How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby TraxXavier » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:16 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Indeed. But, let's leave the axial tilt bit aside -- gaffes show up every now and then, and it's not crucial to the plot anyway, so best to just sideline it and move on. Let's think about the rest, and how we might reconcile all of it. First, the destruction of Antarctica. What does that mean, exactly? I mean, I talked above about an explosion that annihilated the landmass, but is that all it can be? The Antarctica we know is just a sheet of ice, really; if that ice is melted Antarctica is effectively destroyed, even though the landmass is relatively untouched. And we know from ep 21' that it was really hot around the research area. What if, once the Anti-ATF was deployed, that heat encompassed most of the continent, such that the ice (relatively) quickly melted? The landmass underneath would eventually rise to the surface, but that would take quite a long time -- I'm not sure how long, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took decades, or even centuries. So, as of 2015, it's possible Antarctica is still there, but is mostly underwater. And if it's underwater ships can easily sail above it, and voila! Script integrity is maintained and we don't have to deal with a planetary disaster.


TraxXavier wrote:to melt all 30 million km3 ice on the antarctic, one would need 4.52e+26 J i.e. 108 billion megatons TNT
...

to put it into perspective, the earth gets 8.64e+24 J of energy from the sun per year,
now I'm wondering it that makes sense, it would mean that we would need the total energy of the sunn for 52 years to melt the south pool down completely.
Yea given the antarctic ice sheet is hundreds of thousands years old that is plausible....


Or lets say it different: 2 million tons of Antimatter.

nope, nope, nope, just nope... no angel or whatever is ever going to generate this much energy.

I'm quite sure man kind could never survive a energy release on earth at this magnitude. So really melting down the antarctic ice sheet in only a few minutes or even hours is not going to happen, without killing everything else on earth.

Also iirc. the antarctic land mass is not below sea level so if one would melt all the ice you will just end up with a continent.
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:42 am

View Original PostTraxXavier wrote:Also iirc. the antarctic land mass is not below sea level so if one would melt all the ice you will just end up with a continent.

A series of islands, actually. A lot of the land mass is lower than it would be otherwise due to the weight of the ice, but it's true that not all of it would be underwater even if the ice magically disappeared tomorrow. It's also true that there's no way to rationally make 2I work; I just figured a rationale involving a lot of melt vs. a titanic explosion would be a slightly less insane way to go. -o-;
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Tarnsman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:35 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Did you miss the part where I said "But, let's leave the axial tilt bit aside -- gaffes show up every now and then, and it's not crucial to the plot anyway, so best to just sideline it and move on."?


No but I refused to acknowledge it because it's retarded. You can't just elect to ignore every measurable the show gives to the power of the blast that caused 2nd impact. I understand why you're doing it, because there is no way to argue that an explosion that destroyed part of a city is equal to an explosion that destroyed an area 6,000 times the size of Tokyo and threw Earth off its axis. So all you're left with is calling the facts the show gives you about the power of an explosion 'gaffes'.
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:45 pm

Given that the show cannot be made physically correct or consistent, it's a personal choice what you sideline to enable it to work for you
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:02 pm

"It's not crucial to the plot anyway" -- NONE of this is crucial to the plot. Like, however the hell Misato survives 2I doesn't matter at all, just the fact that she did.

I'm tellin' ya, an A.T. Field did it.
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:45 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:I understand why you're doing it, because there is no way to argue that an explosion that destroyed part of a city is equal to an explosion that destroyed an area 6,000 times the size of Tokyo and threw Earth off its axis.


No, that's not the reason I was doing it. If you check my initial post in the thread you'll see I was responding to Paul, who noted that an axial shift would be an extinction level event without question. Remember the arguments NemZ and Mr. Tines like to make about how the world is fucked after 3rd Impact? They're based on the tsunami effects of a 100 km-tall being falling into the ocean. Now, what sorts of tsunami effects do you suppose are likely if Antarctica is destroyed by an explosion? And, moreover, what sorts of additional tsunami effects do you think might occur if the explosion's severe enough to actually shift the Earth's axis? Leaving aside the very fine points TraxXavier made (which ultimately indicate that my alternate theory isn't any better than the standard narrative since it continues to ignore yet other problems that would be even worse in effect than what I was addressing), anything that could actually do what's described in the show would be an absolute game-ender. There's just no way to fanwank about it, it just fucks the story from the outset.

With the above being the case (and, I think, not at all in dispute), I instead said "hey, wait a minute, we have another record of an S2 explosion occurring over the course of the show, so why not use that as a point of comparison?" The idea was that Antarctica went away because of 2I voodoo, but that the actual explosion associated with it was no worse than what we saw with Sachiel, nor even what we saw in 3I (which didn't even involve an S2 explosion, and yet was obviously perfectly survivable). This would let us shove the 2I elements into the background and conclude that the actual explosion and ATF effects that Misato had to deal with were in fact survivable, whereas the standard narrative does not afford such an opportunity.

