Why did The Angels want to kill us?

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Why did The Angels want to kill us?

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Postby Themaninblack » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:26 pm

I got a lot in NGE...but never one of the most basic things...why do the rest of the Angels want to become one with Adam?
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:32 pm

Not all of them did. That was SEELE's propaganda. It all boiled down to them not wanting god-like creatures beyond their control wondering around in such ways that their plans may be fouled up in the process. Lilim fired the first shot in the war, we were the aggressors. Perhaps given time the Angels would have grown annoyed with their Lilim cousins and do away with them but that's something we'll never know. All we do know is they appeared to want to meet the rest of their family using Armi as an example. Certain ones such as Zeruel were probably quite pissed at what was being done to their siblings and had a revenge kick but you can hardly blame them.

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Postby Themaninblack » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:56 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Not all of them did. That was SEELE's propaganda. It all boiled down to them not wanting god-like creatures beyond their control wondering around in such ways that their plans may be fouled up in the process. Lilim fired the first shot in the war, we were the aggressors. Perhaps given time the Angels would have grown annoyed with their Lilim cousins and do away with them but that's something we'll never know. All we do know is they appeared to want to meet the rest of their family using Armi as an example. Certain ones such as Zeruel were probably quite pissed at what was being done to their siblings and had a revenge kick but you can hardly blame them.



But an awful lot like the first three began the attack...
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:23 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:<snip>
The CI almost specifically states that the Angels were trying to recover Adam or find Lilith and "reset all life". If they weren't, then it sure is funny that they all kinda showed up around Japan when 2I happened at the South Pole. Plus, there's a lot of Angels that launched the attack first (Ramiel, Zeruel and Ireul spring directly to mind). Not to mention Misato specifically stating that Lilim and Angels can't co-exist. Oh, and there's no evidence to suggest that Zeru was "pissed" because of what happened to the other angels...
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:24 pm

The Katsuragi research team turned Adam into a science experiment that ended with Adam going boom. Kinda hard to get around that as the first shot don't ya think? And watch Sachiel very closely, he didn't do anything but was fired upon the moment the Japanese military sighted him and he still didn't get really serious until the N^2 mine hit him. What ever happened after those events is on SEELE's hands.

Eva Yojimbo wrote:The CI almost specifically states that the Angels were trying to recover Adam or find Lilith and "reset all life".

Read it again, it specifically says some of them had NOTHING in mind.

Oh, and there's no evidence to suggest that Zeru was "pissed" because of what happened to the other angels...

What do you call going right for the NERV command staff with an overkill value of OVER 9000, curse you Reichu and that DBZ crap.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:28 pm

It's very much implied that the Angels were all working seperately towards their own goals for survival. But if they didn't have some purpose in mind (like finding Lilith and wiping Lilim out) then it's awfully funny they kept showing up exactly where she was and finding new and exciting ways to try and get to her. And like I said, plenty of Angels attacked first, and there's no evidence to show that they had any clue what happened to their siblings.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Read it again, it specifically says some of them had NOTHING in mind.
You do know what "some" means right? It also says "some" were trying to find Lilith and "reset all life".

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
What do you call going right for the NERV command staff with an overkill value of OVER 9000
An angel on a mission (trying to get to Lilith) swatting pesky flies out of its way.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:33 pm

Areal made it clear they have telepathic abilities. Didn't you buy into the Armi reserection theory? The crux of that was Armi was talking to the other Angels thus knew what they looked like. I don't at all find it absurd that they could sense what happened to their siblings, well the ones on Earth atleast, kinda hard to miss a massive S^2 release like the one Sachiel pulled out of his ass so-to-speak. Some seem openly hostile while others seem indifferent to their cousins. Would it have got to hell at some point? More than likely, yes, but this doesn't change the fact that we started it.
Last edited by Anonymous_Evafan on Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:34 pm

EDIT: ZOMG THREAD REPLY RUSH

Jimbo wrote:it's awfully funny they kept showing up exactly where she was and finding new and exciting ways to try and get to her.

