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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:36 am

Been messing about in Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes. PW and Phantom Pain really make Ground Zeroes the most heartbreaking MGS game, I think.

Hayter in the PW cassette tapes especially really sounded similar to Sutherland's GZ/TPP performances, I think. Of course, Hayter's voice was sadly messed up because he worked so hard (booze and cigs? :wink: ) to sound old in that and MGS4.

Major  SPOILER: Show
Medic's face being obscured throughout the GZ ending sequence and TPP's "Starring" Truth End listing Big Boss THEN the Medic/Venom are the biggest "I should have known" moments in-game :lol: Sneaky of Kojima to swap Medic and Jack's face models around in the Prologue/Truth!

One fan's thought process about SkullFace being the one who interfered with Zero/Big Boss patching things up was so true: Zero realizing in the 70's about The Boss's Will that Jack didn't until 2014, their roles being really reversed in the final goodbyes to each other... Indeed, the "words that kill are the words we never say." :crybaby:

Oh, and according to a Konami(?) Donna Bruke interview, she was helping Stefanie Joosten practice singing for the game. Quiet's song is meant to be "Her final words before death"... BUT, that could just be the mood the song is going for, no? Not necessarily that she died in the desert or Quiet won't "come back from the dead" in possible future games, like Gray Fox/Big Boss, etc
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:47 am

^

Endgame  SPOILER: Show

With this franchise more than most I could name, "Death of the Author" is in full swing at all times. It's clear Kojima-and-co operate only based on what was concretely depicted in previous works, and even that is no guarantee, as any number of apparent on-screen deaths can attest, and an implied walking-off-into-the-sunset is even further from that. But of course, it's just as likely the next time we hear about Quiet will be some horrible off-screen death, as happened to any number of characters I could name throughout the series.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:24 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:
Major  SPOILER: Show
Medic's face being obscured throughout the GZ ending sequence and TPP's "Starring" Truth End listing Big Boss THEN the Medic/Venom are the biggest "I should have known" moments in-game :lol: Sneaky of Kojima to swap Medic and Jack's face models around in the Prologue/Truth!

One fan's thought process about SkullFace being the one who interfered with Zero/Big Boss patching things up was so true: Zero realizing in the 70's about The Boss's Will that Jack didn't until 2014, their roles being really reversed in the final goodbyes to each other... Indeed, the "words that kill are the words we never say." :crybaby:

Oh, and according to a Konami(?) Donna Bruke interview, she was helping Stefanie Joosten practice singing for the game. Quiet's song is meant to be "Her final words before death"... BUT, that could just be the mood the song is going for, no? Not necessarily that she died in the desert or Quiet won't "come back from the dead" in possible future games, like Gray Fox/Big Boss, etc


SPOILER: Show

I actually prefer to think Quiet died in the desert for several reasons:

1) Transience seems to be an embedded part of her character, as is evident by the recurring butterfly motif. Quiet 'metamorphosed' from a vengeful soldier to the more compassionate character we see in the game, but the use of the butterfly implies that, like all things, she is mortal and cannot remain beside Snake forever.

2)Her death completes her character arc; while it is tragic, it serves as the culmination her and Venom's relationship. For her to survive or reappear through deus ex machine would completely cheapen the sadness her death creates.

3)The developer commentary states that she and Venom would be reunited in death, which certainly seems like a much more pleasant headcanon to keep for both characters (as in the 'Last Day in Outer Heaven' fancomic').

4) If there are any more MGS games, they won't involve Kojima. I would rather that Quiet remains as the tragic and well-developed character she currently is (or rather was) rather than getting resurrected as Konami's new pachinko mascot. No, seriously, they're going into pachinko now.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:38 pm

@Shino: I know, it sucks regarding Konami. :| I still (probably foolishly) hope their hiring for more Metal Gear link I posted recently is an MG 1-2 remake, but it probably is damn pachinko. :facepalm: I've heard claims if Konami does more MGS, Kojima would at least supervise, but if they're parting ways, then how...?

Like I wrote after we beat the game, the ONLY more Metal Gear I'd ever want is

SPOILER: Show
MG 1-2 HD remake with Hayter as Solid and Sutherland as Venom and Big Boss. Other than that, the MGS series is perfectly finalized in my mind.

