Rei: Angel or not?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:27 pm

Rei 3 seemed to become a little ... different after merging with Lilith. And I'm not talking about the "enormous, white, and bug-eyed" part.

I subscribe to the notion that there was something left behind in Lilith to "welcome" the rest back "home".
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:55 pm

Creepy how you just said that, Reichu, 'cause I was just about to bring this up. /...Though hopefully we ARE talking about the same thing because I only read from this post http://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5455176#post5455176 to the bottom of the page.(Shit, Reichu's Revelations is 26 pages of Rei, Kaworu, Asuka/Kyoko and Yui?! :shock: Or is there even more than that? Eitherway, I need to sit myself down sometime this Summer an go through the whole thing, unless there's a single "in a nutshell about these different topics" page you wrote somewhere.)

We're hearing Rei after she's returned to her original body and, presumably, been reacquainted with whatever was idling around in there. I dunno about you, but there is a distinctly different feel to everything she says afterwards.* It's still Rei, but different. And what the aspect that's "different" -- that wasn't there before -- is saying doesn't sound like stuff that would be coming from somebody who had not LIVED at all prior to being sent off from the Homeworld. Just the vibes I've been getting...


* Nevermind the huge discrepancy between her "spiritual incarnation" and the absolutely vacant-eyed, frightening GGNR. Still haven't resolved that one in my mind.



In the LCL Sea, when Rei's talking with Shinji, she just doesn't SEEM the same. I guess Shinji's surprised reaction can account for that, though his reaction is also his "zomg I just woke up from what I hope was a really bad dream (in this case starting 3rd Impact" face. Something about Rei's words, they seem to have such...wisdom/knowledge in them...

Image

How would she know that until "fully" (dunno how else to explain it) being Lilith? Until after talking with Kaworu and "awakening" in a sense, her soul--or at least part of it due to Lilith's physical body having some of it and Zero having the rest?

So...Anybody know what kind of relationship Lilith and Kaworu had on the homeworld? Why the hell would Adam spear Lilith (It probably is the other way around??) anyway besides most likely some PRS that I'm not aware of (Besides Spear of Logninus=what Jesus was speared with)??

And there's probably something else I was going to add but I have a headache now from writing all this so forget it.
(This (Angels, Evas, and how they all relate to eachother (Excluding humans :P)) is what confuses me and makes me go "Uh...WTF??", not EoTV & EoE!!)
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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:39 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:How would she know that until "fully" (dunno how else to explain it) being Lilith? Until after talking with Kaworu and "awakening" in a sense, her soul--or at least part of it due to Lilith's physical body having some of it and Zero having the rest?

What I was getting at is that Lilith must have actually lived a life before becoming a Seed -- i.e., been an ordinary person at one point. All Lilith (speaking in terms of the giant, marshmallow-like humanoid) ever got to do was go on a very long interstellar journey, land on Earth, and bleed a lot -- more or less. Wisdom doesn't come out of vacuum.

So...Anybody know what kind of relationship Lilith and Kaworu had on the homeworld?

In my own private dreamworld, they were both mothers who sacrificed their mortal lives for a greater purpose, and there were many others like them.

Why the hell would Adam spear Lilith (It probably is the other way around??) anyway besides most likely some PRS that I'm not aware of

The Spear impaled Adam on its own. Lame, isn't it?

(This (Angels, Evas, and how they all relate to eachother (Excluding humans :P)) is what confuses me and makes me go "Uh...WTF??", not EoTV & EoE!!)

It doesn't give me any problems. ;)
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Postby V » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:44 pm

The Spear impaled Adam on its own. Lame, isn't it?


(from the Simpsons)

(Hank Scorpio addresses the United Nations)

Scorpio: "You have 24 hours to deliver the gold, otherwise..."

(suspension bridge outside the window collapses)

UN Delegate #1: "Oh no, he blew up the bridge!...I guess we'll have to give in to his demands"

UN Delegate #2: "wait! Maybe it collapsed on its own"

UN Delegate #1: "We can't take that chance"

UN Delegate #2: "You're always saying that! Maybe some of US want to take that chance....*I* want to take that chance!!"

