What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I thoughts!

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:08 am

^I... don't see how that relates, care to elaborate? :headscratch:

For the record, what I'm saying is that this experience would leave no permanent "improvement" on the Human social relations. We'd eventually just regress back to where we were. Just like in A Canticle for Lebowitz, only with more priests and wandering Jews... AND NUKES! BD
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:25 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:so many gems from Tines at his cantankerous best.
And that was from a time before I could cite the Occupy movement and it's need to establish some explicit "No Raping" zones, to give some real world examples of quite how bad post-EoE with returnees would get real soon.
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Postby PanzerEVA » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:30 pm

So many possibilities. Yet so little is known. No-one can really know for sure unless a sequel of sorts is made (of course, you all knew that). Perhaps Hideki Anno left it off like.that for a reason. Perhaps he ddn't know how to continue it. Or if we take a slightly wilder approach to things, maybe once 4.0 goes live, we'll see a 'sequel' to EoE, short-movie, full-length or otherwise.

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Postby Monk Ed » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:46 pm

The last time this subject came up (in another topic, and relatively recently, buried in the Fanfic Recommendations thread I believe) I said something to the effect that making guesses about how a post-3I world would play out is fruitless, because there are so many unknowns, and what it really comes down to anyway is one's interpretation of the theme. As Chuckman has said elsewhere, in a work of fiction "things happen not because they make sense but because they mean something".

...But this topic is still an awesomely fun read.
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Postby PanzerEVA » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:22 pm

I recently re-watched the final scene from EoE (albeit in english). It was on my phone, so quality of the footage was affected, but I used my headphones to pick up everything.

From what I could tell, Asuka looked 'sad'. Even when she looks at the crying Shinji, she still looks pitiful.
Some say the 'How disgusting' is said very coldly. I have to disagree with that. Perhaps there is an element of coldness in there, but it sounds depressed to me.

I can't speak for the Japanese version, but going by the dub, Asuka seems to have forgiven Shinji for his wrongs and put aside hers, even though she says disgusting.

As an answer to the original question at the beginning of the thread: yes I believe Asuka and Shinji will find happiness.

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Postby peripateia » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:30 am

@Panzer Eva

Don't be offended by my reply-I pity your interpretation of 'One More Final'! I think it's dangerously delusional to say that it is in any sense a happy, straightforward or hopeful ending for the AS 'couple'. This is coming from someone who hoped that Asuka and Shinji could form some kind of reciprocal relationship since the beginning of their encounter in ep.8.

One thing I will say about LAS after 8 years of eva: I doubt Anno himself could decide whether they were going to be a couple. Not only are Shinji and Asuka confused, but I suspect even Anno felt a great deal of ambiguity about the status of their relationship, and that's part of eva's lasting impact on its fandom.

Also, while the meaning of Asuka's final line is left open to interpretation, I found its delivery to be quite clear. I think somewhere in the EoE script it explicitly states that she says it "in the coldest voice possible." I don't oppose LAS, but to me, a clear viewing of EoE is anathema to the coupling of these two damaged children as lovers. Dare to dream though!

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Postby Jurrasic » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:23 am

View Original Postperipateia wrote:@Panzer Eva

Don't be offended by my reply-I pity your interpretation of 'One More Final'! I think it's dangerously delusional to say that it is in any sense a happy, straightforward or hopeful ending for the AS 'couple'. This is coming from someone who hoped that Asuka and Shinji could form some kind of reciprocal relationship since the beginning of their encounter in ep.8.

One thing I will say about LAS after 8 years of eva: I doubt Anno himself could decide whether they were going to be a couple. Not only are Shinji and Asuka confused, but I suspect even Anno felt a great deal of ambiguity about the status of their relationship, and that's part of eva's lasting impact on its fandom.

Also, while the meaning of Asuka's final line is left open to interpretation, I found its delivery to be quite clear. I think somewhere in the EoE script it explicitly states that she says it "in the coldest voice possible." I don't oppose LAS, but to me, a clear viewing of EoE is anathema to the coupling of these two damaged children as lovers. Dare to dream though!


