What would you change about Evangelion?

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Blockio » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:08 pm

I don't know if I posted here before (if I did, chances are it's ages ago and way off from my view now, so it wouldn't matter anyway), but here I go:
The main thing I would change is give a little more attention to Toji, Kensuke and Hikari/the bridge bunnies for one, and treat Evas that don't wear the numbers 00, 01 or 02 on their sleeve with more significance than just another plot device that only really matters for one or two episodes and after that only plays a vague role in the Seele shenanigans, if at all. Same goes for some of the action arc angels... some of those really could have been two-parters. Generally, more runtime to focus on aspects of the world that were only tangentially shown
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:17 pm

If you wanted to be hyperrealistic, all of the kids would be notably uglier. 14 is the bullseye age for pubescent awkwardness.
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Postby Amalgam429 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:41 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:D&R is pretty much forced, unless the change includes the heroic effort needed to get EoE out on the original schedule.

Personally, I think we could stand to lose the DC material, with associated reductions in shipping material in EoE. And in similar vein, use a tightened up version of the alternate live action scene just to keep everyone off balance.


I haven't seen DR, but I've seen all of the directors cuts. Am I missing out on anything?
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:29 am

There are some interludes where the characters are gearing up for a concert, which form an extra-canonical framing device; otherwise you're down to the details of which exact bit of re-reanimation and editing appear in the various versions of Death.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:24 am

View Original PostAmalgam429 wrote:Am I missing out on anything?

I would definitely watch it at least once, for the unique footage (some of it providing information and context available nowhere else) and for the thematic juxtapositions that Masayuki chooses to make.
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:04 pm

Also for the beautiful staff roll at the end.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Ghdust » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:46 pm

Eva is perfect as it is, however....

God would be an actual, tangible being in the Eva-verse, similar to Truth in FMA:B or... God in Devilman. In the show’s history, instead of going to the Moon, the discovery of “God” was mankind’s greatest achievement in 1969.

Raziel would be the first Angel faced by mankind instead of Sachiel. The Angel would’ve attacked in 2014. It was destroyed using the Spear of Cassius (Adam’s spear) however the weapon was lost in the process.

NERV (in the eyes of the public) was created by the UN to find a way to stop the coming Angels without the spear.


There would be two additional episodes.

  • New!Episode 18 would see Toji actually pilot Unit 03 in combat with the Angel Shateiel.
  • The events of the old E18 would now occur in E19.
  • Unit 03 would get infected by Bardiel during a sync-ratio test.
  • Like in the manga, Shinji would be forced to kill Toji rather than merely cripple him.
  • Shinji would go apeshit and attempt to destroy NERV HQ, almost succeeding until Gendo turns up the LCL pressure.
  • Rather than being immediately killed off, New!Episode 24 would see Kaworu pilot Unit 02 in combat with the Angel Iblis.
  • Asuka would attempt to kill Kaworu; possibly out of jealousy, possibly because she somehow knew his true nature, possibly both, and fail. Shinji, enraged that she would attempt to kill the only person who cares about him, gives her a "The Reason You Suck" Speech that causes her to breakdown and run away from NERV, eventually ending up in that rusty bathtub.
  • E24 would reveal that the Angels base their appearance on the first thing they see when they are “born”, mostly deep-sea life or inanimate objects, or in the case of Iblis, a turtle.
  • The events of old E24 would now happen in E25.

Instead of being the first third of EOE, I would replace Rebirth with the ending described in the Proposal, that being:

  • The 12 strongest Angels would descend from the moon, utterly wreck America’s shit, and cause mankind to fall into mass panic.
  • In this ending the Angels win, and the audience would get to see what their version of Third Impact looks like. The planet would be *reborn* in a sense.
  • Similar to what Shamsiel-kun suggested, the violence would be turned up to Genocyber/Akira levels, every single named character would die in a horrific, gory, and intentionally unsatisfying way.
  • These twelve Angels would look like something out of Junji-Ito’s fever dreams.
  • Evangelion: Rebirth would be entirely in black and white like the final episodes of Gunbuster.


This ending wouldn’t be canonical though.

In EOE:

  • GNR would be the Zeroth Angel, and given a name, Artiya'il, remover of human grief.
  • Rather than just NERV personnel, the audience gets to see everyone getting tanged. Hikari meeting Touji again, an American family hiding in a shelter watching the events on the news, a starving boy in India seeing his dead mother one last time, airplanes falling out of the sky, and city streets filled with empty cars.