Scorpio: ""Collapsed on its own"?! of all the..."
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:10 pm

Reichu wrote:Wisdom doesn't come out of vacuum.


Ah, I see.

In my own private dreamworld, they were both mothers who sacrificed their mortal lives for a greater purpose, and there were many others like them.


Hmm...reminds me of someone else, a certain favorite uber-goddess of ours. ;) Though I don't get how she can become the next SoL/have the Angels along for the ride since her voyage is "alone" supposedly...

The Spear impaled Adam on its own. Lame, isn't it?


Then how'd it get to Lilith? O_o Did Adam just go "Enough of this shit! Yoink!", impale Lilith @ 2I, then got all pissed off because she was giving birth to her favorite daughter/herself during 2nd Impact? And for that matter, WHY did Adam go all nuts during 2I anyway? Because of giving birth to Kaworu and the fact the Katsuragi team was trying to contain her for whatever reasons there were? I dunno, something about 2I despite Misato's words still sounds devious to me: Why reduce Adam to an egg to begin with; how would THAT stop the other Angels from doing whatever they wanted? Why allow any of humanity to die as a result? "It's like hell out there! What's the purpose of science?"~04/"What good is science if it can't even save one life?!"~20 (...If you understand ALL of that rambling, you've officially impressed me.) Feel free to point me to the right page/thread that addresses any of this.

It doesn't give me any problems. ;)


You take care of all the Angels/Eva stuff, and I'll attempt to tackle some of the human introspection stuff. Agreed? :mrgreen:

@ V: Mentioning Simpsons is ALWAYS for the win! ^_^

As a Forum Guidelines aside, I hope I responded correctly in terms of teh updated rules. After all, I quoted only the parts I'm responding to, soo...
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Postby Opteron-O3 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:26 pm

I actually understood that phrase SSD ;)
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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:31 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Though I don't get how she can become the next SoL/have the Angels along for the ride since her voyage is "alone" supposedly...

Yeah, and so were Adam's and Lilith's. But this is the Wrong Thread.

The Spear impaled Adam on its own. Lame, isn't it?

Then how'd it get to Lilith?

Gendo retrieved it from Antarctica (#12), then sent Rei in EVA-00 down to Terminal Dogma to skewer Lilith (#14).

(Some rambling is all right, but try to ramble within the thread's parameters.)
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Postby V » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:44 am

What I don't understand is 1-why did they need to skewer Lilith with it in episode 14, if they had already gone so many years with her NOT skewered, just crucified in Terminal Dogma? and 2-The Director's Cut stuff says that the Lance was brought to Antarctica in 2000 from the Dead Sea...why was it there?
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Postby marmotgirl » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:29 am

Reichu wrote:What I was getting at is that Lilith must have actually lived a life before becoming a Seed -- i.e., been an ordinary person at one point.


Hoshit.

*has one of those "Why the hell didn't this occur to ME at any point in the last ten years?!" moments*

See, this is why I love these forums, people can still provoke you towards little revelations :D . Ima go digest and ponder this awhile before contributing.
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Postby Opteron-O3 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:45 am

V wrote:What I don't understand is 1-why did they need to skewer Lilith with it in episode 14, if they had already gone so many years with her NOT skewered, just crucified in Terminal Dogma? and 2-The Director's Cut stuff says that the Lance was brought to Antarctica in 2000 from the Dead Sea...why was it there?


SEELE knew about the Lance correct? But I don't think they knew where it was, or did they? Until Kaji told them about it. They where slowing the growth of Lilith until the needed her, until around ep 22-24(don't remember) so she would be ready for EoE. Now why did they wait until ep 14 to do this... is beyond me.

Lilith's offspring (unit01) seems to regenerate faster than her mother (lilith) very slow... but once they pull the lance off of her she begins to regenerate faster... damn.

