Train motif question?

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:56 pm

^
Very true!

And he has gone on record about how "Japan is a nation of children" (Commenting how adult men read hentai manga on trains without shame, etc)...
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Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:58 pm

View Original PostAtropos wrote:Here's another take: kids in Japan are generally expected to be much more independent than their counterparts in the U.S. It's not uncommon for teenagers, or even younger kids, to take the train to school—often across significant distances. Now, Anno doesn't hate Japan, but I'm wondering if incorporating the train as Shinji's personal hell—and Shinji is the epitome of a child wrecked by apathetic parents—is meant to be a subtle critique of this institution, and the social norms that foster it.


Maybe not hate, but uh...

I don’t see any adults here in Japan,” he continued in the Atlantic interview. “The fact that you see salarymen reading manga and pornography on the train and being unafraid, unashamed or anything, is something you wouldn’t have seen 30 years ago, with people who grew up under a different system of government. They would have been far too embarrassed to open a book of cartoons or dirty pictures on a train. But that’s what we have now in Japan. We are a country of children.

Hideaki Anno, however he's decided to raise his own kid now, presented himself more as preferring a rough & tumble approach when he was making the show. He made the main characters 14, because he believed young kids needed to be exposed to "harsh truths" of the world as soon as possible.

Though he never spoke to it directly, I don't think he had any issue with expecting kids to take on responsibilities, given his issue with so many adult countrymen being left to an infantile state.
Last edited by Alaska Slim on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Reichu » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:01 pm

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:Hideaki Anno, however he's decided to raise his own kid now

What kid?

I'm also a little confused as to what's child-like about reading pornography on a train. Is that something that Japanese children are expected to do? :tongue:
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:What kid?


Ah, apparently I misinterpreted the Kantoku Fuyuki Todoki poster, nm. -o-;
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:46 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Is that something that Japanese children are expected to do? :tongue:


:lol: Teenagers/young adults = children in lots of people's minds, at least. :wink:
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Postby Dream » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:50 pm

Ehhh, more than a testament to the "abuse" of instilling a sense of self-reliance and confidence on a kid from an early age, i always took the fact a kid could actually do that in Japan to be a testament of just how safe their country is and how much trust they can place on their neighbours/public institutions.

While i like (possibly mistranslated) Anno as much as the next guy, i don't think showing pure despair or horrible things to a kid to be neccessarily an applaudable act.
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:35 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:What kid?

I'm also a little confused as to what's child-like about reading pornography on a train. Is that something that Japanese children are expected to do? :tongue:


He's actually espousing a fascist principle there, especially the traditionalist aspect described by Eco. On top of that given his own age he's basically saying that pre WWII Imperial Japan had its shit together. It would be the equivalent of an Italian saying that the generation that grew up under Mussolini were really manly men, not like these sissy boys today.

Also,

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

Anno is pretty full of shit, as most artists are.

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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby pwhodges » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:42 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:... pretty full of shit, as most people are.

(Fixed that for you)
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Shoujo Kakumei Asuka » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:04 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:He's actually espousing a fascist principle there, especially the traditionalist aspect described by Eco. On top of that given his own age he's basically saying that pre WWII Imperial Japan had its shit together. It would be the equivalent of an Italian saying that the generation that grew up under Mussolini were really manly men, not like these sissy boys today.

Anno is pretty full of shit, as most artists are.


I feel like he goes back and forth. He's also made quotes suggesting that otaku shouldn't be critiqued by non-otaku before. I would think that he has a conservative mindset though, with the caveat that he seems to be a feminist.
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby Dream » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:01 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:It would be the equivalent of an Italian saying that the generation that grew up under Mussolini were really manly men, not like these sissy boys today.


I'm not familiar with Italian history, but there actually is a huge topic/debate/whatever about Japan's recent history and relationship with their Ancient and Imperial past. Keep in mind much of their culture and tradition was pretty much burned out of them by American occupation and later by massive changes brought on by modernization. New/Old Japan divide is a duality much more alive than in other countries and while it's certainly hardly a vogue (or sane) statement to say Imperial Japan was great (why are we assuming he referred to Imperial Japan, actually?), it was a time where many aspects of Japanese tradition and culture were celebrated, and that's something that's worth remembering/preserving... just, preferably without insane militarism and pseudo-Bushido death worship.

I am also not sure if basic tenets of feminism go agaisnt Japanese traditional culture, but admittedly i'm not too familiar with Japanese history/culture myself.
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Postby Shoujo Kakumei Asuka » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:30 am

View Original PostIuvenal wrote:Comic removed - Staff

The funny thing is that the position expressed in this comic actually appears to be a common political talking point. Japan was nuked into cuteness culture. I do think it's insane to worship imperial Japan, and if that's what Anno was doing, it's shameful. However, it is a horrible problem how most cultures have become Americanized, and I can see legitimate critiques of modern Japanese culture in some of his statements.

On Topic-The train could be said to not just be symbolic of a small group of otaku, but of Japanese society in this manner, with Shinji as its representative. As a nation, they lack the presence they used to have, merely going around in circles without showing the decisiveness the Japanese people once did.
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Re: Not sure about that... B/

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Postby unz » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:20 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:He's actually espousing a fascist principle there, especially the traditionalist aspect described by Eco. On top of that given his own age he's basically saying that pre WWII Imperial Japan had its shit together. It would be the equivalent of an Italian saying that the generation that grew up under Mussolini were really manly men, not like these sissy boys today.

Also,

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

Anno is pretty full of shit, as most artists are.



Us italians are incredibly prone to self loathing to the point it became our point in humor and some insanely cruel and massive civil wars of the south are omitted from history books while left to teachers to explain. So it's no wonder blaming anything on people worked out so well for Mussolini, Berlusconi or even Grillo (this last guy being 100% anti fascist but still followed the same tactics to elections and party structure of hierarchy - brb will check the spelling).
I'm cutting some lines and what I want to say is all I read is self loathing instead of "fascism" because he's Anno and god knows if you can't find shit in Evangelion, haven't read the interview but he's supposed to be a guy hating not so much on the act of reading hentai in public but the couples not being allowed to display things such as kissing in public under some circustances which makes medias toys in the hands of children with little intimacy.
I'm not implying he must be a god mind deserving devotion or anything btw. Everyone's flawed and stuff and he probably buys the Japanese background he's from, where Japanese people are seen as lesser even after becoming a superpower burdened from losing the worst war. In a way eva boils down to a sentiment of "everyone is different so let's get along and leave the past behind" and fights some fears that drive people into submitting each other by extension, it makes sense to me he'd hate on something which ignores some audiences and is so massively produced it becomes the common denominator.


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