Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Chuckman » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:20 pm

I'm going to have to go see that just for the Princess Bride reference.
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Postby movieartman » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:23 pm

More Swamp Thing news.

Andy Bean (power) as Alec Holland & Derek Mears (2010 predators, 09 f13 & Hatchet 3) as The Monster.

Will Patton (2018 halloween) as lead villain Avery Sunderland.

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Postby cyharding » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:30 pm

Here's a trailer for all of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCf03KXyzIg
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Postby movieartman » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:05 am


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Postby movieartman » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:33 pm

Ton of very positive Aquaman short reviews - https://www.comicbookmovie.com/aquaman/ ... ie-a164935

This comment...
The chemistry between Arthur and Mera carry the film

Is very pleasing to me as they are my favorite couple in comics thanks to Geoff John's new 52 Aquaman run.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:53 pm

CoughNetflixCancelledDaredevilCough.
I heard talk of this three weeks ago but it’s official now.
To put it bluntly, Netflix is cleaning house of all things Marvel because the shows are expensive and in the long run they’re only really acting as marketing for the Disney/Marvel brand. They can throw on as many dark filters and “serious discussions” they want but people still approach these series as fun diversions between the Disney movies. Since Disney is planning to remove ALL their films and series off Netflix sometime next summer - Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars, Classic animation, if it’s by Disney it’s gone - AND Disney+ is going to have actual streaming shows that tie into the theatrical MCU directly there really isn’t a point to keep these hanger on shows around. The whole affair is disadvantageous for Netflix now and Disney too wants these shows gone because they’re “tarnishing” the Marvel brand.
Cancellations for Jessica Jones & The Punisher most likely (but not positively) won’t be announced until after they’re released but short of a surprise they’ve kept well well hidden the Marvel/Netflix collaboration is essentially over.

Though once that is done I wouldn’t be surprised - actually I’d say it’ll be a given - if Disney was willing to buy & Netflix be amendable to selling them the characters back so Daredevil may continue Daredeviling in a future more PG-13 friendly Disney+ Marvel show... you’ll just need a Disney+ membership to see it.

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Postby movieartman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:53 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Disney too wants these shows gone because they’re “tarnishing” the Marvel brand.

How? Only Iron Fist S1 got truly horrible reception. All the others are considered better then most Arrow/Legends of tomorrow/Gotham/Supergirl episodes & Devil S1 is considered on par with the Dark Knight & one of the most faithful comic adaptions ever. I've heard S3 was very well received as well.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:20 pm

The “tarnishing” comment is less about quality than it is public image. Disney has branded itself 100% on being all about family friendly entertainment because that’s where the most money is at. They’ll allow their PG-13 films to dip into darker material but mostly in a surface level way. Disney has bought up and used other brands to sell adult faring material - i.e. Disney owned Miramax in the 90s so one could argue in a very jokey bullshit roundabout way Mia Wallace from Pulp Ficiton could count as a Disney princess - but the name brand Disney has always been FAMILY FRIENDLY. They’ve been leaning more into family friendly image a lot more than recently than in the past few decades cause it makes bank. Marvel is now synonimous with that family friendly brand as the edgy cool part of the Mouse House and Marvel characters are only going to become more synomimous as the Disney+ streaming service heavily sells up Marvel movies & shows.

Having those other dark Marvel branded shows out there about rape, catholic guilt, race, appropriation and a dude who loves guns “tarnish” an otherwise safe brand as far as Disney is concerned. Those are serious topics far outside the safety of Marvel’s PG-13 image and Disney is all about image.** They are the corporation who sued daycare centers for having Disney characters on the walls.

I’m sure Disney would rather not have those characters outside of their control dealing with that kind of subject matter while being connected directly with the Marvel brand name.


PS. I’m not even gonna touch the Daredevil Season 1 is on par with The Dark Knight nonsense.

**Like how Disney embraces their long legacy of animation (as they should) but do everything in their power to bury Song of the South, the partially animated 1946 theatrical movie starring Uncle Remus and how he felt life on the plantation wasn’t so bad and the masters were really nice wonderful people.

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Postby movieartman » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:06 pm

Apparently Season 4 was fully plotted out & everything - https://www.cbr.com/daredevil-season-4- ... cellation/

Why did they even start these shows if they didn't like the contrast between them & the tone of the movies? It's not like they were started super early before it was clear what style the full universe would have. Daredevil S1 aired in 2015 around Age of Ultron & the 1st Ant Man.

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:34 pm

Besides all the moving picture show company politics, one reason to kill off the Netflix shows is that their only connection to the MCU is offhand references to aliens or the “green guy” but you can’t make a season of television set in a world where half the people turned to dust and tens of millions more died in the aftermath with some one liners to tie them together.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:08 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:The “tarnishing” comment is less about quality than it is public image. Disney has branded itself 100% on being all about family friendly entertainment because that’s where the most money is at. They’ll allow their PG-13 films to dip into darker material but mostly in a surface level way. Disney has bought up and used other brands to sell adult faring material - i.e. Disney owned Miramax in the 90s so one could argue in a very jokey bullshit roundabout way Mia Wallace from Pulp Ficiton could count as a Disney princess - but the name brand Disney has always been FAMILY FRIENDLY. They’ve been leaning more into family friendly image a lot more than recently than in the past few decades cause it makes bank. Marvel is now synonimous with that family friendly brand as the edgy cool part of the Mouse House and Marvel characters are only going to become more synomimous as the Disney+ streaming service heavily sells up Marvel movies & shows.