Hell, if Quiet is still alive, and if they wanted to go a dark route, I could actually see them having David (Solid) fight/kill her at the start of an MG1 remake, just to make the old fans hate him. -o-;


Regarding Quiet, I think
SPOILER: Show
although the actresses/singers (Bruke's the iDroid ^_^ ) and the developers mentioned that Quiet's Song is as if she died, we don't know for sure if that's how Kojima himself or other staff saw things. I think the ambiguity of her leaving is important, since a lot of the game's themes come down to "there are no facts, only interpretations". (Especially with Venom/Medic!)

Of course, maybe this is a topic that Kojima will eventually give his two cents on, since Quiet's so popular (for various reasons).

But eh. Outer Heaven fan-comic = my headcanon, unless we get official thoughts (Kojima himself) otherwise.


This topic reminds me. I've searched to no avail on Internet land, so are there any amazing fanarts out there of
Various series  SPOILER: Show
Big Boss, The Boss, and the rest of the "1st generation" cast (Paz, Chico, Ocelot, Venom, etc) reuniting in death? Could be amazingly beautiful if done right.

Something I've wanted to find ever since we beat TPP.

I've also love to see an MG1-based fanart of Solid fighting Venom...That would be just cool!


Too bad I can't draw, otherwise I wouldn't have to just hope for such great ideas :sigh:

If you can't tell, this series the past month has become a serious emotional investment for me. :crybaby:
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Postby BobBQ » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:08 pm

After playing for a month straight, I have finished the story.

It's too bad it wasn't everything Kojima envisioned, but it was still a hell of a ride. Quiet and D-Dog are the greatest buddies ever.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:30 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:
Regarding Quiet, I think
SPOILER: Show
although the actresses/singers (Bruke's the iDroid ^_^ ) and the developers mentioned that Quiet's Song is as if she died, we don't know for sure if that's how Kojima himself or other staff saw things. I think the ambiguity of her leaving is important, since a lot of the game's themes come down to "there are no facts, only interpretations". (Especially with Venom/Medic!)

Of course, maybe this is a topic that Kojima will eventually give his two cents on, since Quiet's so popular (for various reasons).

But eh. Outer Heaven fan-comic = my headcanon, unless we get official thoughts (Kojima himself) otherwise.


SPOILER: Show

I did always wonder if Mission 51's 'epic boss battle' against Eli!Sahelanthropus would have involved Quiet in some way, as it's basically Diamond Dogs using everything they have to bring the thing down...I guess we'll never know.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:37 pm

View Original PostBobBQ wrote:It's too bad it wasn't everything Kojima envisioned, but it was still a hell of a ride. Quiet and D-Dog are the greatest buddies ever.


Totally agreed :D Happy to hear you enjoyed it like we did!

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:
SPOILER: Show

I did always wonder if Mission 51's 'epic boss battle' against Eli!Sahelanthropus would have involved Quiet in some way, as it's basically Diamond Dogs using everything they have to bring the thing down...I guess we'll never know.


I think that probably would've been possible, considering
SPOILER: Show
since Quiet leaving is optional (she stays if you have the Butterfly Emblem and all), she could've been in the cut scenes and usual Buddy usage.

As I understand it, if you do kill Quiet* (WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT; SHE'S A PRECIOUS BUTTERFLY) the cut scenes just play without her there, right? I guess for obvious reasons there wouldn't be a her and Code Talker scene...

*Still just gives me a weird vibe from the Youtube clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-0KoCUVXjs


It's funny that the majority of relationships in MGS, I take them as they're given throughout the overall series (I do feel some legit "Gay for Big Boss" vibes from Miller and Ocelot, but I'm sure that's Kojima being Kojima considering his various bi characters/everyone wants the protagonist), but

Includes major  SPOILER: Show
Something about Venom/Quiet I can't help but "ship hard" for lack of a better term. -o-; It's been years since something (cough, LAS, cough) managed to give me major "shipping" feels like this. Though is it still shipping if the story supports it?

I honestly think if Quiet did know Venom wasn't Big Boss ("The patient in the next bed saw me", etc), it'd be a non-issue for her.

Heck, when you dress Venom up as (the real) Motorcycle Big Boss or as Solid Snake, your Mother Base soldiers say "Boss, I'll support you no matter who you are!", besides the fact this entire "not really Big Boss situation" is essentially this. :wink: Like I wrote in another post, Venom's smirk before the end sequence changed to Outer Heaven really said it all.
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Postby Blue Monday » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:24 pm

Some fucker infiltrated my FOB yesterday. Whilst they failed, they did manage to extract two A++ troops. Dime a dozen, I know, but I was completely ignorant of the fact that people could still invade you when you're offline, and I can't help but feel violated and somewhat vexed. Instantly poured hundreds of thousands in GMP into base defences last night and made sure all my S-rank and above guys are under direct contract. I never had any interest in FOB, in fact, it's actually become a liability now that I've pretty much developed everything and have completed all the unique combat deployments. Honestly, I wish I could decommission them so I can be left alone in peace, especially as there's no further rewards to reap in having them out there. I am quite keen on MGO, though.

