Of Yui, 3I, and Other Tangents

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Postby BrikHaus » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:28 am

slothen wrote:I always quote the dub. But I quote it correctly and throw in a disclaimer. Its really only an issue on the really nitty gritty stuff.


This is the reason why no one should EVER listen to the dub for Eva.
Taken from episode 26:

Misato: Listen up, dudes! We've got a new blue haired babe here to introduce herself.

Rei: My name's Rei Ayanami. How's it hanging!


*cringe*

It wouldn't really even be that bad if the acting wasn't so fucking atrocious...
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:12 am

BrikHaus81 wrote:
It wouldn't really even be that bad if the acting wasn't so fucking atrocious...
That's the reason I never watched it. I remember renting hte first one way back, watching it dubbed for about 10 minutes and then immediately switching over to the Sub. I never looked back.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:57 am

For purposes of evaluation and citation, the dub should never be used. This is a point I cannot emphasize enough.

But let's avoid the path this discussion has a horrible habit of leading to, and leave it at that, unless dub fans want to start a new one arguing why ADV and Manga's liberal adaptations should be used as a basis for interpretation of a nuance-packed Japanese show.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:22 pm

I thought ADV's Plat subs were mostly correct, not just compared to Mangle's but in general??

(Off-topic?? My bad!)
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Postby BrikHaus » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:42 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I thought ADV's Plat subs were mostly correct, not just compared to Mangle's but in general??

(Off-topic?? My bad!)


The platinum subs are pretty good. I believe that Reichu was referring to the horrors of the dub scripts.
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-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:34 pm

From here : http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67775#67775

BobBQ wrote:It was really ultimately and utterly meaningless. Would she seek to escape the final collapse of the universe, too?


Heat death ("The end of the Universe -- a brief summary") or Big Rip. Collapse was going out of fashion even in the 90s -- but even that's not necessarily a problem (cf Tipler's The Physics of Immortality which proposes a mechanism for infinite computation and infinite subjective time in the last instants of the Big Crunch).

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:She flat out says she's doing it for Shinji.


Her motivations are not as single minded as your quotation might suggest. Let us rejoin that conversation a few moments later:

ep 26' wrote:Fuyutsuki:
Humans create Evangelion in imitation of God... Is this our true goal?

Yui:
Yes. Humans can only live on this planet, but Evangelion can live forever... together with the human soul that dwells within it.

(EVA-01 and the Lance of Longinus float in space)

Even after 5 billion years, when the Earth, the Moon, and even the Sun have disappeared, it will still exist as long as even one person still lives.
It will be very lonely, but as long as that one person still lives...

Fuyutsuki:
It will be the eternal proof that humankind has existed...


--emphasis mine.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:39 pm

Primary reason and secondary reason seem fairly explicit to me, Shinji first, monument second. If all she wanted was to be a monument then she'd have skipped the planet after eating Zeruel.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:42 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:after eating Zeruel.


What -- and lose the chance for more power-ups? Gotta catch 'em all, you know.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:53 pm

I wonder how to reconcile the "lonely" stuff with the fact that she technically isn't alone -- the Spear is a living thing with a "will". Leaves some elbow room for my idea that she's taking some souls with her, kekeke.

Also, the whole "monument" thing never really sat with me. Leaving Earth with the Spear to provide proof that her people existed long after the fact... There's something fishily Seed-like about it. Not to mention she is like an uber-version of a first generation Seed at that point.
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Postby slothen » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:37 pm

Reichu wrote:But let's avoid the path this discussion has a horrible habit of leading to, and leave it at that, unless dub fans want to start a new one arguing why ADV and Manga's liberal adaptations should be used as a basis for interpretation of a nuance-packed Japanese show.


If I correctly recall one of the threads you're refering to, I came down on your side on that one.

on topic though, Is that conversation between Yui and Fuyutski a previous conversation they had? Or is it a conversation being said in light of the events of EoE? And if that is the case, how the hell can Yui- in unit 01, talk with Fuyutski- part of the great Tanged lake, have a conversation?
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:34 pm

Since baby Shinji is there it's obviously a flashback to the end of the conversation started in 21'. Too bad Fuyutsuki's words are being taken out of context when he is clearly talking about the Lilim's purpose not Yui's.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:56 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Too bad Fuyutsuki's words are being taken out of context when he is clearly talking about the Lilim's purpose not Yui's.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Yui is a Lilim (or was at that point, anyway), and she affirms what Fuyutsuki-sensei says.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:17 pm

It wasn't her idea to create them, she clearly said she was along for the ride for Shinji. the monument gibberish is second fiddle.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:31 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:It wasn't her idea to create them, she clearly said she was along for the ride for Shinji.

