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Re: Star Wars

Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:37 pm

View Original PostGlor wrote:I think your second point there answers the one above it.
SPOILER: Show
This Staw Wars gave us Stormtroopers who were, for once, very good at killing things. I think the scene with the Stormtrooper and his wicked arm-shock-stick-thing was to give the audience the hint that these guys at least know their way around melee combat. So I found Finn's ability with the saber believable.


Yeah, that's a fair point. It was kind of weird, but was sold enough in other contexts that I could buy it after a bit of thought.

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Bags, I was expecting that speech from the trailer at the end.


Honestly, I thought the whole last sequence would have worked better at the beginning of the next movie. I get what Abrams/Kasdan were trying to do there, but after the whole climax was wrapped up it just fell into LOTR syndrome.

As to Ren, I get that he's exactly what he's supposed to be. I just don't care for that sort of character as an antagonist.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Glor » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:42 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Are able to be force persuaded by an untrained novice despite being "conditioned from birth" you would think that would be part of the conditioning.


All fair criticisms, except for that one-
SPOILER: Show
Considering there is only one Jedi left in the entire galaxy, I can't imagine training your troops to resist force persuasions being much of a concern or priority. I'm not sure why being mentally and physically conditioned from birth to be soldiers also has to include resisting force powers just incase of the infinitesimal chance you run into a Jedi. My original point was that it isn't unbelievable Finn was able to throw around a lightsaber.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:54 pm

After going back and forth on this whole thing, I've decided that I feel the same way about Force Awakens as I do Return of the Jedi. All good movies, but they also bank on some pretty unexciting and silly plot devices sometimes.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:09 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yeah, that's a fair point. It was kind of weird, but was sold enough in other contexts that I could buy it after a bit of thought.



Honestly, I thought the whole last sequence would have worked better at the beginning of the next movie. I get what Abrams/Kasdan were trying to do there, but after the whole climax was wrapped up it just fell into LOTR syndrome.

As to Ren, I get that he's exactly what he's supposed to be. I just don't care for that sort of character as an antagonist.


They hinted at some kind of transformation for him, so there's that.

I like the way this film handled lightsabers.

SPOILER: Show
Let's just toss out all that "nine styles" lightsaber-fu wushu bullshit right now. Luke in the first films had zero training in how to use the signature weapon of the Jedi and held his own and eventually defeated Darth Vader with it. It makes plenty of sense that a Force user would pick up the lightsaber technique incredibly quickly. Lightsaber combat should be more of a mental discipline than a physical one. As for Finn wielding it... Ren kicked his ass.

The saber fight felt more like the OT than anything in the prequels. They weren't magic vorpal swords that cleave off a limb without effort in the OT and they were treated like they have weight instead of deadly flashlights that you can whip around as fast as you can move the handle. I liked it.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:21 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:They hinted at some kind of transformation for him, so there's that.


SPOILER: Show
That was before he killed Han, surely.


I like the way this film handled lightsabers.


SPOILER: Show
To be fair, they were "magic vorpal swords that [clove] off limbs without effort in the OT." There were several examples, starting in Mos Eisley!
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:41 pm

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Mos Eisley is really the only example. Luke and Vader hit each other with their sabers more than once. When one chops off the other's hand it appears to take some effort, it's not as effortless as swinging a flashlight around. There really aren't that many lightsaber fights in the OT.

There might be some magical limb chopping in the beginning of ROTJ that I'm forgetting since Luke pulls out a saber then, too.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Ray » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:02 pm

Just saw The Force Awakens. I'll be posting my full thoughts about it after I've had some time to think about it.

2nd best movie of the year behind Fury Road, and 3rd best Star Wars movie behind Empire and ROTJ.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:20 am

^ I liked A New Hope better (before to was called A New Hope), though I kind of rank my SW movies like:

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars
3. Return of the Jedi (Mostly trite garbage with enough awesome Luke vs Vader scenes for me to forgive the whole movie.)

For me, Force Awakens of right up there Return of the Jedi at #3, as it is mostly repeating New Hope (much like Jedi also did), but with enough new and awesome stuff in the beginning for me to forgive it.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:51 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Wait, what?


In the new novel Tarkin, it has been established under the new canon that the first name of the terrifying overlord of the Empire....is Sheev
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

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Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:50 pm

Overall, I liked it, but Abrams loves his callbacks as much as he did for the 2 Star Trek films, eh? I needed more world-building though, in terms of little issues!

Onto theories:

SPOILER: Show
Time will tell for sure, but Rey and Ben are either siblings (Han/Lelia's kids) or cousins (Luke's daughter), hm? The ending of the film and symbolism of the old helmet and the lightsaber makes me lean towards Rey = Skywalker's girl, though.

