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Postby Shoujo Kakumei Asuka » Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:55 pm

View Original PostChainsaw Owl wrote:Paranoia Agent is the worst anime ever made, and I dearly wish that I could unwatch it.


...Are you joking?

Although it falls some in other areas, as an anime that made you think deeply it was on the same level as the show this board is devoted to. With commentary on Japanese society and the anime industry in addition to complex, well-written characters being introduced every episode. I know that this is for controversial anime opinions, but WOW.

Then again, if we're going to be dismissing series which are considered classics, Ergo Proxy bored me to the bone. It was just too... darn... slow.
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Postby Enki v.2 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:59 pm

View Original PostShoujo Kakumei Asuka wrote:...Are you joking?

Although it falls some in other areas, as an anime that made you think deeply it was on the same level as the show this board is devoted to. With commentary on Japanese society and the anime industry in addition to complex, well-written characters being introduced every episode. I know that this is for controversial anime opinions, but WOW.

Then again, if we're going to be dismissing series which are considered classics, Ergo Proxy bored me to the bone. It was just too... darn... slow.


I agree 100% with both of these.

I tried to watch Ergo Proxy. I really did. I tried to marathon it. I thought to myself, "I must be on episode, like, sixteen already." It turned out that I was, like, halfway through episode four. And nothing had happened yet.

I had basically the same problem with X. I got up to episode 17, but nothing interesting or clearly plot-relevant had happened yet (and I had read up to volume, like, 7 of the manga -- which was still further ahead). I was running out of episodes, yet every episode was roughly half a recap of the previous episode and half flashy but ultimately meaningless SFX.

Paranoia Agent, on the other hand... Well, I can see why somebody might not like it. In order to accept it, you need to accept -- basically -- chaos magic and tulpas, and this fact isn't properly revealed until like the second to last episode. But, hey -- you need to accept that in order to accept Bakemonogatari too.

OK, here's my best shot at a legitimately controversial anime opinion: Saber Marionette J is worth watching.

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Postby robersora » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:44 pm

I can see why people would dislike Paranoia Agent. I think it might be because of the bait and switch it does. The first three Episodes present you a whole different style of show it actually becomes. But I also think (like Enki), that if you can just accept it for what it is its brilliance reveals itself and you get a much better show than it would have been if it sticked with it's methodical detective show.
Also the ending is just brilliant.

Ergo Proxy suffers from a similar problem, the first three Episodes present you a totally different show it actually turns out to be. Also 13 Episodes would have been enough to get the point across. Additionally, it feels kind of like a prologue to a bigger story and it is kind of pretentious; it presents itself as much more complex it actually is for the sake of being cool... So it sadly did not live up to its potential, though I really like and respect it for what it tried to do.
Ergo Proxy, at least for me is like someone described Wagner. It has some really tiring stretches for sure, but it pays off with moments of brilliance. I'm in love with the first Episode, the ending of Episode three, the game show Episode or the Episode where they basically do nothing.

X has activates my nostalgia goggles in full force. After all I watched it secretly at night, when I was 8, so I won't be able to give a even remotely qualified opinion. :lol: All I can say is, I've rewatched it, like 3 years ago and enjoyed it tremendously.
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Postby Enki v.2 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:47 pm

More controversial anime opinions:

* Candidate for Goddess would have been a great first half for a 26-episode show. But, instead we got 13 episodes of build-up and no payoff. I assume the creators thought there would be a second season but got denied.

* GitS is not a cyberpunk anime, and neither is Lain. The only anime I've seen that's even vaguely cyberpunk is Cyber City Oedo 808 -- and that counts *only* because the main characters are prisoners. Basically, if it's not socialist, it's not cyberpunk -- in the same way that if it's not socialist it's not punk rock. Masamune Shirow makes a lot of stuff that looks cyberpunk but is really leaning slightly toward fascist (in the same way that superhero comics are, essentially, fascistic -- a small group of superempowered individuals are able to do what they want to the rest of the world because their aims are pure and thus they should be allowed to make decisions for everybody).

