Give me LAS or give me death!

Weil I took it very serious 10 years ago, now not so much anymore. Whatever floats your boat

I guess I take it semi-seriously. My upper lip curls when I hear people argue for Kaworu or Rei being Shinji's prime romantic interest. When people call Shinji a homosexual (as in no interest in women whatsoever), that's when I know their opinion on the show is worthless.

It's not like I spend nights thinking about the show's romance or anything like that

The shipping is meh. It's really just a sideplot. Without it the story would stay pretty much the same. Most of the time it's only hinted at and never really fully explored.

EvangelionGodMode wrote:The shipping is meh. It's really just a sideplot. Without it the story would stay pretty much the same. Most of the time it's only hinted at and never really fully explored.

I'd argue that it's pretty essential to End of Evangelion

Oh? please elaborate

Compiling_Autumn wrote:I'd argue that it's pretty essential to End of Evangelion

There were a few seconds in the hell-train sequence that came out of nowhere, and that was all (where "out of nowhere" = "relied exclusively on extra shiptastic material retrospectively jammed into the DC episodes").

I don't count relationships that are a fundamental part of the story (such as those of Shinji with Rei and Asuka) as shipping; for me that term is by definition describing an inessential or even wildly contradictory add-on.

Mr. Tines wrote:There were a few seconds in the hell-train sequence that came out of nowhere, and that was all (where "out of nowhere" = "relied exclusively on extra shiptastic material retrospectively jammed into the DC episodes").

The DC eps came first (or rather, Death did), so you can't really call EoE "out of nowhere".

Mr. Tines wrote:There were a few seconds in the hell-train sequence that came out of nowhere, and that was all (where "out of nowhere" = "relied exclusively on extra shiptastic material retrospectively jammed into the DC episodes").

Episode 9 had a lot of Shinji x Asuka, and never once had an extended version in the “DC” cuts. They didn’t even have to animate/re-animate any of that episode for its inclusion in Death. So, even disregarding the “DC Edits,” that relationship is even supported by the non-extended canon of the show and therefore doesn’t come out of nowhere in EoE.

You can still not like EoE if you want. It’s just illogical and factually inaccurate to use this alleged narrative inconsistency as a reason for your dislike. Shinji x Asuka was established very early on in Eva’s canon, even before the filmmakers decided to elaborate further upon it.

All that having been said, I like what pwhodges said about shipping.

pwhodges wrote:I don't count relationships that are a fundamental part of the story (such as those of Shinji with Rei and Asuka) as shipping; for me that term is by definition describing an inessential or even wildly contradictory add-on.

I agree with this, and the usage of official existing Eva canon in order to support ships kind of baffles me. I always assumed that shipping was more or less a fan-driven/created thing. In my mind (and I could be wrong about this), any romances or relationships that occur in the narrative itself isn’t so much shipping as it is part of the actual story-telling. Sure, fans can take an existing relationship in the narrative an expand upon that concept, turing that into a form of shipping as they are adding their own ideas of the relationship and how they want to see it unfold onto something that was already expressed by the story-tellers for entirely different reasons, but even that seems to be a “lighter” form of shipping compared to what we see elsewhere in fan reactions to media. A lot of shipping seems to be “OMG! Wouldn’t it be hot if Asuka and Mari/Misato and Ritsuko/ect. were dating?” with people responding “Yeah, I’d ship that.”

Basically, shipping either tends to be fans excluding the context and just focusing on a pre-existing relationship, or just simply creating a relationship out of the blue simply because these two characters look cute together. Either way, it’s all fan conjecture, not necessarily based nor does it solely need to hinge on the details of the existing narrative body of work.

pwhodges wrote:I don't count relationships that are a fundamental part of the story (such as those of Shinji with Rei and Asuka) as shipping; for me that term is by definition describing an inessential or even wildly contradictory add-on.

This, pretty much. Shinji/Asuka, Misato/Kaji and Ritsuko/Gendo are the only canon ships that ever go anywhere. True, all of these relationships end in tears for those involved, but they're still canon. All the rest is essentially fan speculation and wish fulfillment.

In terms of how seriously I take shipping, I'd like it if even one of the main Eva canons would explore the Shinji/Rei romance through Instrumentality and beyond, without it being reset by Rei's death half-way through. Just once would be fine. 2.22 is the closest we'll ever get, it seems.

Incidentally, I don't count End of Evangelion in this regard, since the Rei we see here has fully accepted her true identity and is more Lilith than Rei, in my opinion.

Seoul Gamer wrote:Shinji/Asuka, Misato/Kaji and Ritsuko/Gendo are the only canon ships that ever go anywhere. True, all of these relationships end in tears for those involved,

I'd say that EOE gives SxA a small chance of becoming possible with the final scene and MxK could also theoretically happen if both choose to return from the sea

Arcadia's legacy wrote:I'd say that EOE gives SxA a small chance of becoming possible with the final scene and MxK could also theoretically happen if both choose to return from the sea

This is true, but we never get to see that outcome. It's left to the viewer's imagination, which is why for me it technically isn't canon since it would have to happen outside the limits of the narrative.

LAS 4 life, punks.