Also, I've now completed all side ops and having the time of my life replaying the main missions; using gear and stuff I didn't the first time around. Only now am I realising that I basically did the whole game with nothing but CQC and the tranq pistol (outside of the mandatory battle sequences). It's a blast to go in with D-Walker and the like and do things the exact opposite way. 'Backup, Back Down' might just be my favourite mission to play around in.
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Postby BobBQ » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:26 pm

Just pay for the maximum level of security and don't bother with less-lethal weapons. If you do that, infiltrating an FOB is a lot harder than defending one.

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Postby ZapX » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:30 pm

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Postby IronEvangelion » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:57 pm

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:Some fucker infiltrated my FOB yesterday. Whilst they failed, they did manage to extract two A++ troops. Dime a dozen, I know, but I was completely ignorant of the fact that people could still invade you when you're offline, and I can't help but feel violated and somewhat vexed. Instantly poured hundreds of thousands in GMP into base defences last night and made sure all my S-rank and above guys are under direct contract. I never had any interest in FOB, in fact, it's actually become a liability now that I've pretty much developed everything and have completed all the unique combat deployments. Honestly, I wish I could decommission them so I can be left alone in peace, especially as there's no further rewards to reap in having them out there.


It really pissed me off when the game forced me to build one of the supposedly optional FOBs. Ever since then I've always declined the TOU and played offline. As long as I don't connect, I won't lose anyone. But yeah, that pretty much killed what little interest I had in that mode. They seriously need to patch in a way to get rid of unwanted FOBs. I just hope when MGO rolls out, it doesn't count as connecting the main game to the internet.
[Redacted]

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:21 pm

Help EGF, I can't hold all these feels T_T

Restarting TPP will probably be tomorrow but maybe we'll resume Side Ops tonight. Either way, I highly recommend the chronological feels trip. Everything, including the little things, fits perfectly.

I'd go into more detail but it's best to experience it yourself, though I will say MGS4 "Here's to You" made it something else.
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Postby IronEvangelion » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:36 pm

Isn't this going to be your third time re-playing TPP? Wow. :lol: I haven't decided yet whether or not I'm ever going to restart the entire game, but if I do I'll back up my current save on a USB stick first. I really wish TPP had multiple save slots like the older MGS games

Regarding a complete chronological playthrough of the series, I did that once in 2013 or 2014. I'd like to do it again now that TPP is out, but I'll probably just watch a youtube video when it comes to the original Metal Gear. After beating MG1 I remember resolving to never play it again. So many stupid ways to die in that game. :lol: Oddly enough I loved MG2:SS.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:57 pm

We finished TPP, started up a second play-through, then took a break to redo the entire series (with Side Ops of TPP in-between).

My first exposure to the full series was release order in 2012, so chronological this time around blew my mind. :lol:

MG2: SS music is sooo good! Definitely recommend the link we mentioned to Bags here if you want to get the stories without replaying: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/810544/M ... id/#810544

Put another way about this recent MGS experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv3AY58HMr4 :smirk: (Kaz = Kyon still makes my brain hurt. Haruhi must've subconsciously sent him there.)
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Postby BobBQ » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:16 pm

Got an idea for a mini-fic about Quiet. This could be a problem.

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Postby ZapX » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:11 pm

View Original PostBobBQ wrote:Got an idea for a mini-fic about Quiet. This could be a problem.


The Tenant of Room 101.
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Postby BobBQ » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:31 pm

Fuck no.

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Postby Blue Monday » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:49 am

Really good post over at Giant Bomb contextualising the ending of MGSV. It has a few kinks and I don't agree with all of its points exactly, but its broad-strokes address a lot of the common misconceptions I see all over the internet.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:17 am

View Original PostZapX wrote:The Tenant of Room 101.


Pfft, that guy had to shoot at point-blank to kill a cat. Quiet could have done it from the opposite building without being detected.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:26 am

Anyone in the mood for model swaps?
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image
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Honestly i would be much happier with ocelot like this than the bore he was in game.
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