Do the right thing, kids.

Deny the mouse its cheese.

Reichu wrote:Deny the mouse its cheese.

This goes double for me considering I'm on the Mouse's payroll.

Zoop wrote:Spoilers!

All I want to know is does that little toxic asshole Kylo get his redemption? You can put it in spoilers cause if he does I'm done with franchise...

My only question is, do I watch this before or after I watch Cats? Like, if I watch Cats first, I might be underwhelmed by how bad Ep IX is, and I don’t want that. It at the same time, I wanna watch Cats while there’s still a somewhat crowded theater.

Decisions, decisions...

silvermoonlight wrote:All I want to know is does that little toxic asshole Kylo get his redemption? You can put it in spoilers cause if he does I'm done with franchise...

I haven't seen the new movie, and probably won't until there is a home release, but I'm curious as to why you think Kylo is unworthy of redemption.

^ The guy spent two movies as an unrepentant asshole who killed his father just to feel something. Saving all that repentance arc until the very last film is gonna be a huge narrative undertaking, as it would basically have to start from scratch within terms of making him feel sympathetic to most audiences.

IMO, it’s not that Kylo can’t repent, but rather that the past couple films haven’t made a good argument for that repentance, and this last film already has to tie all of these other loose ends together somehow on top of establishing and paying off this repentance arc. I’m not expecting great things.

@silvermoonlight, the film as subtitled “Rise of Skywalker,” and Ben Solo is the last of the Skywalker’s precious bloodline. So......

The fact that people dislike TLJ is still the weirdest thing about SW to me. And there's tons of competition.

And my motivation to watch this movie is so low.

About the leak, it was accounts on reddit sharing the plot and even plot revisions (there were new ideas that got taken out of the film for being "confusing", like Rey and Kylo being stronger when they were close to each other, like a Force reaction, all probably things thrown out with the reshoots).

Guess Disney didn't pay them [critcs] enough

Come on man.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:IMO, it’s not that Kylo can’t repent, but rather that the past couple films haven’t made a good argument for that repentance, and this last film already has to tie all of these other loose ends together somehow on top of establishing and paying off this repentance arc. I’m not expecting great things.

TLJ even restaged the episode VI throne room scene iconic for Vader's redemption to have a clear contrast and show that Kylo is worse than Vader and can't be redeemed.
IX spoilers

cyharding wrote:I haven't seen the new movie, and probably won't until there is a home release, but I'm curious as to why you think Kylo is unworthy of redemption.

He killed Han Solo and he's an utter creep...and there's a post further back in this thread as to why I dislike the second movie trying to pair him up with Rey since it sends out a very dangerous message that all abusive assholes need is a little love to make them better since in real life this leads to serious consequences and people killing their partners and I'm utterly sick of Hollywood not getting how dangerous this trope idea really is.

A lot of series and movies are stepping away from this trope and trying hard to distance themselves from it and for every good reason as its why S3 of Stranger Things came under really serious fire due to Hoppers behaviour which was very bad throughout the season and ruined it for everyone watching because the duffle brothers did not in any way subvert or question the trope leading to a hugely insincere final which you found it very hard to give a damn about what happened.

silvermoonlight wrote:and there a post further back in this thread as to why I dislike the second movie trying to pair him up with Rey since it sends out a very dangerous message that all abusive assholes need is a little love to make them better since in real life this leads to serious consequences and people killing their partners and I'm utterly sick of Hollywood not getting how dangerous this trope idea really is.

But precisely that is what TLJ is about. Kylo uses Rey's goodwill and innocence. She learns the lesson though when he shows his true colors.
TLJ never portrays Kylo in a positive light. It just shows things from his POV and (possible) causes for his behaviour.
https://youtu.be/aVxbUPZlYPw

kuribo-04 wrote:But precisely that is what TLJ is about. Kylo uses Rey's goodwill and innocence. She learns the lesson though when he shows his true colors.
TLJ never portrays Kylo in a positive light. It just shows things from his POV and (possible) causes for his behaviour.
https://youtu.be/2Nfiv91WNbo

That is a fair point regarding the second film through the way I see it is if he kisses her in the final movie and makes a heroic sacrifice (Like hopper did in ST3) its all undone because then it oh I gotta feel sorry for the slimeball asshole and maybe he loved me (Sad feelings) then it becomes about his pathetic possible love and not about Rey being the master of her emotions and power and beating the big bad.

I really don't know what to say here. Disney's attempt at making SW movies has been.

Wow. I'm blanking on how to describe their incompetence. So yeah. I guess I have to agree with Chu for once. Deny the mouse it's cheese.

As for myself, I have the books and games KK thought didn't exist and I consider those to be the canon timeline. Time to re-read the New Jedi Order series I guess.

silvermoonlight wrote:That is a fair point regarding the second film through the way I see it is if he kisses her in the final movie and makes a heroic sacrifice (Like hopper did in ST3) its all undone because then it oh I gotta feel sorry for the slimeball asshole and maybe he loved me (Sad feelings) then it becomes about his pathetic possible love and not about Rey being the master of her emotions and power and beating the big bad.

IX spoilers:

Rey Skywalker, a Force-sensitive human female, was a Jedi who fought for the Resistance against the First Order during the New Republic Era. Though born as Rey Palpatine, she was unaware of her lineage as the granddaughter of Emperor Sheev Palpatine.

Ugh.

I love Palpatine and would love to see Ms. Palps and Palps Jr.... of course, that will probably happen in 20 different comics like it happens for every single plot point in Star Wars, though.