Seriously, though, I don't care about the pairing (AxS, RxS, KxS...or AxK, AxR, RxK, Mxeverybody or nothing...), so long as the story is good. The characters are, to a certain extent, flexible tools in the hands of the right author. If the pairing is natural and doesn't feel forced or out of nowhere, I'll like it.

Arcadia's legacy wrote:How seriously do you take shipping?

Arcadia's legacy wrote:Do you consider it to be serious business or trivial?

I was (or still are?) a LAS for the major time of the show and thought it would horrible if they end up together. But as soon as i saw everything else about LRS i completly dropped everything with shipping. 2.22 was maybe the only case of LRS (legit) in this entire franchise. And 3.33 was a KxS coming-of-age "im homosexual dad" story. So how serious do i take it? Not serious anymore because after lurking in the archives of this board and talking to Bags i finally understood NGE/EoE (that Shinji didn't kill Asuka on purpose) and so on. LRS is wishful thinking at best and everything yaoi or yuri based is not relevant. Only Misato (& Kaji) is left and we don't know what is up with Kaji in 3.33. Maya has a crush on Ritsuko - and everything else is evidental.
LAS feels natural if you didn't watched many (after this show) romance-plots in anime.
Also the Freudan ideas of the show overshadow certain topics and character development early in the second half. The problem is - people take it seriously because it is a show of Defeatism, Despair and Destruction. And this naturally for certain people that this art appeals to us (like Freud and Marx told us). That is why the show isn't liked by many people. Because this isn't a tale about heroism from the deepest holes of despair - but destruction. Yeah i acknowledge the sudden turn from 2.22.

This is why i write (currently my own fic) and try to reconstruct Evangelion with the help of NTE. While NGE & NTE went the route of destruction again - i try to take it the other with Heroism. Sounds old but it is gold. And out of this destruction and despair there is only one thing left.
The interaction between humans - and the smallest unit is the interaction between two individuals and not the individual itself. This objective existencialism is what fuels people to ship the shit out of this show. Because the world is over and nothing is left other than other individuals. You either hate or like the show from the bottom of the heart - and then the majority of the community are shippers. Not out of fandom-crazyness but because out of missing conclusions. Other ships like Naruhina or Narusaku are a other kind of thing.

I feel as though shipping isn't entirely a bad thing. The thing about shipping that bothers me is when someone ships and insist they are absolutely right, when in turn they are just theorizing.

Mr. Tines wrote:Shipping (SxA) was a lot more serious in the early days of the site, enough that my "but there's no there, there" stance got me labelled as a notorious anti-shipper.

Today, things have mellowed a lot.

It's hard to imagine literally any other forum member than myself as an anti-shipper. The mellowing, I think, has a lot to do with fans looking deeper into the series as time goes on, appreciating the story and deconstructive aspects of Evangelion and seeing them as the true centerpiece of the work, as opposed to many of its more conventional contemporaries, where character romance is usually at least a strong plot point.

pwhodges wrote:I don't count relationships that are a fundamental part of the story (such as those of Shinji with Rei and Asuka) as shipping; for me that term is by definition describing an inessential or even wildly contradictory add-on.

The possibility (and subsequent sinking of possibility) ultimately serves to flesh out more of the characters' personalities, traits that aren't gleaned from Angel attacks and Eva sorties alone; from my point of view, they also add to the contrast between the three pilots (more so Rei and Asuka, although it also highlights Shinji's differences compared to both of them) and establishing how their qualities appeal to - or conflict with - said Shinji in offering him a choice, or perhaps more properly, the pretense of such.

I have come to see the importance of such potential personal connections as being almost crucial to garnering a more complete understanding of NGE's cast and, by extension, NGE as a whole. That said, as far as straight-up shipping is concerned, it has little place in the bulk of Evangelion itself, detracting from it's finer, more profound plot elements in favor of idealized fantasy.

In other words, I still strongly identify as anti-ship, but not anti-character/plot-developing-romance-potential per se (God that's a lot of hyphens), if only because the difference between the two is truly more stark than the average viewer may realize, at least at first.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Episode 9 had a lot of Shinji x Asuka, and never once had an extended version in the “DC” cuts.

There was flashback material injected into episode 9 during the extended mind-rape sequence, turning it from being simply getting the measure of each other, and Asuka's presuppositions of what a male pilot would be like crashing on the rocks of Shinji's ineptitude, to Shinji acquiring harem MC status.

You can still not like EoE if you want. It’s just illogical and factually inaccurate to use this alleged narrative inconsistency as a reason for your dislike.

I was asserting that shipping was not essential to EoE, contrary to Compiling_Autumn's suggestion. Remove one line from one scene, and it pretty much all goes away.

Shinji x Asuka was established very early on in Eva’s canon

The first run-through went and up-ended all the old cliches inherent in the harem set-up that it started up with, including concluding with a "nobody wins the Shinji" ending.

Mr. Tines wrote:(...) got me labelled as a notorious anti-shipper. (...)
(...) concluding with a "nobody wins the Shinji" ending (...)

Yup, Tines you really are a anti-shipper.
But what i never understood was - why you hate it this much (aside from the normal-tier shipping).
I read some statements of yours on how you hate EoE!Shinji and so on. But i never understood the stance. And no this is not really a question.

Everyone takes shipping seriously and if they say they don't, they're lying- or at least, they subconsciously do.

Oh? do you have evidence to support your claim?