Some of them weren't trying very hard.

there's no evidence to show that they had any clue what happened to their siblings.

Arguably, Armisael knew.

AEF wrote:What do you call going right for the NERV command staff with an overkill value of OVER 9000

"GWARRRRRR KILL LILIM AT POINT-BLANK RANGE!!!!"

curse you Reichu and that DBZ crap.

"Over 9000!!!" was ubiquitous before I ever laid meathook on the show.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:40 pm

Arael made it clear that IT had telepathic abilities. We might've started it, but there's no reason to think the Angels WOULDN'T have started it. I mean, are we not believe Misato's statement that we can't co-exist with the Angels? Plus, there would be little point to the entire conflict if the Angels weren't trying to wipe us out and reset Earth for themselves (well, Seele needing that pesky S2 not withstanding).

And if the Angels weren't hostile then again I ask: Why did they keep showing up where Lilith/Adam were? I mean, if we're going to apply any logic at all, then they certainly didn't all land right near Japan after 2I. So they were definitely GOING there. And even if I was to believe the "they were all psychic and knew what happened to each other" (which I don't entirely) then there's still nothing to explain Sachiel's showing up right near the Geo-Front.

Reichu wrote:Some of them weren't trying very hard.
I'm content to think that most were very instinctively driven. When Adam gives you lemons, you make lemonade (Matarael and the whole brilliant idea of burning its way to TD).

Reichu wrote:Arguably, Armisael knew.
Perhaps with that exception.

Reichu wrote:"GWARRRRRR KILL LILIM AT POINT-BLANK RANGE!!!!"
There's Lilim all over Earth. It was definitely blasting and smashing its way (uber Hulk style) through the Geo-Front, through Nerv HQ, TOWARD something.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:21 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote:And if the Angels weren't hostile then again I ask: Why did they keep showing up where Lilith/Adam were? I mean, if we're going to apply any logic at all, then they certainly didn't all land right near Japan after 2I. So they were definitely GOING there. And even if I was to believe the "they were all psychic and knew what happened to each other" (which I don't entirely) then there's still nothing to explain Sachiel's showing up right near the Geo-Front.

He seemed remarkably unhostile even when being fired upon. If anything it looked like we was holding back considering what happened after the N^2 blast. Either way he had every right to want the Lilim gone, after all the killed his mother. Something the CI implies the Angels knew since some were looking for Adam specifically. But for the sake of amusement, where exaclty was Lilith? The Black Moon which is almost identical to, ZOMG, the White Moon. This is perhaps the only familiar landmark on the planet. You certainly can't say Leliel was overtly hostile just sitting in the center of the city doing nothing. You're generalizing, they weren't all hostile, some just wanted to live with their family. I might add something the Lilim wouldn't let happen. I ask you is there anything wrong with that? They're just kids that got dragged into a war and I don't blame any of them for their actions since we gave them every reason to be hostile towards us.

I'm content to think that most were very instinctively driven.

This flies in the face of them being human. Armi gave us great insight into just how alike we are emotionally. Kaworu followed up with yet another display of deep thought and self-awareness.

There's Lilim all over Earth. It was definitely blasting and smashing its way (uber Hulk style) through the Geo-Front, through Nerv HQ, TOWARD something.

So then why exactly did he feel the need to stop and point-blank overkill this particular group of Lilim? He didn't rip the Evas apart to kill the pilots yet decided to obliterate the command staff.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:13 am

