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TehDonutKing
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Postby TehDonutKing » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:49 pm

I remember reading somewhere that it's possible to translate Yorda's lines, but i'm unsure of what it is.

Also, as to the relation between the Ico trilogy,
SPOILER: Show
Official explanation is that the relation is more thematic than anything, but The Last Guardian -> Shadow of the Colossus -> Ico was the intended canon order of events, but it doesn't matter, so the player can make up whatever timeline they want.
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Postby Sorrow » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:41 pm

The Ico games are very good at showing the story and not telling it to you. It can be mildly frustrating, but given that the games work so well as stand alones, I think it's nothing more than icing that they can even be read as events in a timeline.

The first relation to previous games that I and a friend thought could be the intention in regards to canon
SPOILER: Show
was the beast, that the boy looks after, would be a young Dormin
but that was in 2009; I'm not sure what to think anymore, and it doesn't look as if it would matter. Its selling point was in needing the PS3's powerful hardware for things like individually rendering each feather, if I recall, but that generation has been and gone with no apparent news.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:56 pm

View Original PostSorrow wrote: but that generation has been and gone with no apparent news.

Announced in August of 2013 that it'd be developed for PS4, iirc
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Postby Final Messenger » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:10 pm

Picked up Valkyria Chronicles on steam, main reason I did that was since I read it had dual audio little did I know the ps3 version had dual audio I just never looked hard enough. oh well not that I mind Valkyria Chronicles is a great game so I don't mind buying it twice, plus it gives me a excuse to play the game again anyway.
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Postby Sorrow » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:28 pm

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:Announced in August of 2013 that it'd be developed for PS4, iirc
I had a little look around, and couldn't find anything where such was stated; it was announced August this year that it's still in development, so I found, though no console changes announced. Ueda is no longer employed by Sony, he instead works as a consultant to a smaller Team Ico.

I found out two of the artists for Team Ico have since left, supposedly due to development delays, and are working on an indie game called Vane. The screenshots alone look quite interesting - if anyone is interested.
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Postby Joy Evangelion » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:30 pm

View Original PostThe Eva Monkey wrote:Shadow of the Colossus:

I thought it was interesting how 90% of the challenge isn't even in fighting the colossus. It's about just getting to somewhere where you can stab it. It makes a few of them, like the last one in particular, feel a little underwhelming.


Not to mention that's it can even be frustrating to just find the damn colossus. ^_^

I beat the game for the first time a few months ago, and looking back I'd say that the battles with the two flying colossi were the ones I found to be the funnest and prettiest, but some battles i.e. the bull, didn't feel as rewarding when they were all over.

Last night I was actually thinking about my favorite part in the game, which is
SPOILER: Show
when you have to use your horse to get across that stone bridge, although at no other part in the game do you use the horse that way. And Wander's reaction to seeing her fall was nice and sad.


I hope to get around to Ico sometime in the next few months.

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On Monday I started playing Majora's Mask for only the second time in my life, although when I first played it I was eleven and following the strategy guide to the damn letter(the thought that a puzzle ceases to be a puzzle when you know its answer had not occurred to me at that time. I solely wanted to tell my friends that I beat the game.) Fortunately my only real memories of it are; playing the desert temple when my school had a snow day, winning it all with the fierce deity mask, and not enjoying it as much as OOT because I couldn't have Link wear the blue tunic... there are somethings a boy of eleven just can't appreciate. So, basically it's like I've never played it before, which is rad.

I'm currently in the Goron ice temple, incredibly annoyed by having to roll Link all over the place, but having a good time anyway. Sometime since 2000 I forgot about the whole three day aspect of the game, but I've been pretty enamored with it this time(haha) around.

Recently I've also become sort of obsessive over getting things done in video games, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to attempt to get all of the heart containers, masks, etc. I'll post an update when I'm further along, only been playing for about ten hours or so.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:04 pm

I have been taking a step back from AAA games recently mostly because of the following reasons: Games tend to be stuck in a rehash rut, you have several series trying too hard to be "Retro" and missing the point, You have gritty realistic X reboot/orig game number 400000. :rei_meh:

ATLAS are amazing as usual and i hope they continue to be so and then my wallet will run dry.