She seems to have been involved in this shadowy stuff since Shinji was nothing more than an unripened ovum.

the monument gibberish is second fiddle.

So why is it "humanity's purpose" to create Eva? Wasn't Eva's true reason for existing to serve as the "key to the Path to God"? Where did this crap about "proving that humanity existed" and Eva being important in her own right come from?

What were Yui's REAL reasons for getting so deeply involved in all this? Why did she have a child? Why did she abandon her child for something that has absolutely no relevance to his own existence and well-being on the Earth?

Is Yui just going to float around like a piece of space junk, or is she actually going to DO something with her Seed potential and vast, god-like power to help perpetuate humanity on other worlds? (Considering, you know, Homo sapiens isn't going to be around forever.)

Full of mysteries, this woman is.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:05 am

Reichu wrote:So why is it "humanity's purpose" to create Eva? Wasn't Eva's true reason for existing to serve as the "key to the Path to God"? Where did this crap about "proving that humanity existed" and Eva being important in her own right come from?

I get the feeling the FAR wanted second generation Seeds

Why did she abandon her child for something that has absolutely no relevance to his own existence and well-being on the Earth?

Oh come on, you know damn well if she brushed it off for someone else to handle nothing good would have come from it.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:46 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
Reichu wrote:So why is it "humanity's purpose" to create Eva? Wasn't Eva's true reason for existing to serve as the "key to the Path to God"? Where did this crap about "proving that humanity existed" and Eva being important in her own right come from?

I get the feeling the FAR wanted second generation Seeds

Weren't you talking about "Eva the Monument" a moment ago? Do "monuments" bring tidings of oblong eggs and/or LCL to distant worlds?

And, why does this discrepancy over Eva's purpose exist? You've got some people (and official sources) saying she exists only to aid the Lilim's evolution; she is just a means to an end. Then you have a couple of other people saying that the Lilim are just the means, and their only reason for being is to produce this thing they call "Eva"; and the only reason they provide for doing so is so that proof of their existence will be around for a rather long time.

In the first "scenario", Eva helps yield an immortal form of Lilim. The Lilim themselves will theoretically last forever, in a new form. Eva doesn't really matter in and of herself.

In the second, the Lilim produce an immortal entity, then proceed to die off when their time comes. Eva remains and will theoretically last forever.

If "eternal proof that humanity existed" is all there was to it, then Operation Adam Kadmon (= Singular Being) would have sufficed.

Oh come on, you know damn well if she brushed it off for someone else to handle nothing good would have come from it.

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Postby Rawinder » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:33 am

Reichu wrote:I wonder how to reconcile the "lonely" stuff with the fact that she technically isn't alone -- the Spear is a living thing with a "will". Leaves some elbow room for my idea that she's taking some souls with her, kekeke.


Well, it's not like she's going to talk to the thing.

Reichu wrote:Also, the whole "monument" thing never really sat with me. Leaving Earth with the Spear to provide proof that her people existed long after the fact... There's something fishily Seed-like about it. Not to mention she is like an uber-version of a first generation Seed at that point.


If she was going to spawn another species on another planet, they wouldn't have included the bits about her being "one soul," "lonely existence," and floating around after all life had ended. I think it's pretty clear she'll be spending eternity as mankind's gravestone.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:06 am

Reichu wrote:
Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Oh come on, you know damn well if she brushed it off for someone else to handle nothing good would have come from it.

Don't follow.

It's not like she had much of a choice in the matter. She was already blacklisted and as good as dead once the Test Type was complete. But sitting back and letting SEELE do what they wanted is a BAD thing, sue her she decided to do something about it.

And, why does this discrepancy over Eva's purpose exist?

Because Yui and SEELE have differing ideas about what Eva is for would be the obvious answer.

Rawinder wrote:I think it's pretty clear she'll be spending eternity as mankind's gravestone.

MAYBE the tombstone of humanity on Earth, as we now know humanity extends far beyond this quaint little ball of water of ours, well in NGE at least.
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Postby Themaninblack » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:14 pm

MULTIQUOTE PURGED. HINT-HINT.

Well that depends greatly...Yui melted away Gendou's uncertainites mayybe there was a gal who could have done that for Shinji
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Postby Opteron-O3 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:38 pm

With that said, he would be just like his dad. He found the girl who actually loves him, but if he loses her it'll be 4i :lol:

No but seriously. It was better for Shinji to have taken control of 3i. Mainly because he was able to realize how important life is and how being "hurt" isn't always a bad thing, but something that can be used as a way to improve one self into becoming a better person, etc...

It's a lesson of life learned the hard way... but it worked ;)
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