The lance was in adam remember? He was in Antarctica with the Katsuragi team.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:28 pm

That's Ms. Adam to you, and I can't believe I forgot about the 12/14/22' stuff. -_-;

And yes, EMF is a very happy place indeed.
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Postby BrikHaus » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:29 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:That's Mrs. Adam to you

She's married? To who, fem-Kaworu?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:30 pm

I meant "Ms." implying that Adam=Female, sorry. ^^; *goes back and edits*
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Postby manitilde » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:34 pm

I was under the impression that Rei may be part angel, but how much was never stated. Just enough to have some powers and to be used in SEELE's and Gendou's plans. I always thought she was mostly human.

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Postby Opteron-O3 » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:18 pm

Well she??s the ??mother of man kind??
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:42 am

manitilde wrote:I was under the impression that Rei may be part angel, but how much was never stated. Just enough to have some powers and to be used in SEELE's and Gendou's plans. I always thought she was mostly human.

If you're implying she got Angel DNA from Lilith according to the Magi's DNA scan Lilith is a human not an Angel, go figure. I'd think her powers have more to do with having Lilith's soul with being constructed out of PWM playing a large part too.

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Postby Katayoku no Tenshi » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:40 am

What puzzles me is the whole angel numbering system. I thought the CI labelled Lilith as the Second Angel explicitly, but how are the angels from Sachiel onward labelled? In order of their appearance?
Well they do appear in the order that they are numbered, they may also be numbered in the order that their egg were created, even though they were presumably …ensouled at the same time. During the Antarctic contact experiment.
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Actually if Kaworu is numbered 17 and he was created at the moment of the contact experiment? That could mean that they just so happened to appear in the order they were created. And are numberd in that order, Adam and Lilith in the order they arrived. Having thier egg 'layed' could be considered 'arriving' I guess.
Conclusion? Rei is not an angel.
Adam = Angel Lilith = Angel Lilim = Angel Angels = Angels Evangelion = Angel FAR = Angle. Everybody Angel. Why is this suddenly being questioned?
Note the highlighted line, this indicates he remembers his past life on, ZOMG, another planet. He recognized Rei for who she really was even if Rei did not and even identified Lilith by sight which is something only some who has seen her before could do.
Remembering their days together at SoL training camp? Going o long hikes round the Solar System, until they received their planetary assignments. Then the trouble started. Why does Adam get an nice little planet close to a sun? While Lilith is stuck on <other planet> *shot* but it’s interesting to speculate ….
If you're implying she got Angel DNA from Lilith according to the Magi's DNA scan Lilith is a human not an Angel, go figure.

If they’ve been associating Adam Derived Life forms with angels, then Lilith should read as ‘Human’ surly?
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:32 am

Katayoku no Tenshi wrote:If they’ve been associating Adam Derived Life forms with angels, then Lilith should read as ‘Human’ surly?

Yeah, but that means her DNA is 99.whatever (don't know the exact percentage that seperates each human) percent identical to us. So how come we don't have 7 eyes and marshmallow type bodies? Lilith reading as one of us really is stupid, surely they could've come up with a costom group for her. I can understand Adam and kids being that way but we're just faaaar to different from Lilith for it to make any kind of sense.

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Postby Opteron-O3 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:01 pm

Maybe it could be the whole ??soul?? thing. Or they might just be reffering to the Fruit of Knowledge thing again.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:45 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:I'd think her powers have more to do with having Lilith's soul with being constructed out of PWM playing a large part too.

I chock her powahz up to that, too.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
Katayoku no Tenshi wrote:If they’ve been associating Adam Derived Life forms with angels, then Lilith should read as ‘Human’ surly?

Yeah, but that means her DNA is 99.whatever percent identical to us.

If the MAGI says Lilith is "human", wouldn't that mean her DNA is < 99.89% in common with ours?

It's funny because Tabris is half-Lilim.

So how come we don't have 7 eyes and marshmallow type bodies?

The 7 eyes were on a mask.

Lilith reading as one of us really is stupid

ITS LIKE SYMBOLIC OR SOMETHING.

...... noooooot!

Opteron-08 wrote:Maybe it could be the whole ¨soul¨ thing. Or they might just be reffering to the Fruit of Knowledge thing again.

That doesn't explain the "human" assessment coming up after a scan that indicates the MAGI are reading her "genetic pattern", too.
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