Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Akko » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:19 pm

Okay, so this is something that has been bothering me for a while now... Ever since my first run through the Rebuilds I wondered why the heck the three pilot girls share the nami kanji (波) in their last names, apparently the reason for changing Asuka's name it's because they wanted to show how different the Rebuilds are from the original series but that doesn't fully explain why her last name now has this kanji that is shared with Rei and Mari. In a superficial perspective, this connection doesn't seem to have any importance and even feels like something really unnecessary (I'd even say that if Mari's last was, I dunno, Minamoto and Asuka kept Soryu nothing plot relevant would seem to be affected) but the fact they deliberately wanted to connect these 3 characters makes me feel there's more to this "cool ship names" thing.

According to our good ol pal wikipedia-sama, the Ayanami-class were a bunch of military ships (particularly destroyers) and the ships that conform this class are:

1. Ayanami
2. Isonami
3. Uranami
4. Shikinami
5. Takanami
6. Oonami
7. Makinami

I do recall a Japanese fan mentioning something like this as well and made a theory about Asuka and Mari being clones like Rei, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the term "Ayanami series" only mentioned in the Rebuilds? and if that's the case, what if the "Ayanami series" term doesn't reference to just Rei clones, but to other variations of the Ayanami-type? I know this sounds crazy and I do have my own questions about it, like, why would they bother on making other sets of clones? sticking with only Rei clones would probably be more simple and maybe cheaper as well. Another idea I have in mind is that their last names were changed when they were chosen to participate in the whole Eva stuff, but I'm not really sure about that one and the clone explanation makes more sense to me personally... And what do you guys think? Do you think they're clones as well or do you have another idea in mind?

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Re: Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Blockio » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:09 pm

Asuka and Mari being clones doesn't really make sense in the narrative. While your observation about the ship names is definitely correct, you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it.
All characters in the old canon - TV series and EoE (as well as various spinoffs pre-rebuild era) are named after WWII era warships.

In NTE canon, it's the same with cold war era vessels. Asuka's old name didn't fit that naming scheme and as such, the name was changed.
Another reason this was done is to signify something that a lot of people still don't get - that the movies are a seperate entity from the show.

More in-depth analysis here
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:16 pm

I feel like something weird is being implied to the effect of a common origin for all three -namis. The most obvious thread in common would be the Artificial Evolution Laboratory, where both Yui and a woman with suspicious visual similarities to both Mari and Asuka worked. Less obvious is the Fuyutsuki link, which was suggested by Shiro (an old user here) on the EGF Discord. Effectively: -nami means "wave", and "Fuyutsuki" means "winter moon". The moon is responsible for generating waves. I.e., wordplay is being utilized to suggest that Fuyutsuki has something very important to do with this whole -nami business. One element that definitely complicates things is that Yui, whose maiden name has suspiciously been changed to "Ayanami", may have never been a normal Lilin this time around; that is, Yui was some kind of augmented or artificial being. What points to this is the fact that even before she enters Eva-01, she is generating not one but TWO halos (an over-the-head one and a behind-the-back one). Not even Eva-01 generates two halos (at least, not until Rei is absorbed)! Quite the mystery going on there.

I strongly suspect that Asuka and Mari are half-sisters (the woman in the photo being their parent in common) created to house the souls of two of the Adams, and to serve as Eva pilots for European Nerv branches. Their kinship will end up being the thing that explains why configuring Eva-02 for Mari was so simple. Two possible scenarios here that I can think of: Nerv has the ability to copy souls (ergo Mari/Asuka Mom's soul can exist in as many Eva cores as they like), or souls are capable of multilocation under certain conditions (which has the same result, but the mechanism is quite different). Leaning toward the latter because there's actually stuff in the films directly implying the existence of such phenomena. Furthermore, Anima, which NTE takes a number of cues from, has Kyoko's soul bilocating inside two different Eva-02 models. (Perhaps it's not a coincidence that Asuka and Mari only pilot either production models, or unfinished what-the-fuck models.)
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Re: Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Blockio » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:18 pm

You make an interesting point, and I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I'm personally not convinced of the Fuyutsuki part, with what evidence we currently have, it feels a bit too thin for me to fully buy into it.
Not saying you're wrong, just that I'll wait until more information comes out

The Asuka/Mari part however, I can get behind
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:19 pm

The moon-waves thing was just something I couldn't get out of my head once I heard it -- like, "well, fuck, how did we never notice that before?" In NGE, we only have Rei Ayanami, and FuyuTSUKI refers to her as the product of his despair -- implying that he played a big role in her creation. Moon -> waves. Now in NTE, we have not just Rei Ayanami, but Asuka Shikinami, Mari Makinami, and Yui Ayanami. There's something weird about all of them; two of them have had their names changed from NGE to fit the "nami" scheme. There are hints that Fuyutsuki's expose in Q is just the warm-up for an expanded role; he was definitely present at the AEL, which is the common thread between the -namis; and he's old enough to have been involved with Yui's potentially-engineered origins too.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

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Re: Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Blockio » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:05 am

I completely forgot about the Q interaction when writing that last response, in the context of that, this seems a lot more likely.
I'm blanking on what the AEL was again right now, I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the Auto Exposure Lock fature on a camera, lol.

As for Yui - interesting observation, and not at all unlike Fuyutsuki, I can see something like that - although it does make his obsession with her even creepier

EDIT: Nevermind the AEL part, I just had the bright idea of looking for it in our wiki instead of just Google.
I'm a tad out of practise on NTE lore, what was the connection between Asuka and Mari with the Artificial Evolution Lab again?
Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)
What about titty-ten? ~ Reichu
The movies function on their own terms. If people can't accept them on those terms, and keep expecting them to be NGE, then they probably should have realized a while ago that they weren't going to have a good time. ~ Words of wisdom courtesy of Reichu

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Re: Ayanami, Shikinami and Makinami

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:56 pm

What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!


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