Less serious shit:

* Misato and Kaji actually fuck on screen in episode 20, I was promised service dammit

* Get an actual member of The Beatles to sing Komn Susser Tod

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby snow344 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:12 pm

View Original PostGhdust wrote:* Get an actual member of The Beatles to sing Komn Susser Tod

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1AKDWqMC2nQ
Ode to joy.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Rei IV » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:23 pm

I would add another 26 episodes to series focusing on characters (and their dynamics with one another) and expand on some Eva mythos. With that, Rei would have a much bigger role (and not a mere plot device) and we get could some more depth with secondary characters, at least IMHO. Also, it gives an excuse for the kids do things that don't revolve around the damn Eva.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby orcot » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:43 am

Keep the ending as open as possible and when you have to introducing some new character, choose mana(girlfriend of steel) over mari.
Also might aswel introduce the (cannon) introduction of the game NGE2 involving how lilith and adam came to settle the earth
I basicly wrte it out but it would be to long and to boring to read a wall of text.

So here are the major changes
Evangelions:
Unit 00
Unit 00 is notoriously buggy. I would make 00 left handed whilst Rei is obviously right handed. Whilst it is not obviously stated either a part of Rei's soul is used inside unit 00. Or Rei has a split personality and has confirmed visual halucinations. Unit00 will go beserk in an attempt to safe Rei(II) during armisael attack it won't work tough.
Is ultimatly killed by a N2 mine.

Unit 01
Unit 01 is clearly a ark, and you can't make that obvious with only Yui inside. As a result Yui has collected most of the students missing parents inside her. Something that will become obvious during Leliel's attack. Whilst nothing concrete is shown Yui will charm leliel in giving it's S2 engine.
By the end of evangelion notable souls will be Leliel, kaworu and Rei. Eva 01 will never go beserk without a power source.

Unit 02
no change

Unit 03
no change

Unit 04
makes a cameo in episode 06

Jet Alone
Bigger role. Owner wants to take power away from Gendo and wants to use Jet alone in combination with the spear of longinus. Gendo still sabotages the project but the spear is lost in the ocean. So he switches to supporting the unit, to retrieve the spear. He insist on a pilot Mana kirishima is choosen. Jet alone assist in the defeat of matarael (a mobile power source) and is destroyed by sandalphon

Spear of longinus
starts of in america not antartica salvaged on a not seen event, is send to Japan together with Unit 02 in a trade for sachiels core. Is lost in the deep during the fight with gaghiel near a geothermal vent (implied to be the site of first life on earth). Is retrieved by unit 02 afther a failed attempt by Jet alone. Will follow the general story from there.



Children:

Rei:
lives is a partialy abandonend boarding school, that might have a secret underground shelter and secret way into NERV headquaters that going to be a subplot of several episodes.
Mostly follows the Manga version of Rei. Rei get's character develoment during the appropriate times. But get's one last character develoment afther arming the N2 mine. Unit 00 goes beserk and the Rei inside has a short conversation with Rei(II) it ends with Rei II wanting to live and Unit 00 ejecting her entry plug, over the hill top. Rei survives the initial explosion but dies in the hospital.

Perhaps a final deviation, afther Rei has gathered all the souls. Rei is perhaps surpised in meeting herself gathering her own soul. (she gets a choise of her own but that would take to long to explain. Yes this wouldn't work with her giant naked Rei phase and final instrumentality but can be dealt with)

The fly me to the moon ending credit is resong everytime by Rei's voice actor end a episode where Rei might be humming it to herself and follow with the end credits

Asuka:
Essentialy the same but more sympathetic, with a clearer source from her frustrations. It will end the same tough.
Always have the adult respons but quickly returns childlike when things do not go her way then angry and agressive.
Is not present on the carrier during the attack of gaghiel. Flies over in stead and has to deal with Rei and later Kensuke, toji and hikari.
elevator scene is replaced by Rei brushing up on her german whilst Asuka brushes up on her Japanese writing iconic as it is Rei reading(passive) whils Asuka is writing(active) in total silence for almost a minute could be different enough to still be enjoyable. It also works for the introduction of Rei III who's reading out to a comatose Asuka when Shinji and kaworu find her.

Shinji:
Looking back more of a psychopath at times. He basicly yust rams in Shamsel to kill it this could also be a 14 with little training having to improvise in a fight. As he want's to recreate what happenend with sashiel it doesn't work however and is more careful aftherwards.
Also in stead of squeezing kaworu to death, he swallows him whole (inside unit 01).