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
after all the killed his mother. Something the CI implies the Angels knew since some were looking for Adam specifically.
You make some radical conclusions based on very little to no evidence. How would the angels, in an egg-like stasis, know WTF happened to Adam? Just because they were looking for it doesn't mean they knew what happened.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:But for the sake of amusement, where exaclty was Lilith? The Black Moon which is almost identical to, ZOMG, the White Moon.
I'm not sure I see your point. If we're assuming the Angels didn't all land RIGHT NEAR the Black Moon, then there's some reason they were going there. Either something was drawing them, or they already knew something was there they needed/wanted.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:You're generalizing, they weren't all hostile
I didn't say they all were.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:I might add something the Lilim wouldn't let happen. I ask you is there anything wrong with that? They're just kids that got dragged into a war and I don't blame any of them for their actions since we gave them every reason to be hostile towards us.
Again, I'm assuming there's some reason the Angels and Lilim can't co-exist like Misato said. I figured this likely had something to do with Earth being the way it is. If, like the CI said, some were seeking Lilith to "reset all life", then I'm assuming some had their own version of 3I in mind - likely reformatting the Earth for their own needs.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:This flies in the face of them being human. Armi gave us great insight into just how alike we are emotionally. Kaworu followed up with yet another display of deep thought and self-awareness.
I have a very difficult time believing that all the Angels were as smart as humans. Especially ones like Sahaquiel who turned itself into a giant suicide bomber. And despite the whole deal with "Angels and humans being the same" there are some very obvious differences.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
So then why exactly did he feel the need to stop and point-blank overkill this particular group of Lilim? He didn't rip the Evas apart to kill the pilots yet decided to obliterate the command staff.
Because they were in his way. Like I said, brushing off the annoying flies.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:16 am

I really want to see how some of those "Bad End"s would have worked out.

Seriously. What exactly is an offspring of Adam going to do with Lilith? Yeah, yeah, "reset" the planet and all that nonsense, but, uh, how exactly is that supposed to work? "What is this giant, soulless marshmallow-thing and how can it help me wipe this planet clean of invasive LCL-scum? Or am I down here to destroy it, because I hate it? What the hell am I doing?!?"

And what would they do with a soulless embryo, for that matter? "Mommy! Mommy! Say something!!! MOMMY!!!! ;_;"

Poor kids.

Jimbo wrote:I have a very difficult time believing that all the Angels were as smart as humans.

"Intelligence" is relative.

Especially ones like Sahaquiel who turned itself into a giant suicide bomber.

Hakone would be gone, but Sahaquiel wouldn't.

And despite the whole deal with "Angels and humans being the same" there are some very obvious differences.

Fundamentally "human" entities being made to play out wildly different existences, I would say. (Otherwise, they wouldn't have bothered with the WE ARE ANGELS AND THE OTHER ANGELS ARE HUMAN stuff.)
Last edited by Reichu on Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:24 am

Reichu wrote:
Seriously. What exactly is an offspring of Adam going to do with Lilith? Yeah, yeah, "reset" the planet and all that nonsense, but, uh, how exactly is that supposed to work?
Body/soul of ADO joins with body of Lilith, Massive ATF commences with S2, tanging the planet, and reformatting (reseting) for ADO. Atleast, that's my guess. As to exactly HOW this would happen (the mechanics behind it), I really don't know.

Reichu wrote:And what would they do with a soulless embryo, for that matter? "Mommy! Mommy! Say something!!! MOMMY!!!! ;_;"

Poor kids.
I LOLed. :lol:

Reichu wrote:"Intelligence" is relative.
True, but I don't see the Angels plotting their next movie with great army general like precision with computers and and a blackboard handy....

Reichu wrote:
Hakone would be gone, but Sahaquiel wouldn't.
How do we know?
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Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Reichu » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:28 am

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Body/soul of ADO joins with body of Lilith, Massive ATF commences with S2, tanging the planet, and reformatting (reseting) for ADO.

But it, like, makes no sense. "I want to format the planet for my own kind. Therefore, I will use the antithesis of our mother."

And don't forget what happened when a certain Lilim touched Adam the wrong way.

Don't go touching other people's mommies. It's BAAAAAAAD.

Jimbo wrote:True, but I don't see the Angels plotting their next movie with great army general like precision with computers and a blackboard handy....

For some reason, I doubt most people who choose a really big, bizarro form upon birth (well... hatching) and only live for a matter of days (outside the egg) WOULD do such things.