* The Cowboy Bebop movie should never have been made. Ever. It degraded the show retroactively.

* A Certain Scientific Railgun is essentially a really long metaphorical examination of racial and social injustice. A Certain Magical Index, on the other hand, is a really long metaphorical examination of the emergence of chaos magic out of the Illuminates of Thanateros and its interaction with mainline thelema, the traditionalist branch of the western occult tradition, and the 70s manchester punk scene. Even if these interpretations aren't intended by the creators, they are the best interpretations and I stand by them, because they make the shows a lot more meaningful, up until the movie where there's an occult battle slash sing-along / dance-off on a space elevator and everything goes to hell.

* Rah Xephon is about making an anime. Probably, it's about making Evangelion. (I actually wrote an essay about this interpretation, if you're in the mood for long-winded wank.)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:42 am

View Original PostChainsaw Owl wrote:Paranoia Agent is the worst anime ever made
You've clearly not watched enough anime.

View Original PostEnki v.2 wrote:* The Cowboy Bebop movie should never have been made. Ever. It degraded the show retroactively.
Well, seeing it as part of an anime season at the local arthouse cinema did disincline me to go for the series.

Related -- "Tank" is just a weak pastiche of every 1970s noirish action series theme.
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Postby Ray » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:27 am

People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:54 am

We already knew this, this is also why there are no female super saiyans he got lazy again.
In fact a lot of shonen authors have this problems, kishimoto stopped drawing naruto with goggles because they were harder to draw, one pieces character designs got simpler and more rushed because oda got lazy, it just goes on and on.
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Postby Ray » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:36 pm

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:one pieces character designs got simpler and more rushed because oda got lazy, it just goes on and on.


Lazier, AND Hornier. Because he got married while working on the series, and was horny for his wife the whole time. Which is why Nami went from this:
SPOILER: Show

Image

To this:

SPOILER: Show
Image


Also, in defense of Toriyama. I think the reason he didn't have female Saiyans was for another reason. As dragonball got more mainstream, he decided to tone down some of the more perverted and fanservicey parts of it that were in the original series.

There is a significant double standard when it comes to damage done to male clothing vs damage done to female clothing in Shonen Manga. Goku tends to have his shirt blown or ripped off in his battles with Frieza and the like. If Pan or Bra had their clothes blown off by an energy beam in a fight with Frieza. . . well it's a double standard for a reason.
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Postby Sicarius VI » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:04 pm

^Lol, so your saying Oda wants his wife to grow her hair out?

Also i wouldn't say it got lazier completely, because in a few moments in the anime and manga there are scenes with a lot of detail.


Actual mini-spoiler for anyone who still might be into One Piece, you have been warned!  SPOILER: Show
Image


I doubt however that Oda has a big influence on the skimping used in the anime, as it's likely a way for the companies involved to cut their cost when producing so many episodes.
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Postby Defectron » Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:02 pm

I think as of recent times Akira Toriyama is sort of turning into the anime equivelent of Micheal Bay. By that I mean he seems to not really care that much about his product like Bay doesnt care about transformers. In that he just seems to put stuff together which much of the time doesn't really make a whole lot of sense but people will still buy it because it's DB, even with the hated GT this was true, I mean it lasted a fairly long time and it's still liscensed by Funimation so even there people are buying it meaning he doesn't really have to try anymore to sell db related things, and imo he really isn't.
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Postby r1cepurin » Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:01 pm

Okay real opinion this time: I just think that freaking, Studio Ghibbles, is so overrated, like Ihave no idea. Totoro was a really great movie visually, but Ithink the story is just.....really simplistic and all. I'm gonna get my head smashed in for saying that, but someone like me needs something with slice of life and conflict balancing out each other, and I think slice of life outweighs totoro too much

