a dramatic level. All the foreshadowing for the recombination of the four Adams is just the cherry on top. (I.e., Asuka needs to be returned to Eva-13, and Mari to Mk.06 which is fused into 13.)
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Postby Blockio » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:24 am

Just from my gut instinct, I feel like just one of them will fall and forcefully get returned to their respective Eva, while the other does so as a last attempt to turn the tide of battle.
Won't be surprised if it's otherwise, but that feels like the more dramatic way of achieving the same end result to me
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Postby Reichu » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:10 am

My own extremely over-elaborate guess:

02 and 08 will do their fusion dance to take on 13. It doesn't go so well, naturally. Somehow or other -- maybe via Fuyutsuki using expospeak to taunt them, or Mari revealing just how much she really does know -- the truth comes out that Eva-13's base body (i.e. before all the fusions) is Asuka's original body as "Urizen". Asuka rightfully gets peeved that a couple of dudes are inside HER BODY and using it for the Apocalypse. But more importantly, if that's her body, maybe she has the power to stop Final Impact.

So she does something that forces Eva-02's core to absorb her, and Mari is entrusted with getting that core into Eva-13 so Asuka can take control. That doesn't go so well, either, since all it does is give 13 even more power (as it's become more complete), and Asuka isn't able to stop anything. Mari is totally fucked, and promptly gets absorbed into 13 as well.

Cue Wille being forced to unleash Eva-01 -- the only being left that could possibly oppose 13 -- with Shinji inside.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm

I’m just gonna point out that all of these non-Shinji characters dying probably won’t mean anything to Shin Eva unless these deaths motivate Shinji to do something epic. The only non-Shinji character to do that in her death so far in these movies was Rei II. (Or, at least the giving up of her human form.)

The only other non-Shinji character I can see whose death would motivate him in the same way is Misato.

If the predicted scenario around these characters dying doesn’t directly involve or effect Shinji, then it probably won’t happen. These movies are about him, not about the ensemble cast.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:32 pm

I'm pretty sure Asuka and Mari "dying" and Shinji being forced back into Eva-01 is something that directly involves and affects Shinji. :p
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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:33 pm

Well, Asuka almost dying had a big effect on him too.
With Shin Eva being a quarter of the story, and possibly the longest film of the four, I think anything could happen with any of the characters as far as how relevant they are to the plot or what gets told about them.
I really am ready to expect the unexpected.
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