And I bet this is just another Tuesday morning for Han, though I will be annoyed if Movie 9 ends with both Han and Luke force ghosts. :|The callback to Obi Wan vs Darth was obvious; I'm shocked James and Mike didn't pick up on it in their spoiler review.


They just have to end at Movie 9 and leave it alone. Please, Di$ney. :crybaby:
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:13 pm

So upon watching the movie I thought it was a fun time, rey is one of my least favourite elements of this movie though, she is just so incredibly bland overall and has no real meat to her and seems to only live off her success's (some of which I might add come right out of left field).
So yeah I would say the people calling her a mary sue are accurate with the term this time.

Overall though I at least liked it enough to where I will see the sequel.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Glor » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:48 pm

^Hm... then by that logic Luke Skywalker is a Gary Stu? What were some of the left field successes you had issue with? Just curious.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:06 pm

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Rey literally just learned that she is force sensitive and yet she somehow already knows what a force pull/push is and what Jedi mind tricks are, my question is: How?
No really how? I'm not even questioning her ability to do these things just to know that they exist at all. Nobody has taught her these things, and last I checked they were not common knowledge.
And lets not even get into the fact that she can somehow defeat a (admittedly only ever so slight more trained) sith with what to me felt like not even all of her strength.

There are other problems I have but that just highlights a few of the more obvious ones.
Just saying there are much better ways to write strong female characters than this.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Ray » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:09 pm

I think this is the first time since the first Star Wars where I've actually seen someone bleed in a Star Wars movie.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Gob Hobblin » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:12 pm

Well, there was blood in Empire Strikes Back (Luke getting banged up by the wampa). And intestines (the tauntaun).

Also, there wasn't blood that I can remember in RotJ, but the Gamorrean getting crunched by the rancor wasn't exactly family-friendly.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tankred » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:18 pm

Might be going to see it soon for the best character:

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Dream » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:23 pm

TRAITOR

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*spins*


Btw on Rey pulling jedi tricks out of nowhere, she just knew i guess. I haven't seen the original trilogy but from what i've heard the force was more of this pervasive spiritual power somewhat analogous to Buddhist enlightement than midiclorian power-level, so i suppose it's not too much of a stress to assume she had slight divine providence/natural hunch on how to do some of the stuff.

movie spoilers  SPOILER: Show
Her kicking Kylo Ren's ass was just absurd though, even when i though it was p cool.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:44 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:I think this is the first time since the first Star Wars where I've actually seen someone bleed in a Star Wars movie.


There is blood in A New Hope when Obi Wan cuts the guy's arm off in the bar. There is blood in quite a few places in Empire. I can't recall any blood in RoTJ.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Bagheera » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:07 pm

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:There are other problems I have but that just highlights a few of the more obvious ones.
Just saying there are much better ways to write strong female characters than this.


SPOILER: Show
The main problem here is that the movie is too stingy with important details; explanations are there, but they're typically in throwaway lines or other things that are easy to miss. In Rey's case, she recognizes Luke's name and seems very familiar with the legends surrounding him and the Jedi in general. So, she knew they could do these things, but didn't yet realize she could do them as well. Once she knew it was just a matter of listening to the Force and getting it to do what she wanted.


On another note:

SPOILER: Show
Note when Rey first starts to fight Kylo Ren she employs a lot of jabbing motions? That's because she's used to fighting with a staff. She's on the defensive until she starts to listen to the Force and use the lightsaber as, well, a sword. Once she does that the tide swings in her favor, as she's much stronger in the Force than Ren is. She isn't trained as a Jedi like he is, but she clearly knows how to fight -- her ability with her staff is comparable to that of a seasoned martial artist. How she got this ability growing up on Jakku is anyone's guess, same as how she got her knowledge of the intricacies of hyperdrives. But her physicality and combat abilities are those of a fighter, not a scavenger. Perhaps there's more to the story than we've been led to believe? I've seen it suggested elsewhere that she might be a survivor of the massacre on Luke's academy, and that she doesn't recall the events due to traumatic amnesia. I consider this unlikely due both to the fact that we saw a flashback of her as a child on Jakku and because Han didn't recognize her, but OTOH when Ren was informed a girl was with BB-8 his interest in the matter skyrocketed. Lots of people seem to think she's really dang important, even when they haven't been given reason to in the events as we saw them. So, that might be a hint that her abilities go deeper than raw talent.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Chainsaw Owl » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:41 pm

I just saw it and I'm absolutely speechless. Except for literally the last fifteen seconds, I don't think a more disappointing movie could have been made. I didn't think Clone Wars would ever be knocked off its rotten throne.

SPOILER: Show
Credit where credit is due, I liked Poe Dameron, but then again I've always liked my cocky do-or-die flyboys. It's just too bad he had to share the screen with Blandgirl and Somehow-The-Only-Stormtrooper-Completely-Immune-To-A-Lifetime-Of-Coldhearted-Warrior-Conditioning.


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