I also think it's overrated in the sense that people think of them when they think of high quality, unadulterated anime. You know what's real unadulterated? Osamu Tezuka and the lot that came from him. Let me tell you, The Cat Returns was good because when I was 19 I played that part where Haru turns into a cat person over and over, because it makes me excited. That's good and all, but Tezuka made an entire movie about a cat person, called Bagi, the Monster of Mighty Nature. If someone made a dog transformation movie that'd make me super happy. Tezuka knew what people wanted. Also just, I just think he was more open to what could be called art and what didn't. Yeah, Miyazaki is a grumpy old git who's lived too long he's seen some shit, but I also don't think he's too terribly open about what's out there. I feel like he's become the John Kricfalusi of anime at this point. Yeah animation wise the Ghibbsy-joo has it on point, but I think Tezuka knew what to do with his storytelling and what kinds of stories people wanted to get into.

This came to me when an irl friend of mine, big Totoro fanatic, won't shut up about Miyazaki. Oh my god. I love her to bits, but she got a tattoo about the man's work, and that type of worship is so weird to me. That's an opinion on its own, that sorta worship being put into play. I don't get it. If you love something just continue to love it. Tattoos are like....it's weird gettign a tattoo on a thing that you didn't make up yourself. I even asked her why and she just said "because these are the movies my grandkids will be watching". uuhhh cool? Yeah, cool, I mean, I don't want kids but that's not why I'd get a tattoo of a thing. It's gotten to the point where he's so overblown there's nothing really unique about his stuff to me. He's a household name at this point, it's insane.

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:10 am

View Original Postr1cepurin wrote:Also just, I just think he was more open to what could be called art and what didn't. Yeah, Miyazaki is a grumpy old git who's lived too long he's seen some shit, but I also don't think he's too terribly open about what's out there.

I don't know much about Miyazaki the man, so I have to ask, what has he said that makes you say this?
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Postby A.T. Fish » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:22 am

View Original Postr1cepurin wrote:Tezuka made an entire movie about a cat person, called Bagi, the Monster of Mighty Nature. If someone made a dog transformation movie that'd make me super happy. Tezuka knew what people wanted.


So, people wanted animal transformation movies?

For canine transformation see Wolf People Children (I messed up).
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Postby robersora » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:24 am

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:For canine transformation see Wolf People.


I'd go for Wolf's Rain. It might be flawed, but the heart that beats inside this show is one of a kind.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:30 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:I'd go for Wolf's Rain. It might be flawed, but the heart that beats inside this show is one of a kind.


I didn't watch this one.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:51 am

R1ce, let the whimsy into your heart. Ghibli's disney-esque flavor has it's place now and then.

And yes, Wolf's Rain was decent. Not great, but decent.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:19 am

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:So, people wanted animal transformation movies?

As has been said, Wolf's Rain is decent, and I am less worried by its flaws than some people.

Another possibility in this category, more humour-based, is Uchouten Kazoku (The Eccentric Family), which I recommend very highly.
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Postby robersora » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:30 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Another possibility in this category, more humour-based, is Uchouten Kazoku (The Eccentric Family), which I recommend very highly.


YES

Controversial:
Kyoukai no Kanata is the best show Kyo-ani has ever produced and I'm very much looking forward to the movie.
Kara no Kyoukai might create the densest of atmospheres, but it looks ugly (shaders & terrible style for character designs) and will thus age horribly.
Akiyuki Shinbos style was a gift for anime as a whole.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:42 am

Hibike euphonium is a prime example of everything wrong with Kyo-ani and also a prime example of everything wrong with yuri bait.

Shimoneta is one of the best goddamn examples of how to implement fanservice into your anime ever.
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Postby r1cepurin » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:58 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:I don't know much about Miyazaki the man, so I have to ask, what has he said that makes you say this?


Like

the whole statement about not liking the modern anime industry because the big sleazy otaku types and all. That's such a narrow statement, especially because there are so many great producers and directors out there who are so passionate about the craft of anime in this century. I mean, there's also how he categorizes otakus (for example, his statement on hating the "gun otaku")
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