Wayforward as you can tell by my avatar has caused me to fall in love :marihearts: , amazing sprite-work that isn't just used to feel "Retro" its used as an art-style and damn effectively, the soundtracks and game-play have given me some of the best experiences i have had in a looooong time, their stuff is cheap and some of it is even of steam so i say BUY IT, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A 3DS OR WII-U :rei_hissyfit:

Tree of Savior is the ragnarok online sequel i have been looking forward to for years.

Freedom planet is a great game but feels incomplete, will buy future DLC if any comes out.

Nintendo continues to be the only AAA games company i still actively support because they realize games are for (shock) gamers! they have fun with it and the 3rd party and 1st party games are always a blast, keep on trucking nintendo :kaworusparkle:
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Postby StarShaper7 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:39 pm

Shadow of the Colossus is one of my favorite games of all time. Most of the game is spent wandering through the wide area of the Forbidden Land. This allows the game to do what it's best at: create atmosphere and mood through great artistic/aesthetic sensibilities rarely, if ever, surpassed in the medium, which amplifies the impact and excitement of the action sequences and adds to the player's immersion in the game. Not necessarily in the story, which isn't too complicated, but just in the actual experience of wandering and fighting through these beautifully constructed virtual landscapes. You're the only conscious/living human in this land, surrounded by nature unspoiled by civilization. Wander's isolation, dependence on Agro, battles with lonely, magnificent beasts and dedication to Mono create an intimate, beautiful story told through few words, instead powerfully expressed through action and images. There's just this powerful sense of innocence and naive/ignorant contentedness that you get from the land, even from the colossi, like it's bliss. But there's also this sort of sorrow or dread, as if interfering in, even witnessing, their simple existences and leaving your dirty mark on this bare heaven is a treacherous yet inevitable sin and somehow symbolic of something greater about humanity's relationship with nature.

I really should play Ico sometime soon.

What other games would you all consider to have artistic merit?

The Souls and MGS series come to mind, among others.

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:16 am

View Original PostTehDonutKing wrote:I remember reading somewhere that it's possible to translate Yorda's lines, but i'm unsure of what it is.

It's possible to decipher the glyphs, but that only let's you read the pseudo-language in the Latin alphabet. In the Japanese and European releases, if you play through a second time, Yorda's lines are translated. But that one line in particular isn't, so unless you know what the creators intended it to mean, you're just grasping at straws. I've not yet found a definitive statement on it.
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Postby TehDonutKing » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:11 pm

View Original PostStarShaper7 wrote:What other games would you all consider to have artistic merit?

The Souls and MGS series come to mind, among others.

I'd say this should be its own thread.

MGS, Ico trilogy, original Crash Bandicoot trilogy, Souls, and Zero Escape are the first to come to mind. Although, Zero Escape is a visual novel primarily on Nintendo handhelds, so i'm not sure if it counts as a video game. If this becomes its own thread, i'll elaborate on my reasoning.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:06 pm

Super Mario Bros is a work of art, because the ideal way to beat the game is by never directly harming a single enemy.
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Postby Sorrow » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:02 pm

It's a work of art because it showed others what a great game could be; both from a gameplay perspective and how people will get invested in a completely off-the wall story like plumbers, who grow from mushrooms, jumping on turtles to save a princess for no reason other than being a good person. If I wanted to be inane too, then I'd have said "it's a work of art, because it's a piece of work that is art" or "a piece of art that took work". That would be avoiding the intended reading of the question posed, in a way that could only be intentionally misunderstood.

Of course, you were either saying such a thing to be funny in your completely unfounded reasoning, or it was a mockery of why many might consider the Metal Gear Solid franchise to have artistic merit.
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Postby Justacrazyguy » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:01 am

This just makes me wonder why do so many care about the artistic merit of videogames. Do you want to prove something to society? Are you like film directors in the beggining of the 20th century trying to prove to lovers of theater that films have artistic merit?

Because it seems to me like it makes no difference. I don´t see how the videogame industry would change if society said that some videogame is of artistic merit.

