12th Angel, Rei, Lilith

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:04 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:I could of sworn it has the IPEA logo on it along with the Nemesis' horde.

Nope, the Code.04A has a logo similar to the IPEA one, but the tesseract itself has neo-NERV characteristic "pixelated leaf" logo:
SPOILER: Show
You can see the "Tangram-like part" of the new logo on the left side of the logo in that image, click to zoom.
Image

The BD version has a very high resolution and unambiguously shows that it's the neo-NERV logo.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:10 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:The imagery suggests that Mark.06 at least has impaled itself. This is reinforced by the later imagery of Eva-13 doing the same. We have no definitive evidence but I'd bet on this being Mark.06's own doing.


The only gripe I have with that is that when you pierce someone from behind, their back arches backward.

Also, when comparing how Eva-13 pierces itself in comparison to the Mark.06, Eva-13 lurches forward whilst being stabbed and arches backward when rearing up the spear for entry. Mark.06 however does this inverted.

Take into consideration that if the Mark.06 was to be stabbed from behind and its perpetrator pulling the weapon down and towards themselves, the victim would also be pulled backwards.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:36 pm

Alternatively, the Mk.06 was thrusting itself towards the blade.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:28 am

Or alternatively, the Mark.06 was still possessed by the 12th Angel, got impaled impaled from the front and the pose we see is it desperately trying to pull out the spear before it "freeze" him, obviously it failed.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:31 am

Perhaps Asuka was the one who went stabbity-stab, if I really want to fanwank off that illustration of her holding the spear that knocked Eva-01 out of commission at the end of 2.22. :shrug:

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:49 am

Inb4 Gogo Yubari joke. :lol:

More seriously, seeing how utterly trashed she was in 2.0 and the fact she had an angelic infection, I doubt that she was still in a state to pilot an Eva by the time the 12th Angel attacked, or even that she was allowed to pilot one, especially since NERV still had two pilot at that moment: Mari and Kaworu.

It's also possible that the one who impaled Mark.06 was the missing EVA-07 and its unknown pilot (assuming it wasn't Mari or Kaworu who piloted it)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:35 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Perhaps Asuka was the one who went stabbity-stab, if I really want to fanwank off that illustration of her holding the spear that knocked Eva-01 out of commission at the end of 2.22. :shrug:


I suggested awhile back that the Mark 6 was possessed by the 12th and that Mari and Asuka threw the Spears that stopped it and Lilith. I still see no reason to think that wasn't the case.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:More seriously, seeing how utterly trashed she was in 2.0 and the fact she had an angelic infection, I doubt that she was still in a state to pilot an Eva by the time the 12th Angel attacked, or even that she was allowed to pilot one, especially since NERV still had two pilot at that moment: Mari and Kaworu.


They didn't have Kaworu though, since the Mark 6 was autonomous and possessed at the time. Also, this could have been months or even years later: don't forget the 11th attacked sometime in-between.
Last edited by Bagheera on Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:37 am

Could be. Considering that we have no idea what actually happened, it's one of the more plausible theories I've heard.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:52 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:They didn't have Kaworu though, since the Mark 6 was autonomous and possessed at the time. Also, this could have been months or even years later: don't forget the 11th attacked sometime in-between.

Well, Kaworu could had used another Eva, he was already able to control any Eva he wanted in NGE and in NTE apparently a pilot can pilot another Eva just fine, so maybe he piloted the missing EVA-07, or the finished 08, or maybe it was someone else.

As for the time frame of the attacks, the Angels always attacked in quick succession, so I don't see why the 11th and 12th would suddenly wait months and even less years before attacking, not counting that it would leave NERV plenty of time to repair the defenses of Tokyo-3 and build new Eva to replace the lost ones.
Taking a big leap, if the time between the 10th and 11th Angel is the same than between Zeruel and Arael in NGE, then the 11th attacked one month after N3I, and since a "simple" accident with an ejecting entry plug left Rei unable to pilot for a month and half, I really doubt that an Asuka left at the article of death would be recovered by the time of the last two Angels attacks.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:12 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:As for the time frame of the attacks, the Angels always attacked in quick succession, so I don't see why the 11th and 12th would suddenly wait months and even less years before attacking, not counting that it would leave NERV plenty of time to repair the defenses of Tokyo-3 and build new Eva to replace the lost ones.


We already know from the preview that the Eighth (and thus by implication the Seventh) Evas were in development at the time, so they were presumably a factor against the 11th and/or 12th Angels.

Taking a big leap, if the time between the 10th and 11th Angel is the same than between Zeruel and Arael in NGE, then the 11th attacked one month after N3I, and since a "simple" accident with an ejecting entry plug left Rei unable to pilot for a month and half, I really doubt that an Asuka left at the article of death would be recovered by the time of the last two Angels attacks.


That's not a good comparison, since it wasn't a "simple" accident at all. The plug ejected and slammed into the wall before falling hard to the ground. Rei was probably far more injured in that accident than Asuka was with Bardiel, and that's not taking the latter's contamination into account. No, I think it's quite reasonable to assume Asuka would be back in action two Angels down the line. She was probably out of it for the 11th, but not the 12th.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:21 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:We already know from the preview that the Eighth (and thus by implication the Seventh) Evas were in development at the time, so they were presumably a factor against the 11th and/or 12th Angels.

That's a likely possibility, especially for Unit 08 which we saw almost completed in the preview.


View Original PostBagheera wrote:That's not a good comparison, since it wasn't a "simple" accident at all. The plug ejected and slammed into the wall before falling hard to the ground. Rei was probably far more injured in that accident than Asuka was with Bardiel, and that's not taking the latter's contamination into account. No, I think it's quite reasonable to assume Asuka would be back in action two Angels down the line. She was probably out of it for the 11th, but not the 12th.

I disagree here: after the accident Rei was still conscious and able to talk to Gendo, while next time we Asuka after Bardiel, she's in a coma in an intensive care unit plugged head to toes with life sustaining machines, for me it's clear that Asuka had it worse than Rei.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:34 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:I disagree here: after the accident Rei was still conscious and able to talk to Gendo, while next time we Asuka after Bardiel, she's in a coma in an intensive care unit plugged head to toes with life sustaining machines, for me it's clear that Asuka had it worse than Rei.


Being able to talk is no guarantee of lack of injury; given the nature of the respective incidents I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Rei had significant internal injuries while Asuka was mostly unharmed (given the way the plug was crushed it was almost certainly an all-or-nothing affair; either she was crushed, or she was in a part of the plug that was untouched). We don't see any visible injuries on her in that shot at the end, and she's not in an intensive care unit -- she's somewhere in Nerv locked down with Angel barriers all around her. She's there because she was contaminated, not because she was injured (though given the way Unit 03 was ripped she could have been in practically any state depending on how her connection with the Angel affected her sync with the Eva).

Anyway, my point here is that it's not safe to assume Asuka was out of action when the 12th rolled around. 11th, yes, but not 12th. I also think it's safe to say that Nerv wouldn't let Kaworu pilot one of their Evas, and that both Unit 07 and Unit 08 were Nerv designs. So I really think he was out of play for the fight with the 12th. My guess is that he and Unit 07 engaged the 11th (which probably led to the loss of the latter -- perhaps with Touji in it?), while the autonomous Mark 6 engaged (and was possessed by) the 12th. It then descended to CD and restarted 3I, which led to Mari and Asuka dealing with matters as I described above.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:35 am

She's not just locked down with Angel barriers, she's also heavily bandaged, hooked to a respirator and connected to at least half a dozen of tubes, she's clearly in critical situation, independently of any angelic contamination.

It could be possible that she participated in the fight against the 12th Angel, but I don't see her in a better state than in the unused draft of her fighting Zeruel: still heavily bandaged and barely conscious.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:48 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:It could be possible that she participated in the fight against the 12th Angel, but I don't see her in a better state than in the unused draft of her fighting Zeruel: still heavily bandaged and barely conscious.


If she's heavily bandaged and barely conscious against the 10th, having her fully recovered by the 12th seems not only plausible but rather likely. It just doesn't take that long to recover from such things, even when they're serious injuries (and don't forget, Rei's pretty frail to begin with; she's not the best point of comparison, particularly given the strength Asuka displayed in Q -- that indicates her experience iwith the 9th was transformative somehow, so that leaves me even more inclined to say she recovered quickly).

I really wish I could find a pic of her at the end of Ha, but my google fu is weak today. I'll have to check Ha directly when I get home.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:16 am

Since Zeruel's attack happened the day after Bardiel and Asuka was seen in a coma under heavy life support machinery, I think we can assume that in the initial draft she wasn't as heavily injured as in the final product.

As for an image of Asuka at the end of Ha, which one you want: her strapped to the coffin-life life support machine, or her appearance in the next time preview, because both are in the wiki?
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:13 am

The first one. I couldn't find it on Shiki's page.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:16 am

The wiki has it:
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C1338 slab.jpg[/wkimg]
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:13 pm

Thanks. Honestly, those don't really look like bandages to me; it looks like she's bound up in a containment suit or something, and that the respirator is allowing her to breathe despite it, not helping her because of her injuries. I'll have to get a closer look when I get home.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:58 pm

IIRC, the storyboard of that image is much clearer, and clearly shows that most of this machinery are life supporting, and that she's bandaged.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:36 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:IIRC, the storyboard of that image is much clearer, and clearly shows that most of this machinery are life supporting, and that she's bandaged.


That's as may be, but what we're left with is what's in the movie. We all know that things often change when going from the storyboards to the final product.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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