Rei I - Kaworu connection?

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Postby oOoOoOo » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:29 pm

Ornette wrote:It probably isn't meant as anything to be taken literally, like Kaworu was gathering Rei's soul, or that Kaworu was actually floating above Rei, or that Kaworu had anything to do with Naoko.
I'm inclined to agree with this, especially after a good point made by AuraTwilight. It probably is just to make the connection between the two characters. Death is sort of abstract, or not that linear or literal, I'd say. Of course, for those of us who like to over-analyse everything to death (i.e. us), this can be quite frustrating at times. ^^;

Considering the higher nature of Lilith and Adam, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some deeper unseen connection between them, if we wanted to assume that scene with Kaworu reflected in Rei's eyes was literal. But whether it is literal or not, it probably does not change the plot of the character development.

All this soul math, though, wow. o_O
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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:02 pm

If the soul has been re-united how could there be three in Instrumentality? The first two must have been collected by Rei 3 before the reunion took place.


Much, much more simply, even though the soul is united all three Reis are represented because they each had an individual ego and Rei is manifesting all herselves based on memory. Her and her identity issues and whatnot. It's not any more of a soul split as when we see Shinji's various issues quasi-personified.

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Postby NemZ » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:19 pm

Zaque wrote:They don't.


Say what?

Misato:
So, this is the source of the dummy plugs?

RITSUKO:
I will show you the truth.

Shinji:
Rei Ayanami?

Misato:
You're not saying the Evas' dummy plugs are...

RITSUKO:
That's right, the part that becomes the core of the dummy system,
and this is the manufacturing plant for it.

Misato:
This is?!

RITSUKO (OFF):
These are just dummies.
And nothing more than parts for Rei.


Honestly, how can anyone read/hear this dialog and not get out of it that there is some form of Rei-kibble jammed into the dummy system? It very clearly requires something physical, not just a brain scan.

As far as the numbering issue on the remote goes there are any number of ways around it. Maybe Nerv started counting at Rei #0, as they did with the evas. Maybe they grabbed one at random and it happened to be a higher numbered Rei unit? Maybe they recommissioned the clone they pulled out of the tank and adjusted the numbering accordingly. Maybe Ritsuko's remote also destroyed the dummy plug that had been used earlier, whether they put it back in the tank or not.
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Postby LiLi » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:01 pm

NemZ wrote:As far as the numbering issue on the remote goes there are any number of ways around it. Maybe Nerv started counting at Rei #0, as they did with the evas.


I thought so. Or maybe it's a simple animation error.
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Postby thewayneiac » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:11 pm

They showed us that controller for a reason, and the reason was obviously not to tell us that they made the Dummy Plugs starting with Rei 57. They were telling us that three and only three Reis were missing from the tank.

And remember this:

Episode 17 wrote:RITSUKO:
This is the dummy plug prototype.
Rei's personal data has been loaded into it,
but it's not really possible to digitize a human mind and soul.
Ultimately, it's a fake, an imitation.
Just a machine that emulates a pilot's thinking process.

IKARI:
It'll transmit a signal pattern to the Eva.
As long as the Eva believes there's a pilot and synchronizes, that's enough.
Load the data into Unit 01 and Unit 02.


The Dummy Plugs broadcast Rei's thought patterns and nothing more. Once the Eva synchs with the fake, it's the Dummy System that does the actual piloting. The Dummy System is seperate from the Dummy Plugs, and can operate when a Dummy Plug is not present. As it does in Episode 18 when it takes over from Shinji who is in a regular Entry Plug, not a Dummy Plug.

Whatever it is that makes the Reis the core of the Dummy System, it's not that there are Rei's in the Dummy Plugs.

Nemz wrote:Maybe Nerv started counting at Rei #0, as they did with the evas.


Except that we know that the first Rei is Rei 1. The scripts refer to the three Reis an Reis 1-3, not 0-2.
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Postby LiLi » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:18 pm

thewayneiac wrote:They showed us that controller for a reason, and the reason was obviously not to tell us that they made the Dummy Plugs starting with Rei 57.


Rei 57 needs to become her own character!

Episode 17 wrote:RITSUKO:
This is the dummy plug prototype.
Rei's personal data has been loaded into it,
but it's not really possible to digitize a human mind and soul.
Ultimately, it's a fake, an imitation.
Just a machine that emulates a pilot's thinking process.

IKARI:
It'll transmit a signal pattern to the Eva.
As long as the Eva believes there's a pilot and synchronizes, that's enough.
Load the data into Unit 01 and Unit 02.


So that's where I got that ... thanks, in any case it's nice to know I wasn't just imagining things...
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What exactly is the meaning of these images in Rei's eyes?

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Postby nostalgic_beer » Wed May 27, 2015 11:55 pm

This is from Death & Rebirth, beware of some spoilers if you haven't watched it.

When Naoko Akagi is killing Rei I, you can see these images (Kaworu) in Rei's eyes and I still can't find a meaning for them, at least in that moment of the series. Is it the same idea of Rei showing itself in many places at once?

SPOILER: Show
Image

Image

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Postby robersora » Thu May 28, 2015 3:46 am

^
That's an interesting one. Are you sure, it's not just a fancy way of cutting to the next scene? What happens in the scene after the killing of Rei I?
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Postby pwhodges » Thu May 28, 2015 3:54 am

I can't remember - is that image of Kaworu used anywhere else, other than the opening titles?
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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu May 28, 2015 6:41 am

That image is seen momentarily in Episode 24 when Misato talks about Kaworu - I don't remember if it was the original aired version or the director's cut version.
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Postby Bagheera » Thu May 28, 2015 8:10 am

Perhaps it is Lilith being witnessed by the only other Seed of Life on Earth, just as she witnesses the deaths of all of her Lilin. But who knows?
Last edited by Bagheera on Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nostalgic_beer » Thu May 28, 2015 7:18 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Perhaps it is Lilith being witnessed by the only other Seed of Life on Earth, just as she witnesses the deaths of all of the her Lilin. But who knows?


Rei I is a small child, but this picture shows a 14yr Kaworu. But what really intrigued me was Kaworu's mirrored in Rei's eyes since it was Naoko killing her with her own hands.

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Postby robersora » Thu May 28, 2015 7:30 pm

It's also interesting that his face is upside down in relation to Rei's back-bend head. If he just appeared in her mind alone it would make more sense I guess he wouldn't appear as he was standing before Rei.
Once again, could anybody provide a time stamp? I'd like to check it out myself, but don't care to look though the whole movie.
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Postby nostalgic_beer » Fri May 29, 2015 7:42 pm

View Original Postrobersora wrote:Once again, could anybody provide a time stamp? I'd like to check it out myself, but don't care to look though the whole movie.


Death, near 0h40min. mark.

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Postby Lavinius » Fri May 29, 2015 7:46 pm

Because Kaworu is clone of Naoko.
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Postby thewayneiac » Sun May 31, 2015 6:22 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:Because Kaworu is clone of Naoko.


How I respond to that depends on whether you're joking or serious.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:28 pm

Some older discussion on this matter: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/1237/Rei-I-Kaworu-connection/

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Postby nostalgic_beer » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:34 pm

View Original PostOrnette wrote:Some older discussion on this matter: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/1237/Rei-I-Kaworu-connection/


Thank you. I think you can close this post as a duplicate.


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