Which Interpretation of the Ending works best for you?

This is a forum for casual discussion of Evangelion. Topics like "Asuka is hot!" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?" belong here.

Moderator: Board Staff

LordThaeon
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 128
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Location: USA
Gender: Male
Contact:

Which Interpretation of the Ending works best for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby LordThaeon » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:32 am

Do you think that the original series two-episode ending as the best one despite being crippled by Gainax's bad money-management issues (long story short, the budget ran out) and many unresolved plot points?

End of Evangelion despite it's gigantic mind-screw properties and oppressively hateful tone towards its characters and very possibly it's audience?

Or the Manga for being just as much of a mind-screw as EOE, but less...hateful (best word that I can come up with at the moment)?

Personally, I prefer the Manga though I'm uncertain as to whether or not how everything was reset into a new reality with all memories of the past erased is a good thing or a bad thing. (I guess that's for us to figure out)
FF Profile

"Please explain that again without insulting my intelligence."

SEELE
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 292
Joined: Apr 14, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SEELE » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:00 am

TV-ending: It was good, tho. Especially if you understand it. This was a good character development and a overall positive outcome. And it gave birth to famous and infamous fanfic throughout the last years. I liked it a lot - but i can see why people disliked it.

You could compare it as a love relationship between me and EoTV. Somewhat similiar to the hate relationship of Mr Tines and EoE-Shinji have.

EoE: Oh boy. At first i hated it. Just as much as i hated a ton of anime endings. I think some fanfic rescued me from totally disliking the show at all. Thanks 2nd try. And as soon as i watched the the Rebuild i started to like it. Because EoE gave closure to the anime. Even if it was somehow bittersweet.

Manga-ending and last issue: It is part of the universe but only works because Sadamoto draw it. Anno is the head behind Evangelion. So Sadamoto is a J-type - so he needed closure. And in my pov he didn't delievered as good as the anime did.

Rebuild-ending: As long as it turns out like EoE did im fine with it. I don't expect a manga-ending but everything below EoE isn't worth mentioning.

Which Interpretation of the Ending works best for you?
I think EoTV did his job. Anno was not pissed at the time - everyone was happy. It was an somewhat Ray of Hope Ending with a little bit of a Downer/Bittersweet ending.
"Shinji repeatedly rises to the occasion, overcomes his own doubts and fears and puts others ahead of himself to the point of self harm. The situation overwhelms him. Victory does not define a hero. Intent does. He breaks at the end, but after inhuman, overwhelming, borderline comedic suffering." - Chuckman talking about Shinji as a hero
Final Fantasy 7 gets a remake. I hope it doesn't goes the same way NTE did.
Plus I kinda want to be done with this franchise for a while and concentrate on other things in life. - Guy Nacks

Sicarius VI
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 1143
Joined: Aug 12, 2014
Location: United States
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sicarius VI » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:17 am

I think the EOE ending did it for me. It did it's job, closed up it's story line in the time given, and gave us closure to the characters, granted it is closure that one on their first viewing wouldn't find. Even if the ending was as bittersweet at least it was still the Shinji we went throughout 26 episodes which.

Manga ending is much happier compared to EOE and even the TV ending, but it just don't like the fact that it is a world reset, it's not the same Shinji we went through with the other 13 volumes. It has it pros tho, I do like how the MPEs survived to signify the battle that happen long before. Also how Asuka and Shinji slightly retained a sense of knowing each-other in a past life. The big thing that EOE doesn't do as well is go into Shinji past, mainly with Yui. I really like how throughout the manga Shinji is trying to remember the last thing Yui said to him, and he finally remembers it in 3rd Impact.

I consider when the Rebuild ending comes out to be a completely different ending, just mainly because of how different the world was made in 3.0, the Manga and Anime stay the same for the most part, and the Manga becomes an Alternate ending. When the rebuild ending comes out(whenever that is) it's not like "Oh yea that could've happen in NGE if this...." because 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 is so vastly different in setting and plot, not so much theme and message.
"I'm not going there to die, I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." - Spike Spiegel

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:03 pm

TV ending is the best if you take it as a Gendo Wins transhumanist upload scenario. If you see it as mere escapism or just an incomplete part of EoE then of course you won't be satisfied though, and that's your loss.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Mr. Tines
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 62
Posts: 20426
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Location: This sceptered isle.
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:07 pm

In essence, in the TV ending, I saw something that I'd not seen done since CS Lewis brought Narnia to a definitive close. EoE just pissed that away in the last few minutes. And the manga just didn't know how to end, so bottled it.
Reminder: Play nicely <<>> My vanity publishing:- NGE|blog|Photos|retro-blog|Fanfics||MAL
Avatar: Mahou Shoujo Rapture Asuka : "Slice them up with your magical karambit, chu!"