Like it or not this is a gaffe, because the explanation presented just doesn't work. The alternative I provided doesn't really work either, at least not with the mechanism supplied, but the idea there was to provide a palatable alternative that at least somewhat worked, not to indulge in bogus comparisons merely for the sake of doing so (and, to be clear, responding to such an alternative with the standard narrative is disingenuous -- if everyone agrees that the standard narrative doesn't work you can't really use it as an argument against proposed alternatives. The entire reason the alternatives were proposed in the first place is because the standard narrative doesn't work!). What that means is that Adam's explosion didn't destroy a continent, and that the axial shift bit is something we just have to ignore since there's no way whatsoever to include it in the story and still have multicellular life on planet Earth afterwards. Sometimes authors screw up, and it falls to fans of the story to handwave like mad to come up with a way to make the story work regardless. This is one of those times!

In some ways Sachiel's self-destruction in ep 1-2 is a gift, since it lets us say, "okay, this is what happens when an S2 explodes, so that's all we really have to deal with when it comes to Misato's survival; the rest of 2I and Antarctica's destruction is something we have to deal with separately, and the less said about the shifting axis business the better."

That said, the rational alternative is "fuck it, it's a story, it's about kids learning to accept themselves and other human beings, I don't give a shit about the details", which is totally legit -- I've written a fanfic based on that very premise! So if people elect to ignore fanwanking that attempts to make the story work despite numerous elements that completely torpedo it, so be it -- I'm completely on-board with that.
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Moap » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:26 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:"It's not crucial to the plot anyway" -- NONE of this is crucial to the plot. Like, however the hell Misato survives 2I doesn't matter at all, just the fact that she did.

I'm tellin' ya, an A.T. Field did it.


Well now you're not even contributing to the discussion and just being salty.

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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Reichu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:00 pm

View Original PostMoap wrote:Well now you're not even contributing to the discussion and just being salty.

...Says someone who hasn't contributed to the discussion, period. :p
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Tetsuo » Wed May 04, 2016 5:37 pm

She survived because Anno was feeling tired and he needed a back story for Misato. So he just said fuck it and wrote in a plot hole.
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby sephirotic » Mon May 09, 2016 4:06 pm

Antartica is not just Ice, close to the Geographic South Pole, the landmass altitude is 4km above the Sea level.

We are never actually shown if the entire Antartica and its landmass was vaporized or not. But I never assumed that the Second Impact completely melted and destroyed Antartica. When we see Fuyutsuki and Gendou sailing on the "South Pole" I always thought it was not all the way inlads and LITERALLY the geographic sout pole, but more towards the periphery of it.
It always stroke me that the event was something similar to what happened to Unit 04: A Sea of Dirac absorbing everything around it. So is not that Antartica was melted, it was sucked away.

My only issue is the Axis tilt. No matter how big the explosion, any kinetic force strong enough to shift earth's axis tilt by more than 5 degrees in a few seconds, would have rip apart a piece of Earth together with it exposing a massive part of its mantle. So it couldn't have happened with a simple explosion. Alternative explanations are needed, maybe the DIRAC sea absorbing a large part of Earth's crust was responsible for it shifting it's center of mass a little? It would be interesting to calculate how much Antartica "weights" and how much the center of mass of Earth would shift and what impacts to the axial tilt that would have on Earth. Although "Chopping" away the whole Antarctica, would expose a large portion of the mantle and would likely vaporizes a considerably large amount of the ocean. Hell, I think the ocean levels would have DROPPED instead of Increased! Furthermore, removing mass from earth would throw it further away from the sun, even without the Axial Tilt and different seasons, the amount of energy received by the sun would reduce and Earth would inevitably cool down, unless all that water vaporized increased the greenhouse effect and thus compensated for the reduced solar radiation.
Jeez, so many factors, calculating everything properly would be years worth of research, I can forgive Anno for making some inconsistencies regarding that, considering he done Eva before the HTTP era.
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Re: How did Misato survive the second impact, shouldnt there be some anti AT-Field?

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Postby Kendrix » Tue May 31, 2016 4:48 am

Well, we shouldn't forget that this was not a regular explosion, but a weird semi-magical event we're only shown intentionally vague flashes of. (with the implication that there's way worse, EoE like mindfuckery off-screen with the white shining adam hands and all that)
It doesn't have to follow the same rules as a RL blast.

There was probably some sort of eye-of-the-storm effect, but even that is speculation.
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