Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:07 pm

Godammit, I wanna see at least one of these terrible ideas fully realized at least once.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:15 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Godammit, I wanna see at least one of these terrible ideas fully realized at least once.


You might get your chance since the director seems to be blaming the CGI crew for the movies problems, not himself and it looks like its still gonna come out on time....as my loyal cinema says its coming Dec 20th this year.

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Postby Zeta_One » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:01 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Is the delay that surprising?
Warner Brothers know they have a financial bomb on their hands.

This. Godzilla (2014) and Kong: Skull Island were modest successes. While a good chunk of the fandom still seems to be in denial, King of the Monsters was basically a flop and there's no way Godzilla vs Kong would have ever seen the light of day had it not already been in late production. You can't spin a $385 million worldwide gross on a $185-$200 million budget into a success story. That's a sharp drop in every market except China and the studios only see 25% of that anyway. Godzilla: King of the Monsters only grossed $6 million more than Godzilla (1998).

And I would absolutely blame the quality of the movie before accusing critics and audiences of inherently rejecting the genre. Godzilla (2014), despite its plethora of issues in the writing department and how it wasted its acting talent, still had a remarkably solid first half and Gareth Edwards' spellbinding spectacle to somewhat redeem it. But Godzilla: King of the Monsters is an ugly, mess of a film with bad humor, an inexcusably sloppy treatment of nuclear energy, and the worst fights in a giant monster movie since Pacific Rim started the modern wave of giant monster movies several years ago. It was a misfire on every level.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:25 pm

I'd like it if we got Gareth Edwards to direct another Godzilla movie. (Or direct anything for that matter.) Jordan Vogt-Roberts was also solid for Kong Skull Island.
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Postby Chuckman » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:36 am

View Original PostZeta_One wrote: But Godzilla: King of the Monsters is an ugly, mess of a film with bad humor, an inexcusably sloppy treatment of nuclear energy, and the worst fights in a giant monster movie since Pacific Rim started the modern wave of giant monster movies several years ago.


Did you get up to pee when Godzilla body slammed Ghidora through a building? That was tight as fuck.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:45 am

KOTM 2019 is most certainly the bees knees as far as the fights are concerned, which are almost wrong enough to carry the entire movie by themselves. (Godzilla Final Wars still reigns supreme in that regard as far as I'm concerned.)

Outside of that, the film is just Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster with updated effects (which were already top-notch for the 60's,) and absolutely none of Ishiro Honda's meditations on shifting social norms, which overall makes it the weaker of the two films for me. Even if Honda doesn't say anything about Japan's changing post-war culture, his expressions of it are always appreciated. I kinda wish a Hollywood Godzilla movie had the balls to do that with American culture. Gareth Edwards came the closest with that, though, like Honda's first Godzilla movie, Edwards clearly had something slightly more pointed to say about the times that envelop him. I don't expect GvK is gonna do any of that, though. It'll be about 2 hours of (completely awesome) monster brawling set up and execution.

I really wish that WB would stop trying to make blockbuster crowd pleasers. Their focus on more filmmaker-driven projects projects was always their strong point, separating them from the rest of the studios. They just misfired in both trying to make wide-appealing crowd pleasers and in trying to get Zack Snyder to do them successfully. It's time for them to go back to their roots. Godzilla 2014 was their strongest in their Monsterverse because of its filmmaker-focused approach. WB's test-screening approach to their blockbusters is damaging them more than helping them.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:05 am

FINALLY working my way through Criterion's SHOWA ERA Boxset.
Gonna be watching two entries once a week back to back and I gotta say I'm excited.

I've seen the original I don't know how many times so revisiting that last week was just delightful.

Tonight was Godzilla Raids Again and King Kong Vs. Godzilla. I gotta admit, Raids Again got me worried about what was to come. It just dragged for me and felt a lot longer than its 81 minute runtime. It was clearly a quickie sequel rushed into production and it felt like it. The highpoint was Takashi Shimura returning for one scene. Was almost ready to call things quits and just enjoy the nice Box Art.

Then I loved every goofy second of King Kong Vs. Godzilla! I watched the Japanese version of the film - weirdly the American version is the one in the collection but the original Japanese version is available as a Special Feature on the 8th Disc - and I was just sent by the whole thing being a satire about television and media! The switch to widescreen and colors was wonderful - the transfer has some spotty moments due to the damaged negatives I'm sure where quality for certain shots drops sharply but when the transfer is good it looks amazing, the colors and set design are the best - and I loved every goofy, cartoonish moment! That Octopus! Oh boy, that Octopus! Having the Natives just be local Japanese in dark makeup is .... awkward and unpleasant, but that's been kind've a constant through all King Kong movies. Having seen almost all Kong movies, I think this is my second favorite King Kong movie after the 1933 original. I think the Ishiro Honda Godzilla movies are going to be my favorites, which is a good thing since he did more than half of the Showa Era Entries!

Looking forward to meeting the original Mothra and Ghidorah next week.

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Postby movieartman » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:16 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:FINALLY working my way through Criterion's SHOWA ERA Boxset.
Gonna be watching two entries once a week back to back and I gotta say I'm excited.


Nice, yeah Raids Again is weak for a lot of people, It's grown on me over the years.
Vs Kong & vs The Sea Monster were the first Godzilla films I ever saw as a kid. Today I still notably like Sea Monster and consider it underrated, KKvs I am largely meh about.

Hope you enjoy Mothra vs, it's widely considered the best of the Showa era. I put it as equals with the last of the era Terror of MechaGodzilla.

What do you think of the 2005 Kong remake?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:01 am

The 2005 KONG remake is very flawed - Peter Jackson is stuck in LOTR mode and trying to turn a fun simple adventure tale into an epic never really works - but the high points are great and Kong the character is the star of the film.

I think the biggest issue with the film though having revisited it a few years ago before Kong: Skull Island is how dated and effects heavy the movie is. Kong still looks great and works cause he’s a character having to give emotion but so much of the movie is people on treadmills in a studio running in place as monsters are added in post. Antiquated CG doesn’t really hold any charm for me like old practical effects do. I wish more of the movie was shot on location somewhere.

Still, I like Kong 2005. I might have been hyperbolic in saying Kong vs Godzilla was my second favorite but I just loved how goofy the movie was and the old effects hold a lot of charm for me.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:01 am

I know it’s not part of the Box Set, but watching the stand alone Mothra movie before Mothra vs Godzilla is a major emotional rollercoaster. Mothra neatly establishes Infant Island and the fairy priestesses before Mothra vs Godzilla turns it into a perilous battle between order and chaos. Both films are directed by Ishiro Honda, so it’s worth it for that alone.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:57 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:The 2005 KONG remake is very flawed - Peter Jackson is stuck in LOTR mode and trying to turn a fun simple adventure tale into an epic never really works - but the high points are great and Kong the character is the star of the film.

I think the biggest issue with the film though having revisited it a few years ago before Kong: Skull Island is how dated and effects heavy the movie is. Kong still looks great and works cause he’s a character having to give emotion but so much of the movie is people on treadmills in a studio running in place as monsters are added in post. Antiquated CG doesn’t really hold any charm for me like old practical effects do. I wish more of the movie was shot on location somewhere.

Still, I like Kong 2005. I might have been hyperbolic in saying Kong vs Godzilla was my second favorite but I just loved how goofy the movie was and the old effects hold a lot of charm for me.


As much as I like Peters Kong the biggest issue for me was the portrayal of the natives, to me its huge stumbling block and the biggest mistake Peter made as it hypes back to the people of colour are savages and animals portrayal in really racist old-time literature and even watching it in the cinema it felt so dated and wrong even back in 2005. Like I got that he was shooting the 1933 scene for scene but that whole scene needed changing period and hurts the film on rewatch.

This was a mistake I was really glad Kong skull island fixed big time regarding the natives and I think it was always a great way to modernise it and bring it into the present by having it during the Vietnam war and it is a cautionary tale of why getting fixated on war and winning can end up kill everyone involved. I also like the upcoming possible tie in that skull Island is about to become monster Island hence why Godzilla and Kong are gonna be fighting since Kong views it as his island and Godzilla and his monsters will be deemed as trespassers.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:48 pm

One of the aspects of Peter’s Kong that shows that he’s stuck in Epic Mode is spending an hour on the boat developing about 8 characters that go nowhere once they get on the island. Like, they all get some deep backstories or intense scenes, and they all either die on the island or do nothing after returning to NYC.
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Postby movieartman » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:58 am

Hey Gendo's Papa how is the dive into the Showa films going? Bet it's coming in handy with the virus lock down.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:46 pm

Had I known it was going to get so bad that I was going to be locked at home for weeks on end I would have saved the Boxset but I foolishly finished it about a month ago!

I loved it! Some of the films meld together now but all in all I enjoyed almost every one of them - i wasn't a fan of All Monsters Attack! which was somehow the longest movie I've ever seen even though it runs only 70 minutes and Godzilla Vs. Megalon never grabbed me either despite Jet Jaguar being an interesting idea - and may revisit a few during this lockdown if I need a pick me up. I preferred the Ishiro Honda entries - All Monsters Attack! aside - over the Jun Fukuda films but overall I had a great time!

I'd love to work through the Heisei and Millennium era films but when I looked online without having to buy physical discs I could only find them dubbed and that I just can't do. I know I wouldn't be able to fully appreciate the films if I had to listen to them in a dubbed language. I would prefer not to resort to piracy cause I don't do that anymore SO if anyone knows of a paid streaming service or even a place to rent them online in the original language I'd be very appreciative.

On the bright side, the boxset of Hideaki Anno's Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water has been sitting on my shelf untouched for months and last night I started it for the first time since I don't know when.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:43 am

All Monsters Attack! is a very rough film to watch, and I don't blame anyone for disliking it. I remember hating it, even when watching it as a young child. But the more I learned about that film, the more I appreciated it. It's not that I think the movie is good now (I still think it's pretty bad,) but I can enjoy certain aspects of that film.

For one, that movie was made for a children's film festival in Japan that featured all sorts of monster movies. The fact that the studio even let Ishiro Honda shoot new footage for that movie (even some new special effect footage) is kind of impressive for what it is. Also, movies like All Monsters Attack, which were seen as mostly disposable as they were being made for a small film festival and nothing else, rarely get to see international distribution. So the fact that we actually got to see this movie internationally released with professional dub work is kind of a unique rarity in and of itself. (Could you imagine if this film had been lost, like these types of films normally are, and rumors of a lost Godzilla film plagued the fandom for decades? Only for it to be found decades later and we discovered that it was All Monsters Attack!? That would have been so painfully anti-climactic.)

Child actor Tomonori Yazaki does a great job as Ichiro Mitsuki. He doesn't come off as a "producer's kid" or anything like that. His character feels natural and believable, and it feels as though Tomonori Yazaki took his craft as an actor very seriously for the role.

And, finally, I always felt like one of the main trademarks of Ishiro Honda as director was his commentary, reflection, or even his meditation on post-war Japan within his Godzilla films. In King Kong vs Godzilla Honda criticizes hyper-capitalism as performed by sensationalist TV broadcast studios, in both of his Mothra movies (Mothra and Mothra vs Godzilla) Honda criticizes late-capitalism and features a giant moth coming in to literally destroy the economic infrastructure built on mans' greed, and in his first two Ghidorah movies (Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster and Invasion of Astro-Monster) he explores two different kinds of adult sibling relationships where one or both of the parents have died for some reason in the past. (The deaths could have been for any reason, but I feel as though a lot of children of WWII can relate to these stories when these films came out in their adulthood.) All Monsters Attack! certainly has Ishiro Honda's deepest dive into yet another critique in Japan's late-capitalist tendencies, which came at a point where Japan was in its worst economic recessions in decades. Both of Ichiro's parents have to work jobs so they can afford to live in (what seems to be) the shitty part of town, and Ichiro's latchkey kid lifestyle caused by the poor economic conditions is in part of what leads to him getting kidnapped by two burglars to begin with. So Ishiro Honda's most scathing commentary on Japan's performance of capitalism seems to be hidden away in some disposable film for a children's films festival, and I find that wild to a certain degree. In fact, I feel like All Monsters Attack! seems closer to an Ishiro Honda Godzilla movie that Destroy All Monsters. As endlessly satisfying as it is to see Godzilla and his monster buddies finally kill King Ghidorah, the film itself doesn't have any of Ishiro Honda's trademark focus on Japanese lifestyle. Destroy All Monsters feels more like a Jun Fukuda Godzilla movie that it does an Ishiro Honda movie, and I'm beginning to think that Toho simply hired Ishiro Honda to recapture the marketing surrounding the admittedly better Godzilla films Honda directed in the 50's and 60's.

Despite all that, All Monsters Attack! still sucks as a movie. The fact that it got international distribution isn't as interesting without that context of it being a disposable children's film festival entry, the movie is made up of a bunch of the least impressive special effects reused from many of Jun Fukuda's Godzilla films, and that Godzilla suit in the clips from Son of Godzilla looks weird and out of place compared to the rest of the Godzilla suits featured in the movie. (And, let's be real, a kid dreaming about Godzilla is the least compelling plot element in any Godzilla film ever made.) It's still not a fun movie to watch, but, looking back at it, I'm glad I watched it and I appreciate the thought and effort that was put into the movie. (Some efforts that were mysteriously lacking in Honda's Destroy All Monsters.)