Having those other dark Marvel branded shows out there about rape, catholic guilt, race, appropriation and a dude who loves guns “tarnish” an otherwise safe brand as far as Disney is concerned. Those are serious topics far outside the safety of Marvel’s PG-13 image and Disney is all about image.** They are the corporation who sued daycare centers for having Disney characters on the walls.

I’m sure Disney would rather not have those characters outside of their control dealing with that kind of subject matter while being connected directly with the Marvel brand name.


PS. I’m not even gonna touch the Daredevil Season 1 is on par with The Dark Knight nonsense.

**Like how Disney embraces their long legacy of animation (as they should) but do everything in their power to bury Song of the South, the partially animated 1946 theatrical movie starring Uncle Remus and how he felt life on the plantation wasn’t so bad and the masters were really nice wonderful people.


I know I'm going to get some flack for saying this, but I think Disney's insistence that everything it produces be appropriate for family viewing is the WORST decision the company has EVER made (yes, worse than getting rid of hand-drawn animation. Bite me).

Other big movie and TV studios, like Viacom, Time Warner, and Comcast, don't have this problem. You can watch an R-rated Universal or Warner Bros. movie and not come away with the impression that Universal or Warner Bros. is "tarnishing" their brand. And because of that, those studios have flexibility. They can make whatever they want-- a kid's movie, an adult drama, a horror movie-- and release it all under the same brand name. Because they never had a specific brand. They just made movies.

Disney isn't like that. They have to keep everything kid-friendly because that's the way they've always done it. Any more "adult" franchises they acquire, such as will inevitably happen during the Fox merger, will either be cancelled or neutered to the point of being unrecognizable. This is not a good thing-- especially because of how it affects other studios. Think about it:
Why has it taken so long for adult animation to catch on in America? Because for decades, the only studio making mass-market animated movies was Disney, and all they wanted to do was make movies for kids.
Why do the DC superhero movies suck? Because DC wants to imitate Marvel, thinking that's the only way to make a superhero franchise.
Why do so many studios prefer to make franchise films rather than risky, innovative stories? You can blame the Marvel Cinematic Universe for that.

If I were in Bob Iger's shoes, I would abolish the company's "all kid-friendly, all the time" mantra once and for all. Plenty of movies for kids would still be made, of course, but there would also be movies aimed at adults in a way that Disney doesn't do right now. Why can't Disney just act like a regular company, and not have to bend over backwards to make everything fit a preconcieved notion of what its image "should be" ? Why can't they make movies for every demographic, not just kids and families?
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:11 am

^ Well, artistically I agree with you. Business-wise, it's hard to argue with Disney's dominance over the industry. Numbers don't lie, man. This stuff works.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:11 pm

You won't get flack for saying it. I'm with you entirely in that Disney is in the perfect position to make all types of films for all ages & demographics & they should.

But as pointed out, Disney ain't in this business to make art anymore. The budget of one of their Cartoon Remakes, Superhero movies, Star Wars spinoffs , etc could pay for the production and distribution of up to a dozen older demographic driven movies. But none of them will make 1/50th of what Avengers 8 will do. Sure, they've got a hell of a PR team who will sell to the world that "We here at Marvel/Pixar/Star Wars/etc are redefining what it means to tell stories and we're solely driven to tell the best stories possible" and people will eat that shit up but Disney is solely focused on profit and have done everything they can to remove risk from the equation. Everything they make is focus grouped to the nth degree and they'll only make projects that are guaranteed to make the most money possible. The projects that make the most money? Things the whole family can see together.** The biggest R rated ticket seller - Passion of the Christ - is 40th on the list and when you take away the merchandise opportunities that don't come often with R rated movies you're talking a difference in overall profit. The Cars movies may be known as Pixar's lowest selling batch of films but has brought them billions of dollars in merchandise sales through toys and clothes to appeal to children.

Disney has encroached on 50% of the theatrical market and is well over the 50% in overall ancillary sales. Once they get into the streaming game next Fall they'll most likely take over 50% of the market there as well as they use their brand name series as a weapon to crush the competition who will have to abandon originals - i.e. Stranger Things - and make content with brand awareness to compete - Cowboy Bebop & Avatar: The Last Airbender remakes. The big boss gets to make the rules and other studios - like Warner Brothers regarding DC Comics - are forced and have to take risks in order to compete.

Disney doesn't care if people liked Daredevil on Netflix. In fact, Disney is aware that putting Netflix in the place where they cancelled one of their top viewed shows will only help Disney in the long run when they can "save" the character a few years from now and people will say "Disney cares about their viewers unlike Netflix, or Warner Brothers, or etc."

