Bagheera wrote:It's called cloning because of the methodology, not the biological relationships. If you had a twin he would be a clone of you; we don't refer to twins like that because it's somewhat dehumanizing, but that's nevertheless what they are.

I'm pretty sure cloning would refer to an artificial replica of an organism. Twins aren't replicas of each other--or one of the other--they would just be written in a very similar fashion is all. Like two pages by the same scribe, but at the same time - neither is a copy but they have everything in common. Of course we both assume we're talking about identical twins all this time.

Bagheera wrote:That is not what I said. I said the taboo would prevent the love from coming to pass to begin with. The taboo is the reason why Shinji will never be able to look at Rei in that fashion, which is why "love conquers all" does not apply.

A social taboo wouldn't prevent love from coming to be, it would just prevent action for it. My point was that if they (were written to) really love eachother, then the opinions of others wouldn't matter - hence, love conquers all.

Bagheera wrote:Of course it is. People are spazzing out about the preview for Final (or lack thereof, I guess).

I have no idea where or when the preview is going to air--if it hasn't already--and I'll just watch it when it's on Youtube or something. I appreciate you letting me know though; at least I know why it's awfully slow right now.

Sorrow wrote:I'm pretty sure cloning would refer to an artificial replica of an organism.

Nope. Copy, not artificial. The term is actually in established use in botany, for instance, where many plant species reproduce by making copies of themselves.

Twins aren't replicas of each other--or one of the other--they would just be written in a very similar fashion is all.

What are you talking about? Identical twins are just what the term implies -- identical. Their genomes are identical, apart from replication errors (which would show up in clones as well).

A social taboo wouldn't prevent love from coming to be, it would just prevent action for it.

Sure it would. In Shinji's mind he knows she's a clone of his mom and is squicked out by the idea of being with her. That's a pretty good way of preventing (romantic) love from happening.

Bagheera wrote:What are you talking about? Identical twins are just what the term implies -- identical. Their genomes are identical, apart from replication errors (which would show up in clones as well).

More similar than clones, in fact, at least with our current technology. In essence we clone by putting an existing nucleus into a germ cell from another organism, replacing its original nucleus. This replaces all the chromosomes (and hence the DNA that makes them up), but does not transfer and replace mitochondrial DNA, which is additional DNA that is not in the nucleus.

Bagheera wrote:Nope. Copy, not artificial. The term is actually in established use in botany, for instance, where many plant species reproduce by making copies of themselves.

Fair enough.

Bagheera wrote:What are you talking about? Identical twins are just what the term implies -- identical. Their genomes are identical, apart from replication errors (which would show up in clones as well).

Their DNA is identical yes; because they're made from the exact same egg and sperm - but they're rarely, if ever, completely indistinguishable. Like the scribe writing the pages: using the same hand and the same ink, there will still always be slight differences between them. My point was that neither is a "copy" of the other (as in one came first and the other mimicked). I thought by you comparing it to twins and saying they're clones of each other that I would have to point out that "one isn't following the other or made to imitate" and that they're naturally identical - unlike a clone, in the artificial sense, whereby one is mimicking the other; it's hard to explain because it seems language is against me.

When you say "copy" or "clone" you usually think one is "original" and the other an "imitation", but having looked up the actual definitions of such words (replica, clone and copy), one needn't be "first" or "original". There is the problem with what I was trying to say. Neither twin is first or second, original or imitation (like Yui and Rei), they both just are identical. I don't know if I've explained that any better, but it will have to do - for now at least.

Bagheera wrote:Sure it would. In Shinji's mind he knows she's a clone of his mom and is squicked out by the idea of being with her. That's a pretty good way of preventing (romantic) love from happening.

Well, I don't think you can speak on Shinji's behalf, but perhaps (I'm not speaking on his behalf either, it's just hypothetical) the love (romance) he (hypothetically) felt for her before he found out the truth would continue strong - despite his revelation.

Sorrow wrote:I thought by you comparing it to twins and saying they're clones of each other that I would have to point out that "one isn't following the other or made to imitate" and that they're naturally identical - unlike a clone, in the artificial sense, whereby one is mimicking the other; it's hard to explain because it seems language is against me.

