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Postby Bagheera » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:54 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Words shift and change; it is in the interest of language to resist unnecessary change to a reasonable extent, but some battles are not won (e.g. aggravate). As it happens, the use of jive in this sense is now accepted as current by the OED, but not yet by Merriam-Webster. I, like Bagheera, will not encourage such usage - but I won't make an issue of it in this case either.


Are you looking at the dead tree version, then? The one I found online does not include a definition that's synonymous with "jibe" (though ironically the alternate spelling of the latter, "gibe", does have an alternate definition that overlaps with the trash talk definition of "jive"! :lol: ).
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Postby pwhodges » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:57 pm

I mainly use the iPhone/iPad versions of the big dictionaries (e.g., Smaller Oxford); they update occasionally, of course. When I can be bothered, I sometimes check the smaller versions as well, which update more frequently. I also have Chambers to hand (which is in many ways my favourite dictionary).

See the reference here.

This particular meaning is given in the "Shorter Oxford Dictionary", but not in the "Oxford Dictionary of English" (which sits between the Shorter and the Concise) - I think the online one that you linked is based on the ODE.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:16 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I do! And both dictionaries list both pronunciations in my copies.

Interesting. Must have changed since i last checked.
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Postby robersora » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:57 pm

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:OED > Merriam-Webster anyway. Webster says "flaccid" is pronounced "flassid" instead of "flaksid". Who even says it like that?


I have never heard the word flaccid to be pronounced "flaksid" before.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:46 am


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Postby TehDonutKing » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:51 am

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:Relevant.

that fucker said flassid.
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Postby Ari » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:32 pm

I fucking hate the tsundere archetype in anime. It always ends up unraveling in a way that disgusts me
Prime example: Kyou from Fruits Basket.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:25 am

^ You probably should avoid Plastic Memories then. Maybe Grisaia too, if even "fake" ones don't appeal.

Recently, I saw Anime de Wakaru Shinryounaika argue that the popularity of the archytype is partly due to mass feelings of inadequacy on the part of the viewers watching it. Take that as you will.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I'm not "leveraging" for anything here,

Well, the entire discussion here was leverage quite frankly.

It's not nonstandard,

"Nonstandard" refers to a usage that has clear currency, but isn't accepted as a standard definition. It would *not* be nonstandard, if I had invented a new usage on the fly, or invoked one that was greatly esoteric. A usage other readers would find hard to follow.
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Postby pwhodges » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:43 am

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:^ You probably should avoid Plastic Memories then.

Which would be a shame, though. Admittedly the latest episode was simply pure WAFF, but I am quietly confident that it was the setup for a satisfying end-game.

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote:"Nonstandard" refers to a usage that has clear currency, but isn't accepted as a standard definition. It would *not* be nonstandard, if I had invented a new usage on the fly, or invoked one that was greatly esoteric. A usage other readers would find hard to follow.

That seems to me a nonstandard usage of "nonstandard"! By definition a new coinage has not yet become standard, and is thus not standard; I am not conscious of any difference in usage between "not standard" and "nonstandard" (except that my spellchecker is intrusively underlining the second!).
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Postby Alaska Slim » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:03 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:That seems to me a nonstandard usage of "nonstandard"!

Probably the case with my impromptu definition. I admit that I may be confusing terms; given that English comp. was not a strong suit of mine, even as I was learning it.

But, I'll mention that the very author of your source, Maeve Maddox, herself refers to using "Jive" as I did as "nonstandard":

" The mishearing of words has led to many mistaken forms becoming standard. Speakers misinterpret a word or phrase and eventually the mistake becomes part of the language. Our words “apron” and “umpire,” for example, entered the language as “napron” and “numpire”; English speakers heard “a napron” as “an apron” and “a numpire” as “an umpire” and so the words lost their initial “n.” It may be that “jive” with the meaning of “to be in accord with” will eventually be accepted. For now, it’s nonstandard. As such, there are contexts in which it is avoided by careful speakers."