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 73
Posts: 10358
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:13 pm

They all provide some meaning. Knocking any one down because of the others is rather a waste of effort in my view.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Everybody finds love... in the end. (details); Past avatars.
Can't wait for 3.0+1.0? - try Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 22887
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Which Interpretation of the Ending works best for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:08 pm

View Original PostLordThaeon wrote:Do you think that the original series two-episode ending as the best one despite being crippled by Gainax's bad money-management issues (long story short, the budget ran out) and many unresolved plot points?


Check these out, regarding the TV ending:

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/359336/Yamaga-EoTV-planned-from-the-start-EoE-was-an-afterthought/#359336

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/392434/Okada-Evas-Ending-Was-Decided-at-the-Last-Moment/#392434
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

LordThaeon
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 128
Joined: Apr 20, 2012
Location: USA
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Which Interpretation of the Ending works best for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby LordThaeon » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:06 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Check these out, regarding the TV ending:

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/359336/Yamaga-EoTV-planned-from-the-start-EoE-was-an-afterthought/#359336

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/392434/Okada-Evas-Ending-Was-Decided-at-the-Last-Moment/#392434


So from what I gather, the ending's inherent issues weren't a result of budget problems. They were a result of a lack of overall vision for the ending and scheduling problems.

Somehow this makes the tv ending seem worst to me. I now have the vibe that Anno and his team couldn't solidify their vision on the show's ending until it came down to the wire. Then they wrote up what was essentially 3/4ths of a clipshow with new dialogue played over it and everyone just went with it just to be done with the series.

I don't want to down the tv ending because it does have good character development and a weirdly positive ending (Not sure if I can call it a happy ending or not considering the context of instrumentality and what it represents). But it's generally a basic rule to have some general idea about how you want to end the story that you start, right?

EOE was oppressive and bleak, but at least things were explained and major plot points weren't left hanging out to dry. Same with the manga ending to a lesser degree.
FF Profile

"Please explain that again without insulting my intelligence."

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:02 pm

The problem was running out of time, not money. 25 was sacrificed because they just didn't have enough time to properly animate what they had planned, but 26 was always meant to be abstract.

Calling it 'a clip show' is still a bit unfair though.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 8365
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:30 pm

^ Yeah, and it’s not like going back to the material with more time eliminated the story’s abstract intentions with its ending. I remember watching EoE for the first time and thinking “Man, some of this is even less concrete than the TV series’ original ending.”

The Cruel
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 355
Joined: Feb 19, 2014
Location: Hope Disposal Plant
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby The Cruel » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:55 am

I've watched the series with it's ending too. For me it's like the ending of Darren Aronofsky's Requiem for a Dream in which it ended with the spectators applaude the main characters. Overall the last two episodes are a journey through the issues of the characters and what they need to free themselfs and coming to terms. It had a good portion of surealism wich I also like from the David Lynch movies.

Then came End of Evangelion. Being bassed on the scrapped scripts for the 25th episode and ends the whole story of this anime in the form of a movie which is still built like some episodes, is a true masterpiece. Gritty, terrifying, nerve-splitting and singular. And the ending makes me think on Apocalypse Now in which it ended in a long silence before a certain character spoke the last line.

If I decide which ending works for me, then it's easly EoE, despite requiring the DC Versions of 21-24 or Death to understand this film. It makes the series ending just into a little bonus.

If I introduce Evangelion to some people then they should finish the series with EoE with EoTV as a bonus.

About the Manga, It was fun to read and having some certain moments in a different approach, though the ending didn't really satisfied me.

From the Rebuild-Films ending, about 3.0+1.0 (or rather FINAL 'cause it's easier to pronounce) I let surprise myself. There is too little to know about what 'll happen in this film despite the preview after 3.0. The only thing I hope is, that a trailer will come out in this year or even the film itself.
Last edited by The Cruel on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
I carry out things right to the end. No. Matter. What.