Oh, by the way, all the videogames I like are art and the ones I don´t like aren´t, obviously

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Postby Ænimal » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:12 am

video games aren't art; i know this because Roger Ebert told me so, and i can trust the opinion of someone who sits on his ass, eyes glued to the screen all day

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:08 am

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:why do so many care about the artistic merit of videogames

Because some of us have grown up on video games and have spent our whole lives hearing parents and mainstream media make baseless, uniformed claims about how video games make you anti-social, lazy, and/or violent. Arguing that they're art is the opposite side of the coin, which does have merit. It's important that they be recognized and respected as art. And that recognition as art also provides a degree of protection against things like censorship.
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Postby Sorrow » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:11 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:Because it seems to me like it makes no difference. I don´t see how the videogame industry would change if society said that some videogame is of artistic merit.
I don't think claiming games have artistic merit is entirely about condoning one's hobby. For some people I'm sure it's a concern, but I've never been met with opposition for having an interest in games, and never considered it anything less than other art.

It really isn't that different from film. If someone can view film as having artistic merit, then it seems absurd to claim that computer games can not. Like most super hero flicks, there are games that are solely made for mindless entertainment/to make money. But if someone seeks to convey a message or tell an intricate story, then it has as much merit as anything that would do the same. Only the manner in which you experience it is altered.

As for gameplay alone having artistic merit, then that can come down to how a game changes the format or style of a "type" of game; not unlike how artists change/develop/discard elements from that which is currently en vogue. How intricate and complex the mechanics can be, whilst guiding the player to the answer in a way that makes them feel as if they come to the conclusion all on their own; really quite impressive if, and when, done right.

It's just another area which presents creative minds a chance to experiment, teach, inspire, confound, attack, or even simply entertain. Like film, it is an industry plagued with the greedy, but it doesn't mean the medium itself has any more or any less artistic merit than others.
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:11 pm

View Original PostSorrow wrote:Of course, you were either saying such a thing to be funny in your completely unfounded reasoning, or it was a mockery of why many might consider the Metal Gear Solid franchise to have artistic merit.


No.

My parents bought a NES for Christmas in 1987.

Until 2005, Super Mario Brothers plagued me. The furthest I ever got was world 8-1. That level defeated me time after time after time.

I was 22 years old when the revelation found me: The game is just a pattern. Everything is a predetermined sequence and trying to defeat the enemies knocks you off that sequence and makes it more difficult to complete it. I was always too focused on keeping fireballs all the way to the end or whatever to perfect the sequence.

Now I can sit down and complete the game from beginning to end without ever purposely killing one of the "enemies" or even touching a mushroom.

A simple lesson but a lesson nonetheless. The game makes a commentary on the player's bloodthirst to destroy the little cartoon turtles. That is art.

Edit: Also the ideal path gathers some coins and ignores others, but if you go out of your way to collect them you will not play a perfect game.
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Postby Sorrow » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:26 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:A simple lesson but a lesson nonetheless. The game makes a commentary on the player's bloodthirst to destroy the little cartoon turtles. That is art.
An interesting story that changes my view of your humour, a little. Though, as a child it never occurred to me to take my time to kill every enemy; the goal was to get to the end of the level whilst dying as little as is possible. Going as fast as possible, jumping over everything, is a very good tactic in many levels, but sometimes you're required to bounce on an enemy (kill them) to reach a higher spot that makes your journey less perilous. Speed runs (the most effective way to beat the game, essentially) all seem to make use of enemy killing to progress as fast as possible. You would need to go out of your way to not kill a single enemy (which can be applied to more plat-formers). Then, what about dropping bowser into the lava? There is no way to avoid it.

You're reading into something that isn't there, I'm afraid. There's no such commentary and isn't why the game has artistic merit.
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Postby Chuckman » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:35 pm

If it's not there how did I see it?
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Postby Sorrow » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:37 pm

Because some people are more than capable of projecting themselves onto a piece of work that doesn't invite it.

"If it doesn't invite it, then how can I project myself onto it?"

Because some people will obscure something's intentions to suit themselves. Whether accidental (sub-conscious) or on purpose (conscious).
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