I'm all about f**k those countries and their backwards ass homophobia. But kinda f**k Netflix for not taking the time to actually create comprehensive localizations too, if they were indeed worried about offending certain countries.

There's like over 50 heavily LGBTQ titles on Netflix, I doubt a cartoon character saying that he loves another even comes close.

Mr. Tines wrote:From Dan Kanemitsu's twitter

I really like Dan's position, he understands how it's necessary to keep the meaning from the original text. Very professional about it, too.

"We have the rights to all of the classic Stanley Kubrick films, but he sometimes used Rachmaninoff and other still-copyrighted music. What should we do? The additional licensing shouldn't be too bad."

"Just cut it. Replace it with silence."

"Are you sure? This doesn't seem right."

"Just do it."

Just pointing out, in the Spanish dub the scene goe slike this:

KAWORU: Hay corazones frágiles como un cristal, como el tuyo, Shinji [there are hearts fragile as glass, like yours, Shinji]
Shinji: ¿De verdad? [There are?//Really?//Is that so?]
KAWORU: Si, eres digno de mi afinidad [Yes, you are worthy of my affinity]
Shinji: ¿Qué dices? [What are you saying?//What do you mean?]
KAWORU: Te amo, Shinji [I love you, Shinji]

The talk at the end with Misato is different, though:
Shinji: Kaworu me dijo que soy atractivo [Kaworu told me I'm attractive/handsome]
Me dijo que me amaba [He said that he loved me]
Es la primera vez que alguien me dice algo como eso [It was the first time somebody said something like that to me]
Era un niño como yo. Y como Rei. Yo lo amaba [He was a boy like me. And like Rei. I loved him.]

That the series has barely been up for a day and people are already finding things to bitch about is honestly depressing. Tines' quoted post was IMO spot-on; context and intentional ambiguity is key with Eva. And besides, Studio Khara's in-house translator might mean these lines were "Anno-approved" for all we know. (I mean, purely hypothetical.)

Didn't Kanemitsu's work on Funimation's 3.0 subtitles/translation elicit similar ire (KawoShin or otherwise), or am I remembering how Funi translated things for the theatrical run? (Their original dub had some gems like, "He's not an idiot, he's an asshole!")

I would like to point out that the like/love thing extends into other scenes as well - at least into the final scene of episode 26 (I'm sure you know the line I'm referring to).

Sailor Star Dust wrote:That the series has barely been up for a day and people are already finding things to bitch about is honestly depressing.

I think the only people bitching are those who know the old dub and subs, and somehow feel outraged that they have changed. Well, get real, those people - no one is stopping you from continuing to use the old versions that you know and love (and maybe used to bitch about, who knows?). And after all, the old dub/sub is secondary to the Japanese, just as the new ones are. The level of outrage I've seen some people express reminds me of those people who appear to think the bible was written in English by King James in 1611.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:That the series has barely been up for a day and people are already finding things to bitch about is honestly depressing. Tines' quoted post was IMO spot-on; context and intentional ambiguity is key with Eva. And besides, Studio Khara's in-house translator might mean these lines were "Anno-approved" for all we know. (I mean, purely hypothetical.)

Didn't Kanemitsu's work on Funimation's 3.0 subtitles/translation elicit similar ire (KawoShin or otherwise), or am I remembering how Funi translated things for the theatrical run? (Their original dub had some gems like, "He's not an idiot, he's an asshole!")

Dude, just remove Komm, süsser Tod if it has licensing issues. It's just a small budget issue, right? Maybe Arianne doesn't want to take Netflix money?? Who cares about a little song replacement? I mean, even Cruel Angel's Thesis doesn't really matter, right? Who cares about art preservation or iconic music? We have to defend these multi-billion dollar corporations when they mutilate our most beloved works, because they might not butcher other works in the future if we don't pay them.

eldomtom2 wrote:I would like to point out that the like/love thing extends into other scenes as well - at least into the final scene of episode 26 (I'm sure you know the line I'm referring to).

Kaworu uses entirely different terms, and the line is very clearly in the plural:

"What are the two of you in my heart?"
"*We* are the hope... *together* with the words "I love you" "

And remember, they are there as primarily Adam and Lilith, not Kaworu and Rei. And right afterwards, Shinji contests this as "pretense", because at least in the real world he will know his feelings are real.