I don't see how order of progression enters into it, but FWIW identical twins start as a single zygote. When it splits one set of DNA is used to make the copy, so in a sense one twin was copied from the other. It's impossible to determine which came first, of course, but in practice the progression is no different from that of a body and its clone save for the time interval involved.

Well, I don't think you can speak on Shinji's behalf, but perhaps (I'm not speaking on his behalf either, it's just hypothetical) the love (romance) he (hypothetically) felt for her before he found out the truth would continue strong - despite his revelation.

I should think it would solidify into a familial bond; the exact nature of his feelings for her was ambiguous, but this is exactly the sort of thing that forces the issue and prompts them to congeal one way or the other.

Bagheera wrote:I don't see how order of progression enters into it, but FWIW identical twins start as a single zygote. When it splits one set of DNA is used to make the copy, so in a sense one twin was copied from the other. It's impossible to determine which came first, of course, but in practice the progression is no different from that of a body and its clone save for the time interval involved.

It's not much different from splitting the batch of play dough in half and proceeding to make identical models. The zygote splits into two - they were both once one; I don't think one is at any point "first" or in a sense copied from the other. I say trying to avoid the trappings of language from earlier; but I'm confident you know what I mean this time.

Bagheera wrote:I should think it would solidify into a familial bond; the exact nature of his feelings for her was ambiguous, but this is exactly the sort of thing that forces the issue and prompts them to congeal one way or the other.

I get the impression that should Rei from 2.0 return he would be quite made up to see her and she is probably part of the reason he wants things to be as they were. Unless it ends up conclusively, undeniably, with him interested in Asuka, it won't stop the "shippers" reading into his feelings for Rei and I don't think "they're related" would make it 1) an impossible outcome or B) reason alone to shut down their view.

It's just like the Kaworu shipping; people can and will read into it.

For what it's worth, I think it's building up to be Asuka and Shinji as much as it was in EoE. Though that isn't to say I want them to be. It makes no difference to me if he ends up with Asuka, Kaworu or Fuyutsuki.

Sorrow wrote:It's not much different from splitting the batch of play dough in half and proceeding to make identical models. The zygote splits into two - they were both once one; I don't think one is at any point "first" or in a sense copied from the other. I say trying to avoid the trappings of language from earlier; but I'm confident you know what I mean this time.

Right, but the way it splits is important. It splits after replication, which means one set of DNA was made by copying the other. That means one is first: the two sets of DNA are not created at the same time.

I get the impression that should Rei from 2.0 return he would be quite made up to see her and she is probably part of the reason he wants things to be as they were. Unless it ends up conclusively, undeniably, with him interested in Asuka, it won't stop the "shippers" reading into his feelings for Rei and I don't think "they're related" would make it 1) an impossible outcome or B) reason alone to shut down their view.

I have no interest in shutting down their view, though I think they should ship with the implications in mind (and I know many do). I'm just noting what's likely given Shinji's fairly mainstream upbringing and what he learned in Q.

And of course, note it won't be sunk by Shinji ending up with Asuka, nor him unambiguously ending up with anyone. Rei and Kaworu are dead, after all, and those ships still sail.

For what it's worth, I think it's building up to be Asuka and Shinji as much as it was in EoE. Though that isn't to say I want them to be. It makes no difference to me if he ends up with Asuka, Kaworu or Fuyutsuki.

I have no real investment in the ENT so it makes no difference to me, really. I just think Anno's (apparent) drive in that direction is odd and that it would be funny as hell if he left things open so MariAsu can continue to be a thing.

Even as a LRS fan, I have no real emotional investment for shipping in the theatrical movies. My concern is Rei be given an appropriate send off and the cast being able to get Shinji out of his catatonic state, with Asuka and maybe even Mari substituting for Misato in EOE. They could also have Rei fill in for Yui and give her goodbyes as she fades away.....and telling Shinji that it's okay let go and to smile and then begins a new beginning for Shin-chan.

God, I'm such idealist.