Problem being, I know Palps just has to be eeeeVVVVIIILLLL so he is not allowed to actually love a woman or even care about a family member so it will just be another part of his plan for UNLIMITED POWAH!

Like I mentioned about the 20 comics, Star Wars has the unique case of canon being pretty much everything released under its belt, except for the Lego stuff (I think?!?)... people usually take this for granted so every single plot hole and inconsistency is explained and retcon to hell and beyond. Not just the major stuff like the Death Star flaw, pretty much every minor detail is addressed, and Disney is likely only going to expand the metaphorical milking of this metaphorical space cow, and then people are going to act like it was all genius and planned all along and not an obvious, messy clashing between Rian's new and... debatable ideas, and J.J.'s mystery box bullshit.

Well, at least The Mandalorian is still pretty good! And hopefully, so will be the future Kenobi series.

What I really want is The Old Republic era to be (fully) re-canonized. It would make an excellent series or movies.

Bastila best girl.

kuribo-04 wrote:Come on man.

Disney has been caught inflating their revenue, and I have not forgotten them claiming Captain Marvel was sold out for weeks despite my theater being only semi-full opening night. It is absolutely not far fetched to think that they would have some sort of deal with higher end reviewers. It would be more far fetched for it not to be the case.

Disney is not exactly well-known for being a particularly honest, fair, pro-competition or consumer-friendly company... very few are, really.

TheFriskyIan wrote:Disney has been caught inflating their revenue, and I have not forgotten them claiming Captain Marvel was sold out for weeks despite my theater being only semi-full opening night. It is absolutely not far fetched to think that they would have some sort of deal with higher end reviewers. It would be more far fetched for it not to be the case.

I dunno. Ocam's Razor tells me the reviewers just reviewed the films.
Just like with the constant rumors that IGN and/or other sites get payed, you'd only need one honest person and the whole conspiracy would have leaked.
I just don't buy it.
I also agree with reviewers on every Star Wars film so far. So I don't see what's weird about their scores and reviews.

kuribo-04 wrote:I also agree with reviewers on every Star Wars film so far. So I don't see what's weird about their scores and reviews.

The fact that it's Star Wars and it's not congruent with the audience's perception of them. It took YEARS for the Prequels to garner the hate they got and even then they still get haters begrudgingly admit that George knew how to do setting & world building. So what's causing such a massive difference in these new movies? No one is gonna buy the Russian robot trolling argument.

If what you mean is that the audience reception is bad, that's not generally the case.
Look at Rotten Tomatoes, for whatever reason Rise of Skywalker has a good audience reception.
The only constant is that audiences seem to have the opposite reaction to critics most of the time.

I know saying stuff like this is controversial, but I think it's as simple as most Star Wars fans not having much film knowledge. Which is OK (what isn't is being an immature asshole like many in that horrible fandom are).
It makes sense. Star Wars is one of the biggest franchises. It attracts EVERYONE. Only a (small) percentage are gonna be hardcore film nerds.

Which doesn't mean somebody who knows film can't dislike Last Jedi, for example. But it sure won't win over casual audiences that want some escapism and fan service. Basically, what Marvel does (which doesn't mean they are all bad, but most of them very clearly aim to be crowd pleasers). It's no coincidence those films are apparently more well received than Star Wars now.

Meanwhile film critics will appreciate films like Last Jedi...well, actually being about something.

It's also worth noting that TFA and TLJ are the only ones that got scores in the 80s range on Metacritic of all the new films. So I don't see reviewers praising all of them.

@FelipeFritschF

messy clashing between Rian's new and... debatable ideas, and J.J.'s mystery box bullshit.

The thing is though, at least IMO nothing in TLJ clashed with TFA. It's IX that has decided to reject everything in the prior movie despite being the last entry for some reason (ehem fanservice).
And none of Rian's ideas seemed bad to me (outised of a couple little things here and there). The opposite, they made TLJ the third best SW film in my ranking and made me excited for a potentially amazing episode IX.
IX spoilers kinda

silvermoonlight wrote:All I want to know is does that little toxic asshole Kylo get his redemption? You can put it in spoilers cause if he does I'm done with franchise...

All you want to know?


The rest, heavy spoilers!:

Zoop wrote:All you want to know?

SPOILER: Show

Yes, he does, not very satisfying, imo

The rest, heavy spoilers!:

SPOILER: Show

During a fight with Rey, Leia uses force powers to reach Ben (which also kills her), which gives Rey the chance to mortally wound him. Rey is shocked what she did, and uses the force to heal him (hence the powercreep i mentioned, all sorts of new abilities). Han's memory pops up (not an actual force ghost, we'll leave that for Luke to appear like that later ...) telling him it's all ok, and that it's not Ben that's dead, but Kylo > redeemed. Rey goes to confront the Emperor, Ben follows her and helps out. In the final confrontation, Rey defeats the Emperor (by remembering the force is with her, al you really need is the power of friendship and all that) but it kills her. Kylo uses the same healing trick (he saw once) and gives his life to save Rey. And thus The Last Skywalker died, but since Rey has Palpatine as a last name, when someone asks her her name, she says Rey Skywalker (hence the title of the movie). All very cliche and mush mush. Oh right, they actually kiss before Ben drops dead.

Thank you for posting...when did Jedi become wizards because this sounds so insanely far out there like something I'd see in a fantasy film, not a sci-fi one? Like I know the force is powerful (edit) okay read up on force healing that is a thing I wasn't aware of but I get the impression the old canon version could not bring you back from the dead.