PS - Watching the animated Godzilla movies on Netflix is part of what made me appreciate these aspects of All Monsters Attack!. Those animated movies are so bad that literally anything else looks better by comparison. Also, if you can find it, the English dub of All Monsters Attack! (called Godzilla's Revenge, I think) is much better simply for not having the annoying song at the beginning of the film, though you do lose part of Tomonori Yazaki's performance in the process.
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Postby Thuktun Flishithy » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:12 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:As much as I like Peters Kong the biggest issue for me was the portrayal of the natives, to me its huge stumbling block and the biggest mistake Peter made as it hypes back to the people of colour are savages and animals portrayal in really racist old-time literature and even watching it in the cinema it felt so dated and wrong even back in 2005. Like I got that he was shooting the 1933 scene for scene but that whole scene needed changing period and hurts the film on rewatch.

Holy fuck yes, I'm glad other people share my opinion about Jackson's depiction of the Skull Islanders. FFS, he somehow managed to make it even worse than the original 1933 movie- at least in that one they're shown with a degree of sympathy when Kong razes their village, whereas in the 2005 movie they're depicted as inhuman brutes, more like Jackson's depiction of Orcs than any real culture. The bit where they focus on the kid grinning like a sociopath while Ann's being offered to Kong comes to mind. Hell, I could've sworn some supplementary materials claimed that the people living on the island had become a separate species from humanity, which only makes it even worse.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:17 pm

View Original PostThuktun Flishithy wrote:Holy fuck yes, I'm glad other people share my opinion about Jackson's depiction of the Skull Islanders. FFS, he somehow managed to make it even worse than the original 1933 movie- at least in that one they're shown with a degree of sympathy when Kong razes their village, whereas in the 2005 movie they're depicted as inhuman brutes, more like Jackson's depiction of Orcs than any real culture. The bit where they focus on the kid grinning like a sociopath while Ann's being offered to Kong comes to mind. Hell, I could've sworn some supplementary materials claimed that the people living on the island had become a separate species from humanity, which only makes it even worse.


Yeah the kid gets to me to as well as the way they offer Ann up like the framing is just so terrible and the irony is could forgive the 1933 version because of the different film period and for the points you mentioned but I can't forgive Peter for this error because he knew better there were years of people speaking out against blackface and these kinds of racist depictions even in 2005 Hollywood yet he still went ahead and filmed it.

This is why Skull Island in my view is the best version because it fixes this issue on so many levels and I'm really hopeful this will now follow through into Godzilla vs Kong as it original 1963 version is problematic as well but it's more along the lines of the natives being a funny joke than Peter's inhuman animal version. Hopefully, it will be done in the same way as Skull Island and it will finally put this issue to bed and mean no one will be dumb enough to repeat it ever again in the US franchise or any reboots decades from now if it's revisited.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:53 am

Yeah, even in the original King Kong and King Kong vs Godzilla you have a lot of humanizing moments with the native islanders. Sure, the Godzilla movie shows the islanders as being a bit more silly than the 1933 films, but the movie shows everyone as being relatively silly when it comes to their interactions with hyper capitalism and materialism. The Peter Jackson video has no humanization, not does it frame the portrayal of the islanders as being under the thumb of foreign hyper capitalism or materialism. They all feel demonized, like Jackson's still making non-whites look like orcs like he did in LOTR or something.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:01 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Yeah, even in the original King Kong and King Kong vs Godzilla you have a lot of humanizing moments with the native islanders. Sure, the Godzilla movie shows the islanders as being a bit more silly than the 1933 films, but the movie shows everyone as being relatively silly when it comes to their interactions with hyper capitalism and materialism. The Peter Jackson video has no humanization, not does it frame the portrayal of the islanders as being under the thumb of foreign hyper capitalism or materialism. They all feel demonized, like Jackson's still making non-whites look like orcs like he did in LOTR or something.


I'm generally interested to see how fantasy movies are going to change going forward as D and D have just said they will be updating the rules books going forward in the 5th edition (I don't expect Warhammer to do the same as there so out of touch and won't fix their long-standing lack of women or racism issues or everyone being white in 40k problem they keep promising then not following through in any meaningful way) but D and D's new rules are to end the deal with orcs as evil races and their idea od certain races being evil by default and it means going forward the whole fantasy world could be very different in film and media and books.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7103563/dungeons-dragons-evil-race-stereotypes/

I didn't notice this in LOTR till you guys pointed it out...and it's really shocking and your right all the Uruk-hai are played by people of colour which is really troubling. Also my bad for off topic...but I do feel this is important to make since it will change D and D forever going forward and mean people who pull that same crap as Peter will get into serious trouble and be called out way faster.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:10 am

If anyone's interested in checking out Ultraman, Moviespree (from official western distributor Mill Creek) is having a sale for Ultraman Day: https://www.moviespree.com/ultraman You can get each complete series (sans movies) for $7.10 USD!

I'd highly recommend the original Ultraman and Ultraseven, especially if you're interested in seeing some of Anno's influences.
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