Shinji x Mari is the only way
Look deep into your heart, you know it's true

I actually used to sit next to a girl in school who looked a great deal like Mari... how have I only just now had her image appear in my mind as comparison? Glasses and all.

Mari's relationship with Shinji is certainly the weakest of the lot; involving Shinji, that is.

Sorrow wrote:Mari's relationship with Shinji is certainly the weakest of the lot; involving Shinji, that is.

Oh, I don't know - he's had his face in her boobs, after all.

^
And she does like his scent, and if I recall that's pretty important when selecting a mate.

pwhodges wrote:Oh, I don't know - he's had his face in her boobs, after all.

With that in mind - Shinji is truly the luckiest man alive.

Bagheera wrote:But more seriously, it will probably be the beach of a restored Earth, with Shinji and Asuka sitting there peaceful and content. He'll say something stupid, she'll call him an idiot, end.

To [s]butcher[/s] paraphrase Chuckman, we are brothers. My expectation was never that specific but even as far back as 1.0 I had suspicions that Rebuild would end with a blue ocean.

Bagheera wrote:I don't have the link (stupid computer crash . . . ) but TMBounty_Hunter has linked to the guy's Pixiv site in the past. There are a few parts to the threesome fic, mostly consisting of Mari teasing Asuka about it, getting assaulted, macking on Shinji to make her point, getting assaulted again, and then Asuka and Shinji actually hooking up. In the end Mari and Asuka are basically FWBs while Asuka and Shinji are a couple (with Mari harassing Shinji to tease them both).

BEST END.

BEST END comic artist guy's pixiv: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=3135364

The specific ones Bagheera mentioned:
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=33206438
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=34622959

Shinji don't want a strong female soilder girl. He what a Disney princess that gonna showing him whit love and be nice to him forever. No girl in Eva is like that. That why mari keep making that princess joke cause she knows Shinji is a closed minded fool that don't respect a female solder. Sadly he's not the one who think that way. Touji think a female belong in the kitchen and off the battlefield. Sugar boy only has eyes for Shinji. Guess who that leaves boys and girls? Like it or not kensuke is the only boy who wants a strong female and would respect them as soldiers. He's matches up whit Asuka or mari better then Shinji ever would. Who to say Ken didn't have a relationship whit either one of them over the timeskip unless you really think they gonna wate 14 years for Shinji?

Guy, you've got some fixation on Kensuke that's so intense it becomes downright hilarious, seriously!
Even your sig is hilarious: "Kensuke not a saint but at least he's not a psycho jerking off to a girl in a comma.", no, he's a lecherous opportunist that takes pictures of girls undressing unbeknownst to them to later sell them to the highest bidder, how's that better?
Besides his military geekness was only present in NGE, in NTE he didn't show any interest or knowledge on military stuff and seemed more interested by filming in general and the thrill of a "scoop", which was his motivation to go film EVA-01 fighting Shamshel.

As for Touji, sure he had a very retrograde way of thinking, but he was still a dumb teen back then, who knows how he's after the time skip (assuming he's alive of course), and for all the princess joke Mari makes, she still seems to ship Asuka and Shinji hard.

I don't think we should hound on someone's shipping preference, no matter how peculiar it may be.
I will say, however, that Kensuke is unfortunately the most undeveloped side character in both the originals and Rebuilds (thus far). He neither was shown expressing love interest nor did anyone else show affection toward him. Kensuke simply was too involved in his own individual hobbies.

On that note, to any Kensuke shippers, more power to you. It's a rather large leap of imagination given the little information we have on him or how others thought of him. Although, I think the bridge bunnies have even less development, and yet we see them more on screen over Kensuke. Irony at its finest.

I don't think we should hound on someone's shipping preference, no matter how peculiar it may be.

Soryu having hate sex with Shikinami would be kinda of hot, in a narcissistic away......And to think I got that idea for a ship from looking at your picture of Asuka hugging the more innocent version of herself.

Rei IV wrote:Soryu having hate sex with Shikinami would be kinda of hot, in a narcissistic away......And to think I got that idea for a ship from looking at your picture of Asuka hugging the more innocent version of herself.

My initial response I think should be:



But since you brought it up, suppose we cannot dismiss the possibilities of...