I'll leave it up to your own determination as to whether or not she is being precise here.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:46 am

In any event, why not go with established definitions for the terms at hand?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:54 am

The definition of "nonstandard" or "non-standard" English includes slang. I'm not finding any "established" definition of the term that somehow differentiates the two.
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Postby GAP » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:31 am

While I enjoy most Gainax anime, I really wish that they didn't coming of age stories in their original anime. Gainax and Studio trigger really love their Bildungsroman stories in their orginal anime.
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Postby Enki v.2 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:47 pm

- Battle Tendency is the best arc in JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, and Stardust Crusaders was made watchable only because of Joseph Joestar's involvement
- Studio Ghibli has never made anything worth watching
- None of the GitS anime -- not the movies nor the show -- hold a candle to the manga. The first season of SAC is the best of the bunch, because Kusanagi was given back some of the characterization that Oshii took away, but hugely interesting ideas that were explored well in the manga (like the effects of transhumanism on gender identity and sexuality) are completely ignored in SAC and replaced with boring and shallowly neophobic ideas in Oshii's films
- Nisemonogatari is the best of the monogatari shows, in part because it sets itself in contradiction to the kind of adolescent obsession with authenticity that's an unquestioned obsession of most similar media (and thus gets a bit of complexity and frission for free). Most of what was good in Nisemonogatari was thrown away in Monogatari Second Season, which was too long and added still more characters to an already top-heavy cast, while simultaneously devaluing the existing characterizations of the ones we already had.
- FMA is fun to marathon but in retrospect is clearly preachy overwrought mush. It shares this with other action-packed but ultimately bad shows.
- Lain is good in part because it cleverly turned all potential plotholes into sources of narrative complexity. It avoids being merely vague and 'arty' by providing just enough structure that the main plot is clear; as a result, the assumption upon encountering a plothole is that it is a plot-relevant detail that enriches the watching experience. This is not a flaw; this is brilliance.
- NGE and TTGL are, basically, the same show in the opposite direction. To like NGE but not TTGL (for reasons other than, say, the crappy art or rampant sexism in TTGL) is to indicate an affection for the grimdark for its own sake. TTGL asks: what if Gendo tried to make Shinji a happy and functional human being?
- Eva 1.0 is better than Eva (TV) 1-6, in almost every way
- They should have never made a second season of Durarara. The first season was perfect and now it's all screwed up, and even though I like some of what they've done and some of the new characters, I feel like they also really damaged a lot of the existing characters in terms of characterization and motivation by retconning too much. Furthermore, I think that the show was just on the border of being too complex to handle already, and now it's going to be completely impossible to keep up with.
- It's a good thing that the Negima anime failed (both of them), because have you seen the manga? After volume 20 it becomes Bleach.
- Utena is the only show longer than 26 episodes that is really worth watching to the end, and even so, twenty episodes could have been cut out and it would have made the result better rather than worse. Adolescence of Utena did what Utena tried to do in 90 minutes and was more successful because it was harder for the audience to intentionally miss the point. Penguindrum deserves all sorts of prizes, because it attempts to do an Utena-like show in 26 episodes, succeeds, and manages to balance the dark and the light well, while making us all have an incredible emotional attachment (as adults) to a show whose moral is basically "pure love will save the world", and whose main characters are all part of a death cult basically.
- The most interesting characters in Evangelion are the SEELE members, and I wish Gainax had made a show about them.
- Rosario+Vampire is an excellent show, not despite being pure fanservice but because of it. Whenever it genuinely tries to be serious it fails to entertain, and whenever it genuinely tries to be silly it also fails to entertain, but because most of it is a half-hearted and failed attempt at being semi-serious, it succeeds wonderfully.

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Postby the_seventh_child » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Code Geass R2 is the best trainwreck ever and I'd pick it anyday over (the arguably much better storytelling) 1st season- and heck, even most other anime out there.
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Postby pwhodges » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:48 pm

View Original PostEnki v.2 wrote:... Monogatari Second Season, which was too long and added still more characters to an already top-heavy cast, while simultaneously devaluing the existing characterizations of the ones we already had.

Blame the novels it's adapted from.

Utena is the only show longer than 26 episodes that is really worth watching to the end,

Monster; Beast Player Erin. It took me a long time to steel myself up to watch Monster, but I was gripped from end to end.

