Netflix Release General Discussion

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby JB2448 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:32 am

I made a dedicated thread about the soundtrack release so it doesn't derail conversation here.
thread/19825
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Postby Tumbling Down » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:35 am

I notice they changed Toji saying "You know you're a real pain in the ass, don't ya?" to "You know you're a real slave to your passions, don't ya?"

Is this version of the line more accurate?

I do notice it has a double meaning, intentionally or otherwise. Yes, Kensuke is a slave to his "passions," in the sense that he's a slave to things he's interested in, but Toji is also a slave to his "passions," in the sense that he's a slave to his emotional impulses. That's why he punched Shinji, twice.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby Ornette » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:04 am

The decision to nix Fly Me To the Moon may have something to do with the streaming format. The next episode is queued up as soon as the ED starts and I think it auto plays in like 15 seconds? Most people probably just jump right to the next episode anyways. I skip the OP every time because it gave me a button to and even if they had FMttM, I'd skip the the next episode right away. Sucks they didn't include it when it's part of the Japanese region release, and that it also meant it's not included in certain episodes. But it's no loss for me, and probably not for new viewers watching it on the Netflix format for the first time.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:17 am

Now here's something especially interesting on a translation note (I didn't see this mentioned yet, sorry if it was). To clarify I'm watching the JP audio. I'll check out the new English dub sometime down the road.



EDIT: David Fleming is the subtitle editor. The name sounds familiar but I can't place it.

Definitely an interesting translation for the subs, haha :sweatdrop:



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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby pearisdriving » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:20 am

Even if you don't care about the ED not having it or ANY music in the Misato/Kaji park scene in 15 and the last scene of episode 21 is a pretty big loss to anyone. Serious downgrade in both of those instances. It boggles my mind. They have plenty songs from the OST they could play there even if they couldn't get Fly me to the moon

Regarding the above. Did Dan grow up in the US or did he only go to college and live there briefly? Because some of the lines seem a bit awkward. Not that the translations are inaccurate but they just kind of sound unnatural. Although I myself am not a native English speaker so it could just be my imagination.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:01 am

The soundtrack omission makes me think that it's the words the rights holders want to protect, more than the music; otherwise it makes no sense.
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:15 am

The lack of Fly Me to the Moon is honestly so tragic. It's not deal breaker, but it definitely taints the experience new viewers would otherwise have.
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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:53 am

Ok, short opinion on the Latin American Spanish Dub, if someone is interested

SPOILER: Show
Shinji, Rei, Fuyutsuki and Hyugaa are the same as the 90's, the rest were replaced.
I've always have a soft spot for Shinji's VA, he managed to portray him very well. Rei always sounded too... Lively. Not that she does not deliver her lines in monotone, but in that she lacks that soft-spoken tone the original has.

The new Misato I can grow accustomed to. She is different to the VA from the Rebuild dub. She is lively, but at all times. The serious lines of Misato sound forced.
Asuka... Well... She tried... Latin dub has this horrible tendency to have Asuka speak with a German-ish accent. IMO only the original one did so reasonably good. This one sounds like someone covered her nose while she was speaking on top of having to fake the German accent.
The new Ritsuko was a nice replacement. She was originally voiced by an older woman, so she sounded collected and wise at all times, but the voice did not match the character's age much. The new one sounds OK, and much younger.
New Gendo I love, he sounds not as deep, but still menacing and commander-ish.
New Kaworu has the same problem as Rei. The original VA gave him this ethereal, otherworldly tone that really matched the character. This ones sounds too lively.

Now, for the dub itself.
Its great! All the background technobabble is there, and the editors did a great job matching lip movement without altering dialogue too much.
Fly me to the moon is gone in here too.
Pen Pen is not referred to as a penguin, just a "hot water bird".
SEELE is pronounced properly. The original one used "sea-lly"...
Evangelion is pronounced Evan-Jelly-on... I prefer the strong "G" /x/, but that's just me...
AF Field is translated both as "Escudo AT" (AT shield ) and "Campo AT" (AT field)... The AT Shield thing stems from the original dub, I dunno why they used that one. But alternate between the two, even within the same chapter and just lines apart, is just madness!
Some lines sound mixed up. Like they spliced two different takes together.

EoE... Well... They made some questionable choices:
Key lines:
Kimochi warui: how disgusting.
Shinji's' "I'm so fucked up": I'm so disgusting.
Gendo's silent line: silent (thankfully)
The Misato-Shinji scene in the elevator was OK until Shinji said some weird lines, basically making it sound like "I'm not worthy of piloting the Eva because I have hurt people" instead of "I can't pilot the Eva because I will hurt people". Also "you are a stranger to me! You can't possibly understand me" instead of "you are NOT me, you don't understand me". Misatos lines after that are very weird-sounding, too.
To be fair, the pseudo hallucination in Lilith during 3I is confusing, but the dub made it worse. Some things were translated literally and as a result, they make little sense in Spanish or even when in context with surrounding lines.
The Shinji-Asuka scene in the kitchen... Awful... Just awful... Shinji's "only you can help me" is, for some reason, translated as "you are the love of my life" :cringe: .
The Rei-Shinji-Kaworu exchange at the end of 3I is faithful, but sounds forced.
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Netflix Eva translation thoughts?

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Postby 3k6 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:05 pm

So, I hate to be that guy, but I've seen quite a bit of discussion about the retranslation of the scenes between Kaworu and Shinji going around. I've been trying to get the original scripts to my own investigation, but I'm also curious if anyone has any thoughts on it lol

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby TBsq » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:36 pm

What I really want to know is how the picture quality of EoE compares to the Japanese Blu-Ray?

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby Ikarus Onesun » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:03 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:The soundtrack omission makes me think that it's the words the rights holders want to protect, more than the music; otherwise it makes no sense.


From what I understand, global licensing agreements and regional licensing agreements are two different issues. Since this is a worldwide release, the licensing for all regions was probably too problematic (and likely too expensive) to make it worthwhile. Apparently the Netflix Japan release still includes FMTTM in the credits, but that would seem to be under a regional licensing arrangement.

FWIW, songs are generally copyrighted in their entirety; there are no separate rights for the music and the lyrics.

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Re: Netflix Eva translation thoughts?

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:25 pm

View Original Post3k6 wrote:So, I hate to be that guy, but I've seen quite a bit of discussion about the retranslation of the scenes between Kaworu and Shinji going around. I've been trying to get the original scripts to my own investigation, but I'm also curious if anyone has any thoughts on it lol


Ehhhh. Original Japanese gives a lot of room for interpretation for godly love, intimate friendship and all sorts of things. But translating "koui" as "worthy of my grace" is super weird. It feels way too close to the godly angle, not ambiguous enough. But I think "like" works better because it also encompasses friendship, appreciation, or "like-like".

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:28 pm

I think which translation you prefer depends on how you wish to interpret Shinji/Kaworu.
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Postby Joseki » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:37 pm

As I wrote on Discord the italian dub is a dumpster fire.

Incomprehensible grammar, horrible adaptation choices, voice actors that were pissed at the script and half assed their job, wrong editing in a few scenes too.


3/10 and I'm generous. Fly Me to the Moon missing is really bad too.
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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:45 pm

View Original PostTBsq wrote:What I really want to know is how the picture quality of EoE compares to the Japanese Blu-Ray?


Not the same... Crisper than DVD, but worse than the 1080p Blu-Ray rip I don't have because it's illegal ( :wink: :wink: )...
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:51 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Now here's something especially interesting on a translation note (I didn't see this mentioned yet, sorry if it was). To clarify I'm watching the JP audio. I'll check out the new English dub sometime down the road.



From Dan Kanemitsu's twitter




Quoting the last for everyone who's locked down their browser, regarding the change in some of the KawoShin dialog in the new subs

Image

It is one thing for characters to confess their love. It is quite another for the audience to infer affection and leave them guessing. How committed are the characters? What possible misunderstandings might be talking place? Leaving room for interpretation make things exciting.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:08 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Image

It is one thing for characters to confess their love. It is quite another for the audience to infer affection and leave them guessing. How committed are the characters? What possible misunderstandings might be talking place? Leaving room for interpretation make things exciting.


Tumblr and Twitter are just gonna have a field day with this because some will be you cut out the bi/gay subtext so its "No Homo" and in this case I have to agree with them, its really problematic and its looks backwoods stepping rather than progressive.
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:12 pm

I like interpretations, but changing it from "love" robs it of some gravitas, that Shinji killed the first person to vocalize those feelings was a massive push to his eventual breakdown. I like the vulnerability the word's use brings for Shinji, what it implies between the two, and has long been among my favorite aspects NGE.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:30 pm

Much of the Kaworu translation alterations are okay except for that “worthy of grace” line. That’s just weird and alien feeling.

As for the like vs love debate, Kaworu saying “like” instead of “love” doesn’t take away from any gay/bisexual subtext. It just means that Kaworu isn’t a Disney prince that’ll marry someone after knowing them for 2 days. “Like” has just as much sexual connotations as “Love.” (And who knows, maybe Kaworu saw enough in Shinji to actually love him after knowing him for only 2 days.)

But what it does take away from the narrative are the more broader themes of love. Kaworu showing Shinji that someone can love him in Ep 24 flows seamlessly into Shinji leaning to love himself in Ep 25 and 26. Shinji learning to like himself doesn’t carry as much weight to it as as Shinji learning to love himself. Kaworu merely saying “I like you,” kinda makes Shinji’s quest to love himself feel like it came outta left field. (You know, more than those episodes already do.)

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:44 pm

The translation of some of the Kaworu + Shinji material is Netflix just playing politics and business. They're streaming NGE now in over 190 countries and regrettably a lot of those countries have violent & homophobic anti-LGBT laws & censorship. In some of the countries NGE is now streaming in people are being jailed or killed simply because of their sexuality.

I don't like a lot about how they do business and I especially don't like how they treat art but that's Netflix. It takes a lot of dealing, a lot of looking the other, a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of savvy marketing and a lot of making subtle changes + concessions to the work they're streaming to become an entertainment service readily available on almost the entire planet.


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