It's a harsh system but that's the entertainment industry. They're conglomerates and someone somewhere has worked out the math and figured despite the good reviews, word of mouth and fanbase a show like Daredevil could cause them to lose X amount of Audience Y in location Z and that could lead to an overall loss of 0.0005% in profits for 2023.

**Marvel has especially learned to weaponize social awareness. Trades won't cover it but Marvel passed on the go-ahead from Disney to make a female led superhero movie well over 5 years ago because they didn't see the profit in women led stories. It was only after people started calling them out on their bullshit that they put a Captain Marvel movie into production and are now selling it as "a HERo" story and everyone is eating it up. Marvel didn't want to make the movie - or at least not give her her own film - but they're aware how to stay in people's good graces through doing the bare minimum when forced too and still reap profits.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:29 pm

Ah yes, Disney only lets Marvel make safe movies, like the one where the villain wins and half the population of the entire universe dies, including a bunch of beloved characters.

Yeah yeah, they'll be back. Did you also know that they're actors and none of them really died? I mean, how can they be serious about portraying these characters if they're not willing to actually be turned into coffee grounds and scattered into the wind?

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Disney ain't in this business to make art anymore.


When were they? They're a merchandising company and for most of their history their business model could best be described as stealing public domain characters from the public domain by standardizing them, slapping a Made in China sticker on their ass, and charging $400 a day to visit them in their huge temples of standardized anticreativity.

If you strip away everything Disney adapted, bought, or stole to make their commerical products you're left with Mickey Mouse and Hannah Montana.

Also, the Captain Marvel second trailer dropped yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LHxvxdRnYc

The cat thing alone has sold me.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:52 pm

You can be a fan of this universe and not sugarcoat things.
The ending of Infinity War would actually be worth talking about if it wasn't already announced that half these "dead" characters have future movies and TV shows in production.
It's not a brave move when they go out of their way to have Tom Holland dressed as Spider-man in the next movies Spider-Suit show up to make jokes on Jimmy Kimmel. It's a move right out of television. It's a cliffhanger built on the calculated assurance guaranteeing the viewer will come back to watch the following episode next year.

We can reiterate this conversation again but again but storytelling choices worth talking about have permanent consequences. Until they retcon things - which I'm sure they will - Thor's homeworld getting destroyed at the end of Thor: Ragnarok is an actual consequence. The ending of Infinity War makes it pointedly clear in who they poof that these aren't permanent consequences. They just set up the mission our surviving original Avengers squad heroes have to set out to achieve in Part 2.

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Postby El Squibbonator » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:21 pm

I've just become very disillusioned with Disney over the past few years. The sad thing is, I actually like a lot of Disney's movies. It's just that nowadays, all of those movies come from the same-old, same-old half-dozen series. There's no novelty. They weren't always like this. Say what you will about Michael Eisner, but I personally think he did a better job about making sure Disney had a varied output than Bob Iger is doing now.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:59 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:
We can reiterate this conversation again but again but storytelling choices worth talking about have permanent consequences.


I don't care if the characters are all going to come back later, watching the movie made me emotional when I was watching it, in the moment. If it does that, it's a success. It's all fake, so all the yammering about how they'll come back is essentially complaining that it's just a story.

If it failed to capture your imagination and spark an emotional response, fine, that's a criticism, but the "consequences" nonsense is the literary equivalent of armchair experts on Reddit lamenting the use of CGI by pointing out practical effects which are actually CGI they weren't aware of.

It's pretty funny when this complaint keeps resurfacing when it's obvious that at some point they're going to kill off or permanently retire the flagship heroes because the actors are real people that age and have to sign contracts or they won't be playing the roles anymore. These movies have more "actual" consequences than comic books themselves.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:08 pm

^ I see where you're coming from, but GendosPapa was simply saying that Disney was making "safe" movies, narratively speaking. The fact that Avenger's Infinity War made you feel emotions doesn't make the movie "unsafe" in some way, it just means that the movie was effective in its narrative goals. Killing Tom Holland's Spider-Man in Infinity War was emotional and effective storytelling. Keeping his character dead would be bold and daring storytelling.

Not that any 5-year-olds watching will care about that distinction. I quite enjoyed seeing something in theaters that made the kids around me cry a little. It's good to know that there's still innocence left in this world, ya know?

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Postby Chuckman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:25 pm

When I saw it on opening night there were adults sobbing for Spider-Man.

Infinity War is about the worst example of safe storytelling from Disney-Marvel. Age of Ultron was safe storytelling.

You know was offensively safe storytelling? The adaptation of A Wrinkle in Time that they released this year. There was nothing but budget to distinguish that movie from made for tv crap from the Disney Channel and the entire movie just threw up its hands and said "look, Oprah!" while cutting out everything challenging from the source material for some reason, probably to make it accessible.

Beauty and the Beast was safe storytelling; the way the handled the gay subtext around Gaston succeeded in making the movie more gay but less queer, and so forth.
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Postby El Squibbonator » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:29 pm

The sad thing is, Disney as a company was founded on risk-taking endeavors. Snow White? Pinocchio? Fantasia? Those were all risky movies by the standards of their time. Disney used to be all about taking risks and doing things no other movie studio had done before. What happened to them? How did they lose their mojo?
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