How did Shinji even effectively reject instrumentality?

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How did Shinji even effectively reject instrumentality?

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Postby unitM » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:15 pm

No matter how many times I come back to the script, it just seems that Shinji was gifted awareness of his escapism condition, as opposed to outright saying "I don't want to live in a dream anymore."

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:29 pm

If you want to be technical he simply decided I am myself. If you're asking how he could even do that Rei pulled him out of the mass of souls to chat with him.
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Postby unitM » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:32 pm

But he didn't decide that; he became aware of it. Sure, after he rejects instrumentality, you can see that his depression is lifted. But like I said, moments prior to the rejection of instrumentality, it's not like Shinji actually says anything to the equivalent of "I'm better now and I don't want this." He's only made aware that there's more to life.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:34 pm

AEF's words is how I understood it in either situation, myself.

The live action sequence prior to him and Rei chatting always struck me as (sort of) Instrumentality proper with everyone's souls overlapping, while the "break up lines" sequence seemed to be the merging actually starting. (There are certain lines/visuals that made me think as much for either case, nothing I can recall off the top of my head though.)
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:54 am

Are we talking the series or EoE here? In EoE, he clearly gets privileged access to the controls through Rei, who let him start the process in the first place. By contrast, in EoTV, he spends most of the time trying to shut himself away in his own little box, and the transition is when he stops doing that.
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Re: How did Shinji even effectively reject instrumentality?

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Postby Logoguy » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:42 am

View Original PostunitM wrote:No matter how many times I come back to the script, it just seems that Shinji was gifted awareness of his escapism condition, as opposed to outright saying "I don't want to live in a dream anymore."


Shinji actually did verbally state that he wanted see everyone again. Regardless of whether he spoke, the Adam/Lilith hybrid manifested his desires, as he was seemingly in 'control' of it.

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Re: How did Shinji even effectively reject instrumentality?

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Postby unitM » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:54 pm

View Original PostLogoguy wrote:Shinji actually did verbally state that he wanted see everyone again. Regardless of whether he spoke, the Adam/Lilith hybrid manifested his desires, as he was seemingly in 'control' of it.
It's just a manifestation of his desire, yeah. It's interesting how Anno laid that out, instead of Shinji being more explicit about it.

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Postby Dream » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:52 pm

I think a lot of that falls down on the Jesus Bleibet Meune Freunde scene. I do not know if the "revelation" in that scene can be transmitted throught text or any means other than personal realization (if it can be i'm certainly not the person for it) but i am convinced that scene is not only pivotal to the thematic and narrative areas of the film but also culmination of Anno's psyche after all he went throught in his NGE days.
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Postby Bryan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:07 am

View Original PostunitM wrote:But he didn't decide that; he became aware of it. Sure, after he rejects instrumentality, you can see that his depression is lifted. But like I said, moments prior to the rejection of instrumentality, it's not like Shinji actually says anything to the equivalent of "I'm better now and I don't want this." He's only made aware that there's more to life.


I think that equivalent actually is there. It's "Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real.". This is his penultimate epiphany. It is said in a way that is so antithetical to what any poet would ever say that you'd almost overlook it and I think that's what makes it so much more perfect than any of those other cheesy lines you find in one of those "respected pieces of literature", this feels so much more honest and real.


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