Penguindrum deserves all sorts of prizes, because it attempts to do an Utena-like show in 26 episodes, succeeds, and manages to balance the dark and the light well,

I agree - Mawaru Penguindrum is my favourite of Ikuhara's shows.
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"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Postby Defectron » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:37 pm

View Original PostEnki v.2 wrote:
- Nisemonogatari is the best of the monogatari shows, in part because it sets itself in contradiction to the kind of adolescent obsession with authenticity that's an unquestioned obsession of most similar media (and thus gets a bit of complexity and frission for free). Most of what was good in
- Lain is good in part because it cleverly turned all potential plotholes into sources of narrative complexity. It avoids being merely vague and 'arty' by providing just enough structure that the main plot is clear; as a result, the assumption upon encountering a plothole is that it is a plot-relevant detail that enriches the watching experience. This is not a flaw; this is brilliance.
- They should have never made a second season of Durarara. The first season was perfect and now it's all screwed up, and even though I like some of what they've done and some of the new characters, I feel like they also really damaged a lot of the existing characters in terms of characterization and motivation by retconning too much. Furthermore, I think that the show was just on the border of being too complex to handle already, and now it's going to be completely impossible to keep up with.
- Utena is the only show longer than 26 episodes that is really worth watching to the end, and even so, twenty episodes could have been cut out and it would have made the result better rather than worse. Adolescence of Utena did what Utena tried to do in 90 minutes and was more successful because it was harder for the audience to intentionally miss the point. Penguindrum deserves all sorts of prizes, because it attempts to do an Utena-like show in 26 episodes, succeeds, and manages to balance the dark and the light well, while making us all have an incredible emotional attachment (as adults) to a show whose moral is basically "pure love will save the world", and whose main characters are all part of a death cult basically.


I liked the second season of Durarara a lot better then the first one actually for several reasons. One is the first season focused too much on the three main characters who I really didn't like. They kinda took a back seat to the more interesting characters in the show during the second season. Also I didn't care much for the contrived plot twists which hit you over the head a lot more then anything that happened in the later Durarara seasons, imo X2 is a big improvement over the old durarara.

My favorite Monogatari season was the one where Koyomi and Shinobu went back in time into that parralell universe.I forget which monogatari that was though, there's so many of them.

I agree with you about Adolesence and Lain though.
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Postby the_seventh_child » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:38 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:
Monster; Beast Player Erin. It took me a long time to steel myself up to watch Monster, but I was gripped from end to end.


Monster truly is the epitome of perfect (literally, not one single flaw I can think) storytelling.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:01 pm

View Original PostEnki v.2 wrote:- Battle Tendency is the best arc in JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, and Stardust Crusaders was made watchable only because of Joseph Joestar's involvement
Yes -- but let's revisit this if Steel Ball Run gets adapted.

- Studio Ghibli has never made anything worth watching
Them's fightin' words!

- None of the GitS anime -- not the movies nor the show -- hold a candle to the manga.
I felt this to be one of the few times the anime was better than the manga it adapted. The original manga was a disappointing mess compared with Appleseed; Human-Error Processor felt like a warmed-over Appleseed side story and Man-Machine Interface suffered from being post-Kobe earthquake. No arguments about Oshii gonna Oshii, though.

- Utena is the only show longer than 26 episodes that is really worth watching to the end
Travelling hopefully can be better than arriving (I'm looking at you, Z Gundam). And episodic/short-arc shows measure on a different scale (I'm thinking things as diverse as Mushishi and Zettai Karen Children here).
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Postby ::KL7:: » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:59 pm

Princess Mononoke is probably the most boring ghibli film I've seen, runner up goes to Tales from EarthSea.

I enjoyed Fate/zero more than stay night.

Gargantia deserved a second season. :(

Watched 1OVA of Utena film and have no interest in watching anything else Utena related ever again.

Sword Art Online is Awesome.

KanColle wasnt bad, it just wasnt that great.poi

FMA has no appeal to me whatsoever.

Still watching One Piece, still loving it. :thumbsup:
Last edited by ::KL7:: on Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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