Avatar: I declare myself as WILLEs deserved enemy and Asukas and Shinjis punisher

You can (not) hope

„Unfortunately, those other fools and idiots gave you the most worthless feeling. And that feeling is hope. The unicorn alive shitting a magic rainbow is but an illusion.“
-Doom Head, Rob Zombie's 31

„If you were a better person, you wouldn't be here.“
-Loading Screen, Spec Ops: The Line

„Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously.“
-Loading Screen, Spec Ops: The Line

„It takes a strong man to deny what's in front of him. And if the truth is undeniable, you create your own.“
-Colonel John Konrad, Spec Ops: The Line

„Through the darkness of future past,
the magician longs to see,
one chance out between two worlds.
Fire walk with me!“

-Bob, Twin Peaks

Eleven
Tunniel
User avatar
Posts: 155
Joined: Feb 04, 2014
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eleven » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:49 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:And the manga just didn't know how to end, so bottled it.


I agree with that. I really like the manga, it was Evas incarnation I got to know first, even before the TV series. But that reset felt uninspired to me.

I prefer EoTV to EoE. Absolutely. When I saw EoTV I knew that the movie existed and I had read that it was supposed to be very unique and confusing, but it wasn't released in my country by then. I couldn't really understand why there was a movie at all. I cried during EoTV it was the best possible ending I could ever imagine. Of course I was curios about all the backstories and what happend physically during Instrumentality, but for me, EVA was always about emotions and the psyche and that was done perfectly with EoTV.
EoE is a good movie, but I really hate the beach scene and somehow, even though I'm not sensitive to that stuff in other contexts, the whole thing felt unnecessarily cruel to me.
I apologize for any grammar mistakes, as I am not a native speaker.

Glor
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 352
Joined: May 17, 2014
Location: United States

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Glor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:42 am

EoE was probably the best ending to any anime I've ever seen. Most of the show is about facing reality - and reality can be harsh and cruel. EoE is not self-indulgent to its characters, it doesn't hand them anything on a golden platter. In the end, it presents a very hopeless struggle, which just makes the characters feel all the more human.

EoTV was neat... I guess, as a character study, but certainly not a way to end a show. I felt cheated because 25 and 26 can be summed up as still-shots and sketches voiced over by Shinji. I honestly don't think the show would be as popular without EoE.

The Manga ending was probably one of the more disappointing endings to a series I've ever experienced. It made the entire 14 volume struggle irrelevant. Part of the message in EoE spoke of peoples utter inability to understand one another and difficulty to change to save themselves. That's what made the end on the beach a bit triumphant to me, because the characters had sunk so low and suffered so much, Shinji had been broken and ultimately decided to make a change - assured that one day others would too.

While EoTV drove at the same thing, it was elaborated on further in EoE and given context with events actually being animated.

Then the Manga just laughed and said "EASY MODE BRO," and reset the world so only Shinji remembers and is the only one that grows, I think? Seems like all he learned was that life does have a reset button. Most of the Manga felt like a fanfiction rewrite of the series anyway - so in other words uninspired and uncreative.

Lavinius
Pilot
Pilot
User avatar
Age: 22
Posts: 2005
Joined: Apr 13, 2012
Location: Oannentear
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lavinius » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:03 pm

It seems pretty clear to me that both the TV and Film endings are both depictions of the same fictitious-historical event, and indeed the latter seems to rely on knowledge of the former to inform about Shinji's and Rei's states of mind, so that it can't be taken as a replacement. If they contradict each other (which is difficult to say- the former seems not to care a lot about physical happenings) then that just comes from them being different depictions of the same event, not from them being opposed to each other or needing to discard one from your "so-called "canon"".
They both are masterpieces and I can't care about which is better, even if there were such a thing.

Sicarius VI
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 1143
Joined: Aug 12, 2014
Location: United States
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sicarius VI » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:24 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:It seems pretty clear to me that both the TV and Film endings are both depictions of the same fictitious-historical event, and indeed the latter seems to rely on knowledge of the former to inform about Shinji's and Rei's states of mind, so that it can't be taken as a replacement. If they contradict each other (which is difficult to say- the former seems not to care a lot about physical happenings) then that just comes from them being different depictions of the same event, not from them being opposed to each other or needing to discard one from your "so-called "canon"".
They both are masterpieces and I can't care about which is better, even if there were such a thing.