Kaworu:
a early apearance in episode 7 in stead of Asuka giving exposition abouth AT field. He returns when he returns in the manga right afther Arael's attack and "helps" in the fight with Armisael. He get's infected together with Rei and some emotions of Rei flow into Kaworu. Kaworu is left traumatized and curious by the event (this also happens in the manga). As Rei(II) is technically alive and in the hospital. Shinji's has a proper vigel in stead of a wake. Lying in bed with kaworu he wakes up believing it's Rei and he starts hyperventilating. Kaworu tries mouth to mouth to keeps Shinji's breathing under control like in the manga.
Kaworu has his (pretty gay conversation quoted from the manga it goes like this)
Shinji yust shoved kaworu of him from giving mouth to mouth. (kaworu hey... how does it feel?/How does it feel/when a person comes to like a other person?/ Wanting to touch them/wanting to kiss them/ not wanting to loose him/ How does it feel?//Shinji what are saying //kaworu when we fought that angel First toughts and feelings flowed into me/A tepid sticky disgusting feeling that seemed to constrict my chest/ Is that love? IF something like that was aimed at me... how would it feel?/ If you/ if you came to love me/ I wonder how that would feel?

Seconds later they are informed that Rei is up and about. Rei is seen reading to a comatose Asuka. Shinji is happy eventough Rei basicly inmediatly says she is the third Shinji thinking she ment him (the third child) distracted by the presence of (the comatose) Asuka. Rei and kaworu have their second conversation and talk abouth their entaglement. Rei answers some of Shinji's question but it becomes very clear that she is no longer Rei(II)
At episode 24 he get's swallowed by unit 01, meaning he is inside "the ark". And Seele can't yust take his soul and put it inside a new body.

Toji/hikari:
Don't change (lost leg scenario)

Kensuke:
Implied he used to take Rei's notes to her dorm, warns Shinji to call Rei before visiting her dorm (clothes and mess) knows she is a vegetarian implies he ones also had a night out camping with Rei like he has with Shinji at the times. (concerning the man in black).
Has a visit with Toji in the hospital afther bardiel incident

Mana Kirishima:
Appears in 3 episodes, is basicly a spy, designated pilot for jet alone (chosen because she could more freely interact with the children Jet alone does not need a child to operate it). First tries to interact with Shinji but he is gone towards unit 02 at sea, tries for Rei who escapes her. See's Shinji in Asuka's plug suit. Goes to the children school. Tries Rei again and fails tries Asuka but she doesn't know much tries kensuke get's in trouble with Rei, tries Shinji events of matarael begin. Mana aids by being a mobile power source in Jet alone. Stays in Japan when Jet alone is send out to retrieve the spear of longinus. The Japan marine ecosystem preservation research organization platform is placed above the recovery site. But Jet alone can't reach the spear because it openend up a thermal vent and the heat is to much. With the platform in place a eva recovery can be atempted. The spear get's recovered but jet alone get's criticly damaged and can't be recovered . The platform is also heavily damaged and mana falls in the water that saturated with sandalphon blood. Mana decides to step back from this point.

noticeable different angels.

Sandalphon
The concept of the inside of a volcano is stupid Sandalphon is instead a worm that swims between thermal vents protecting the spear of longinus.

Leliel
Leliel is seen as a more or less a black snakethat occupies every space he travels trough. Up close he ends up swallowing Shinji/unit01 as it's steps inside it's body/shadow. Then the angel stops.
Up close leliel apears to be a 2D image similar to the one from the show but when standing directly in front when it's own image blocks the view of it's tale (it is at the same time on every position it has ever been). As seen later moving up and down show othermoments in it's timeline. At least for leliel time is a reversible dimension.
Because of this it's uncertain how long Shinji is actualy inside Leliel but he will escape in a similar way as in the anime.
That said inside leliel, leliel itself being able to see his past and future seems unhappy. Yui who is inside unit 01, tells him the origin story (basicly canon law from the NGE2 game). It is also made clear that the dead parents of the potential pilot candidates are present. Leliel is very civil during the encounter and mentions that Yui has a strange charm, he also mentions of what happens up there in the eva and down on the real world.
Stuff happens but is kept purpusfully vague something happens what we later figure out is leliel has given his S2 core in return for sanctuary inside unit 01. To escape it's fate (saaying past and future he can see his own death). Yui probably contacted Rei and told her to observe the ring to see how Leliel dies she observe Unit 01 breaking out of Leliel and as she observes it the event both happens and has happenend Unit 01 breaks out of leliel whilst also laying on the floor below it, and then falls into position.

It's a bid of a cop out because I do not want unit 01 to go beserk afther it's timelimit without a S2 engine. it wil only become clear during the fight with zereul unit 01 has a S2core.

Tabris
at the end he get's swallowed by unit 01 in stead of crushed so his soul is inside Unit 01. Reappears during the final 2 episodes.
Last edited by orcot on Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:13 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby glitz2hard » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:42 pm

i don't know if i would change this, but if Rei ii had said something along the line of "i love you Shinji" or some other closing piece like that, where she just openly, simply stated some accepting of her emotions, i would have broke down crying then and there
in typing this i feel like this actually already happened and it's gonna catch me off guard during this watchthrough
(edit: this is referring to her death scene)

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:27 am

Sorry for doing a mild resurrection of this thread, but I've been thinking quite a bit about what I would change with this show. It's fine as is, I can watch all of it without any major problems. But it sure as hell isn't perfect. So, here are some things I would change:

  • Flesh out Rei's character some more. It's really annoying how she immediately gets sidelined as soon as Asuka shows up.
  • In a similar vein, tone down Asuka's abrasive attitude. I'm not asking for it to be removed completely, I just want her to be more sympathetic so that her complete mental breakdown later on can have more impact.
  • Either get rid of most of the Action Arc, or replace it with something less bad. Magmadiver in particular was completely atrocious.
  • Toji should die when the Dummy Plug destroys his Eva. He was going to die originally, but the censors wouldn't allow kids to die in the show.
  • Kaworu should be introduced earlier, around Episode 20 of the original. Both the manga and the Rebuilds did this, and it would make the reveal of him being an Angel less obvious.
  • Get rid of the cum scene in EoE. People always defend it, but I still don't understand why it was necessary. It reeks of cheap shock value, and makes showing that movie to other people insanely awkward.
  • Have Misato show up at the ending instead of Asuka. She says something like "I told you I would come back, didn't I?" causing Shinji to hug her emotionally. Hopefully that would be somewhat more satisfying than the choking scene.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby dzzthink » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:13 pm

I agree with some of your points but I thought the ending of Eva was generally well-received because it was unsatisfying. The only realistic way to end a movie with such an emotional and provocative plot would be to round it up with an abstract ending that can be interpreted in different ways. To have a mother figure appear at the end to comfort him would be nice but it doesn't fit the style of the series dealing with the complications in people's relationships. Asuka's more turbulent relationship with Shinji and her enigmatic remark to close the film seem to encompass this message best.

My personal feeling is that there weren't enough episodes that had the right mix of character interaction, plot progression and angel fight scenes. I thought ep 9 and 10 were pretty good because there was a lead-up to the angel fight. There was also a lot of technical mumbo jumbo or boring backstory that didn't need to be featured in some episodes too much (who would understand half the stuff the technicians say). The Rebuild does a good job in distilling many of these key moments where there is good action scenes and character development.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:51 pm

Maybe you’re right about the ending. I was just inspired by UrsusArctos in another thread saying that it would be more satisfying if Misato showed up instead of Asuka. I read that and I thought “Wait, that’s actually a brilliant idea.” I know that the ending wasn’t supposed to be satisfying, though.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Blockio » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:45 pm

I disagree that the ending wasn't satisfying. Sure, it isn't fluff, but it is ultimately hopeful, people can rise back up and start anew even after the literal end of the world. Having a mother figure appear in Asuka's stead would ultimately also not be the most fitting, since so much of the show and especially EoE is about growing up and leaving the dependency on those behind, so that would undermine the whole point of it
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Zusuchan » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:47 am

Talking about EoE's ending, it bears worth pointing out that it being Asuka and Shinji there at the end in the way they are, reacting as they do, is probably one of the best endings for the film and the original NGE canon as a whole. Asuka and Shinji had a very fraught relationship and exemplified many of the show's themes (hedgehog's dilemma, interpersonal relationships, miscommunication, etc.) and Asuka caressing Shinji's cheek means that she's gone beyond her previous hatred of Shinji and is willing to forgive him for what he's done or at the very least actually go ahead and engage in some kind of a relationship with him, thereby also making the end a very cautiously optimistic one, as it says that there's hope for people to get past their problems and grow out of them. Anyone besides from Asuka wouldn't have made sense.

I also disagree with your ideas about the necessity of the cum scene-it's a pretty important part of EoE, as it immediately makes sure the viewer understands they're watching something screwed-up and quite dark, it shows just how much Shinji has fallen, and it makes Asuka's decision to act gently in the beach scene far more poignant. It's a disgusting scene, yeah, but I think EoE would have been a poorer work without it. Mind you, I consider EoE to be a superb masterpiece and the best film I've ever watched, so I doubt the cum scene missing would have significantly lowered my love for it, but I do think it would not have been as strong without it.

As for Kaworu appearing earlier...well, as much as we all love Kaworu as a character, I actually think his arc is better the way it is. NTE is a very different playing field with very different intentions, after all. Talking about the manga, I think Sadamoto made Kaworu into a kitten-killing sociopath partially because he realized that if Kaworu in his NGE form were to appear earlier, Shinji would probably get through his mental problems a lot easier, so in order to avoid that, his entire character was changed drastically. Kaworu is the equivalent of the perfect person, the personal Jesus who accepts you unconditionally and will totally love you no questions asked and you never have to worry about his own barrage of problems-but such a person doesn't exist and the impossibility of finding such a person is shown in NGE, from Kaworu's otherworldly, Angelic nature to his quick death. Furthermore, Shinji quickly latches onto Kaworu because every other relationship he had is irrevocably fucked-up right now-Rei's a clone, Misato wanted to screw him, Asuka's in a coma, Touji and Kensuke are somewhere else...Kaworu is a lifesaver of a human being he latches onto. And then he kills him, which would devastate him no matter what, but devastates him even more with the circumstances we have in the anime. And it's because of that that he chooses to go ahead with 3I.

Asuka's attitude and Rei's character are personal things-I see no reason for them to be changed, but I also admit it largely comes down to a personal preference. I would have liked for Rei to be there more, but then perhaps her mysterious nature would have been compromised a bit too much...Touji should have died, agreed, and it's one of the few genuine flaws the series has. I do want to point out that the second half of NGE hits as horrifyingly hard as it does partially because of the Action Arc and its light tone.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby Line » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:09 am

Nothing. Oh yeah, maybe the too grimdark depressing end of evangelion (that's Just how I feel it.) but otherwise that's it. Everything is perfect. Even end of evangelion. Just too much for my taste.

Erm, I'm stopping here, I fucking sound like a broken-record :uhh:

EDIT: Some character developement (!) for Rei would be really good. I cannot insist on this too-enough.
"Kimochi warui..."

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:47 am

So, I've recently been showing Eva to some of my friends. We're on Episode 8 so far, going to watch Episode 9 tonight. They mostly like it, but they have a lot of issues. So I decided to post some of those issues in this thread. Expect this to be less "what would I change about Eva," more "what would my friends change about Eva."

  • Increase the pace of the early episodes, especially 3 to 5. My friends started out really enjoying the first two episodes, but by the time they got to Episode 3 they sort of hit a brick wall. The slow pacing of Episodes 3, 4, and 5 completely threw them off, especially with such an action-packed opening. This is one of the things that Rebuild 1.0 improved in my opinion, so I think they'll enjoy that movie.
  • Tone down some of the comedy, especially after Asuka shows up. Whenever my friends saw one of the comedic scenes, they tended to react more perplexed than amused. Pen-Pen was especially a victim of this. They didn't understand why such an emotional show would have a cute animal mascot that acts like a human. When Pen-Pen passed out from Misato's cooking in Episode 5, one of them actually said, "What the hell?"
  • Related to my previous point, tone down the early personalities of the female characters. One of my friends pointed out, after we were done with Episode 8, that every female protagonist except for Rei seems to be overly emotional and yelling constantly. I told them that they get better and more nuanced later on, but I actually agreed with them. Their complaints about this were mostly directed at Asuka. After the end of the episode, that same friend said, "She's a main character now. How disappointing." I told them she also gets better, but warned them that her first few episodes make her really obnoxious.

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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby robersora » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:28 pm

^
Did they watch the English dub, by any chance?
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Re: What would you change about Evangelion?

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Postby BusterMachine4 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:45 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:^
Did they watch the English dub, by any chance?

If you're referring to ADV, no, they watched the Netflix dub. And since the Netflix dub has a reputation of including more subdued performances, that just enhances my point.


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