Damaged goods they both are, but also ruled by millions of years of evolutionary hormonal drives. They have a mutual attraction that neither of them are all that happy about, but really, they are the only game in town for each other.

Lovers they will be, parents most likely, but happy? Maybe sometimes. Not most times. They will be together as long as they can both stand it. Kinda like the majority of humanity.

A stanza from a Leonard Cohen song, "Waiting for the Miracle" comes to mind:

Ah baby, let's get married,
We've been alone too long
Let's be alone together
Let's see if we're that strong
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Postby peripateia » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:33 am

@Jurassic

Delicious reply! This is a rebuttal I can bite into. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you say:

1. Asuka and Shinji are instinctively attracted to one another by human nature
2. the two are alone and have nobody else
3. They embody the 'adult' relationship of necessity rather than romance

And therefore, Asuka and Shinji are meant to be with one another until their mutual disgust reaches a threshold.

I think that's plausible, but so practical and pessimistic a view that it refuses to concede the possibility of a mutual understanding between the two, either via mutual acceptance of incompatibility or an acknowledgement of one another's crippling faults. True romance or not at all, I say!

The key to One More Final, IMO, is ambiguity. No way to know at all; could go either way. We're playing Anno's game by discussing this further, dammit :tongue:

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:43 am

Those with arranged marriages often say that love can grow in due course in that situation. The same could apply here if you really need it to.
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Postby Stillborn » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:48 am

This concept was used as an ending of Throne of Bayonettes fanfic. They agreed that there is nothing between them really but have no one other to turn to, so in desperation they agreed for a purely physical, loveless relationship of necessity.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:05 am

Yet the ending suggest that they are starting to support and understand each other better, and that maybe things could improve with time, but it's just one of the possible interpretations, like EoE if you think about it.
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Postby Jurrasic » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:55 am

Man, I was a little bitter early in the morning eh? :lol:

Yeah, it's a practical and sad outcome that really is the 'human' answer to what their situation, in real life, could move towards.

However, It ignores one important factor: This is fiction, not reality. Their story by Anno's writing is over, the future can be whatever the hell another writer wants it to be.
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Postby Stillborn » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:00 am

This is fictional setting. But actions and mindsets are realistic and humanlike. So yeah. No love ever after.
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I thought this reply was pretty funny

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Postby Janoski » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:04 pm

Image

EoE sequel confirmed lel[/img]

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Postby Jäeger » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:00 am

Well, In my opinion the Adam & Eve imaginery of the last scene is pretty obvious. The hell, we're talking about a show that has been spitting biblical references to your face during 26 episodes and two movies, It's pointless to deny one of the most evident ever. But beware, I'm talking in a "first and alone couple on Earth" symbolism, not "lets fuck 'till we repopulate the planet"
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:22 am

As often as Eva spits out Biblical imagery as much as possible, it also distances itself from Biblical contexts as much as possible. The Adam and Eve imagery is arguably there, but the context certainly isn't. This means that that Shinji and Asuka don't NEED to (re)populate the planet; only that it looks like they could if they wanted to.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:37 am

Rei and Kaworu weren't exactly ambiguous when they noted what would happen later on. The only real question to be addressed is the timescale involved; whether or not it will happen is a settled matter.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:43 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Well, In my opinion the Adam & Eve imaginery of the last scene is pretty obvious.
Seeing the salubrious location where they ended up, I characterised it as the anti-Eden, myself -- two damned souls stuck in their perfected post-Resurrection bodies in the Wilderness at the End of the World.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:24 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Rei and Kaworu weren't exactly ambiguous when they noted what would happen later on. The only real question to be addressed is the timescale involved; whether or not it will happen is a settled matter.


Ehh... not entirely. They said people could, not that they would. And by the end they haven't, so it's an open question.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:39 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Seeing the salubrious location where they ended up, I characterised it as the anti-Eden, myself -- two damned souls stuck in their perfected post-Resurrection bodies in the Wilderness at the End of the World.

This is perhaps the best way to take in that scene. Two beings started it all, and two being are there at the end of it all.
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