The Shinji/Kaworu thing is a weird disambiguation they decided to go for. I understand their point but I don't think it's necessary because a lot of people are aware that it's possible that there was no romantic meaning to it. It's not like a ton of people were calling Sam and Frodo gay lovers despite them saying they love each other(jokes and memes aside). Although I guess it's easier to do with Eva with the context of previous scenes.
In either case people suggesting that it was changed due to some agenda or changing it for international(more homophobic or whatever) wider audience appeal are going for quite a stretch especially since Netflix is involved and they definitely don't shy away(and generally promote) LGBT topics with plenty of original content focusing on it even.

FelipeFritschF wrote:Kaworu uses entirely different terms, and the line is very clearly in the plural:

"What are the two of you in my heart?"
"*We* are the hope... *together* with the words "I love you" "

And remember, they are there as primarily Adam and Lilith, not Kaworu and Rei. And right afterwards, Shinji contests this as "pretense", because at least in the real world he will know his feelings are real.

I think eldomtom2 meant this one:

Shinji and the others say "I can learn to like myself" instead of "love myself." The conversation between Shinji, Kaworu and Rei in EoE goes like this in the new subs:

Shinji: I don't mind. But who are you two inside my heart?
Rei: We're hope. The hope that people might understand one another.
Kaworu: And say the words, "I love you."

Let’s face it, loving himself was part of his problem, nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Also, in response to this outrage, I command you all to riot.

Edit: I’m actually really pissed.

@Clover: Uhh, you're quoting the wrong person. My post there was discussing the translation, not any music issues?

I think people seem to concentrate too much on this specific love/like line as if it alone completely dispells any possibility of romantic/sexual attraction between Kaworu/Shinji. Out of context the difference seems huge but it's not like the other scenes with intimate tension between them are erased. Even the 'like' can be interpreted as more than platonic in this situation. Again, I don't think it's the better option it's just really not as huge of a deal to me as people seem to make out of it. It's like people complaining that Toji says 'congrats bro' in this translation.

Still no excuse for the 'grace' line however. It's one of several lines('lowest of the low', 'does she still make a fool of herself in bed' come to mind) that are a bit awkward as if they were not written by a proper native speaker.

Not particularly, using "like" just makes it far clearer how the original script invites far more varied interpretations than "he showed up and he's so perfect and loves Shinji so much". It's a deliberately ambiguous line in Japanese, and "like" is far more ambiguous as well.

"Grace" is super weird though. It pushes the godly angle way too much. I think "sympathy" worked just fine.

It's especially weird that he says that on the beach at the end of the episode. It's straight up changing the line. He said "Kaworu said he liked/loved me". The whole grace thing is in the scene of them in the bath earlier where Kaworu says that to him after musing about the nature of humans/suffering. It made some sense there(although it would probably be much better if the translation was "I admire you"/"You have my admiration" or something) but why refer to that line and change the actual line at the beach?

Sailor Star Dust wrote:That the series has barely been up for a day and people are already finding things to bitch about is honestly depressing

Indeed, there is a fine line between bitching and commenting/criticizing.
You cannot deny, however, that many of the people here (myself included) are long-standing Evangelion fans accustomed to examine (for not saying nitpick) and analyze every single frame, line of dialogue and musical cue the series has. Many have been doing so sin 199X.
To me, the very idea that the series keeps giving things to talk about is not depressing. So far we have been relatively civil about the discussion (I mean, no one has been banned!).

Now, I do not find outrageous the choices of the new dub, and many of the changes are valid ones. Hell, many of them are not deal-breakers, not even together. But for the amount of publicity and pomp given by Netflix, the prestige the series has and the watchful eyes of the world on top of them you'd expect them to have done the best job possible.

Perhaps we are simply all too used to the old dub to appreciate the new one. I think the script changes are generally an improvement, I just don't like the new voices.

The many new fans that will be coming over won't realise the difference, however.

No Fly Me To The Moon is a deal breaker for me. It's like Blue Velvet without In Dreams.