Hakone would be gone, but Sahaquiel wouldn't.
How do we know?

"My A.T. Field will protect me."
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:43 am

Reichu wrote:But it, like, makes no sense. "I want to format the planet for my own kind. Therefore, I will use the antithesis of our mother."

And don't forget what happened when a certain Lilim touched Adam the wrong way.

Don't go touching other people's mommies. It's BAAAAAAAD.
Something in NGE doesn't make sense? Unpossible! ;)

I've very much started thinking that it has something to do with SOL having some kind of special body material needed to withstand 3I. Adam blowing up, Lilith falling apart - that kinda thing seems to take a toll on whomever does it. So if that's the case, it's possible that an Angel wouldn't have the strength to do it on their own and need a SOL body for support (for lack of a better word.

Reichu wrote:
For some reason, I doubt most people who choose a really big, bizarro form upon birth (well... hatching) and only live for a matter of days (outside the egg) WOULD do such things.
It's possible the Angels could've been as smart as humans, but if we were to think of them like humans, then if they just hatched they would literally be kids. Or atleast have a minimally developed brain and thinking capacities. Which is why I think they were relying a lot of primal instincts.

Reichu wrote:"My A.T. Field will protect me."
Wasn't it planning on using its own body as a bomb? If that's so, he can ATF all it wants, but if the body had exploded, that would've likely been it.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:47 am

Eva Yojimbo wrote:
Reichu wrote:Hakone would be gone, but Sahaquiel wouldn't.
How do we know?

ep12 plat subs wrote:Misato:
Was that an AT Field?

RITSUKO:
It's a new way of using it.

Misato:
What incredibly destructive power.
That's an AT Field!

IBUKI:
It's using kinetic energy too.

The destruction is caused by the contact of the Angel's ATF, extra oomph is added by the kinetic energy of the falling Angel.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:56 am

Alrighty then. :)
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Postby Reichu » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:44 am

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Adam blowing up

That was due to the S2 going batshit crazy. Adam didn't even get to finish what she started.

Lilith falling apart

We don't even know why that happened. (We don't even know why Rei started doing it beforehand, for that matter...)

It's possible the Angels could've been as smart as humans, but if we were to think of them like humans, then if they just hatched they would literally be kids.

I do refer to them in that vein a lot. ;)

Or atleast have a minimally developed brain and thinking capacities.

I wonder how that works, considering the transmogrification bit...

But, then, they enjoy defying explanation. Just look at how many of them manage to bleed.
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Postby master0rolando » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:04 am

ive never seen anything to suggest that the Angels act on any "feelings" other than instinct...other than Armisael, Lillith, and Tabris obviously...

the only evidence that Angels posses intelligence is how Bardiel was smart enough to take over Unit 03

(i mustve missed something...how do we know that Armisael is aware of the fates of the other Angels?)

revenge doesn't seem like a conept they would understand or experience...

Sachiel seems like he didnt attack anything during the airplanes firing probly because it didnt bother him...its not like it seemed to hurt or anything...

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:36 am

So picking a form so complex only a select few Lilim on the planet could even hope to make sense of doesn't hint that they may be more intelligent than most people give them credit for? SEELE even said they're getting smarter. Keep in mind they're like 15ish so Zer going you hurt my family now I hurt you isn't outlandish. Look at the way the Angels tend to inflict non-lethal damage to the Evas unless they've been backed into a corner.

Eva Yojimbo wrote:have a very difficult time believing that all the Angels were as smart as humans.

Not every Lilim on the planet is the brightest you know. Just because one of them was an absolute dunce doesn't mean they all are.

Because they were in his way. Like I said, brushing off the annoying flies.

I'm going to take time out of my day to stop and fully carge my eyes in perparation to utterly annihilate some people that I could have just as easily ignore because they're really just insects from my POV. Yeah, that makes loads of sense. I give the Angels more credit than that being they are a type of human.


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