Holy Crap, Thank you, as this is also my train of thought with both two. Actually I saw that very long thread on TV vs EOE, never bothered to click on it, the TV version is just a version of EOE if it where all in Shinji's head. EOE also does the same thing but also shows you the physical world too, I don't see why I am at a loss for preferring EOE, despite the fact that they really depict the same event just with a diffrent focus.

Also just to say the TV version is much less ambiguous with what it had to say, and compared to EOE they flat out tell you, people that weren't satisfied were that way because it only ends the character arc of Shinji and really nothing else.
"I'm not going there to die, I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." - Spike Spiegel

Rei IV
Pilot
Pilot
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 2032
Joined: Dec 04, 2012
Location: USA
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rei IV » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:30 pm

EoTV: Good End

EOE: Bad End

Manga: Meh

Rebuild: ????
"I am neither false nor fake, I am simply me." - Rei Ayanami, Episode 25, "Do you love me?" ("The Ending World")

Jäeger
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 414
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jäeger » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:55 pm

View Original PostGlor wrote:
Then the Manga just laughed and said "EASY MODE BRO," and reset the world so only Shinji remembers and is the only one that grows, I think? Seems like all he learned was that life does have a reset button. Most of the Manga felt like a fanfiction rewrite of the series anyway - so in other words uninspired and uncreative.


Nopes, Shinji doesn´t remember anything, just that feeling streching Asukas hand. And it's even a more stupid manga because that's not the Shinji we knew, just a reincarnation.
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by its side???

mechashiva
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 181
Joined: Oct 22, 2014
Location: United States
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby mechashiva » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:17 am

I tried to watch EoE a couple of months ago to refresh my memory and I'm still not sure what to make of some of it, plus it had the side effect of keeping me up all night (I kept hearing things falling off my bookshelf and weird noises)

Because I got into the series through an analysis video that posited EoE as Anno's revenge on the otakus, that part is hard to shake given all the stuff in the series that is too subtle to read as "Shinji is the audience surrogate, therefore he is a socially inept otaku" and all the things that point to Shinji as too cowardly to connect with others out of his own perceived inferiority. Its all there, mind, but buried just below the surface of the action and drama. Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate but I definitely see the message going right over the heads of the fans as they watched the episodes as they aired and wanting an ending that wasn't so conceptual and then when EoE came out, they were like "WHOA! This came out NOWHERE!"

As for which I think is the "true" ending, it depends. I almost want to combine the two and Frankenstein them together somehow because I think the bulk of what happens to Shinji is interior (happening in his own mind) and something like an 'alternate' path of the Human Instrumentality Project; in other words a "bad end". BUT the army invading NERV and killing everybody (well, almost everybody) may actually be what was supposed to be happening.

I have a theory but its kind of sloppy:
The Human Instrumentality Project is going on with Shinji still inside. Everybody has already "graduated" and exited but Shinji is still having trouble. His mind is still inside the machine/apparatus/whatever it is when the army invades NERV. The reason Shinji is so unresponsive is because he's in two places at once, being questioned and poked at mentally. The infamous hospital wanking scene: he could initially believe he's somewhere else (with Asuka) and he snaps out of it to find his hand sticky, unsure of how it happened.

Like I said, its kind of sloppy and it relies on the montage of fanservice ("You just hide behind those smiles, keeping things ambiguous!") to either be happening in the chronology of the movie (you see it happen in real time as its happening) or through a delay (Shinji is experiencing it all every time he's on-screen and once the audience sees it, its through Shinji's eyes)

Ugh, I should go to bed.
:facepalm:
"Every child is an artist, the problem is staying an artist when you grow up."-Pablo Picasso

Tumbling Down
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 638
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Tumbling Down » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:23 pm

EoTV: Meh
I want to follow Anno's advice but it doesn't work i'll just hurt more people i am nothing please help me
EOE: Great

Manga: Terrible

Rebuild: ????

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 8365
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:23 pm

^ I think we’re discussing different interpretation, not different endings.


Return to “Evangelion Chit-Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests