Does FINAL even have a chance?

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Postby bladerj » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:53 pm

I will only be satisfied if anno has secretly all along teamed up with legendary pictures and guilermo del toro to make a live action segment of final a la pacific rim.
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Postby Chuckman » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:20 pm

I will only be satisfied if the final battle switches from animation to claymation.
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Postby Ray » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:44 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I will only be satisfied if the final battle switches from animation to claymation.


Actually, that sounds pretty awesome. I'd actually be okay with seeing that.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:21 am

^ Only if the claymation is in the style of Jan Svankmeyer!


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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:44 pm

Freaky: you're burning a straw man there, dude. I was responding to the notion that assuming the audience cares about Asuka is a bad idea, not shipping or whatever else you might have been thinking. It's pretty obvious the audience does care about Asuka, just as it's plain they care about Shinji and Rei and Misato. Assuming such to be the case is thus pretty rational, and hardly a bad idea.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:53 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:In that context, is seems rather natural for Asuka to take a lower tier in the relationship factor than Rei or Misato in the remade films, considering that she technically was for most of NGE. (Despite living with Shinji, Rei and Shinji still seem to take greater interest in one another in the show, and not entirely for reasons regarding romance or libido.)


The difference between Asuka and Rei is that Asuka is largely a known factor, whose relationship with Shinji had been established very quickly in both NGE and Rebuild. She is a very sad, traumatized and messed-up human being, and we all know that. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out what trajectory her relationship with Shinji will take.

Rei, on the other hand, is a wildcard both plotwise and relationship-wise. We already know that she's connected to Shinji and Gendo, but how exactly will she move forwards? What will everyone do with her? Why does the show keep suggesting that there is something weird going on with her that we are not privy to? It's simply the mystery factor which makes Rei X Shinji so much more prominent - you've already pretty much paired up Asuka with Shinji, but what about Rei?

The same thing applies in Rebuild. Just look at how Rei's nature and role are as much of an enigma as ever. Is she Lilith's vessel again? Is she something else entirely? What's Kaworu? We don't know any of that. But with Asuka...well, we've seen her after 14 years and not much has changed. Whatever happens between her and Shinji is likely to fold out on highly predictable lines - I say likely, because the way Anno might throw a spanner in the works and give us a surprise is by changing the dynamics of the Shinji-Asuka relationship altogether, and that's something I wouldn't put past him - it's precisely what would draw an emotional reaction from an audience for whom the trajectory of their relationship is apparently clearly established.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:26 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Freaky: you're burning a straw man there, dude. I was responding to the notion that assuming the audience cares about Asuka is a bad idea, not shipping or whatever else you might have been thinking. It's pretty obvious the audience does care about Asuka, just as it's plain they care about Shinji and Rei and Misato. Assuming such to be the case is thus pretty rational, and hardly a bad idea.

Oh.

See, you said “selling point,” so I went ahead and researched all of the points at which GIANAX was selling the concept of Evangelion. In that sense, I don’t think it was a straw-man, per se. especially since GAINAX loves using shipping (or just forms of sexualization in general) as a point of selling their products of interest.

I may have just misunderstood what you meant by “selling point,” though. I took it to mean advertisement. :tongue:

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:52 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Oh.

See, you said “selling point,” so I went ahead and researched all of the points at which GIANAX was selling the concept of Evangelion. In that sense, I don’t think it was a straw-man, per se. especially since GAINAX loves using shipping (or just forms of sexualization in general) as a point of selling their products of interest.

I may have just misunderstood what you meant by “selling point,” though. I took it to mean advertisement. :tongue:


No, I meant "why audiences watch the show in the first place." How Gainax/Khara markets it is another matter (though you understate her presence in ads and such; we mostly get her and Rei doing shit, and the links you provided aren't really typical of what we see marketing-wise (and they suggest Rei's a far more central character in the show than she is; she started out that way, but as many a Reifag can attest she got sidelined when Asuka showed up and didn't come back into prominence until the final episodes of the series). I also think you're off-base re: Misato; yes, she's billed as the secondary protagonist, but I don't think you'd get much support for the notion that her relationship with Shinji is more important, either to the narrative or to the audience, than his relationships with either Rei or Asuka).

Also, what the bear said.
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:39 pm

Some people's near-certainty about Final is the most surprising thing to me, post-Q. After that I thought, "well, no one's going to make grand predictions about the plot anymore". Heh. Whether it's the ending, or how certain characters will figure into the next film, I just don't see how anyone can say where this train is heading.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:53 pm

^ Definitely, expect the unexpected.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:03 pm

The only way 3.0 + 1.0 stands a chance depends entirely on what YOU the viewer bring to it.

If you're one of those people who got your panties all in a bunch over 3.0 because :
"Oh my gerd, they dropped all that awesome shit from 2.0 where Shinji was a badass & Rei was his bitch & now Eva wasn't all gay & shit with that weird experimental bullshit & Anno stopped trolling me because he really cares what I think. And what is this shit? This movie is all people talking & emotions, where's Shinji's bitches cooking him food & where's the traditional three-act plot structure & wah, I don't like this cause I don't know what happened in those missing 14 years & I'm not gonna like this until somebody comes along & gives me the 411 on what went down between films! Maybe if half of the final film is flashbacks filling in the blanks or we get a pointless TV series that plays a game of Fill-in-the-Missing-Unneeded-Exposition then I'll give a film a chance!"
Then NO. The last movie doesn't stand a chance. You may as well quit while you're ahead.

IF you're one of those viewers who is willing to look past the surface elements - i.e. the mundane basics of the plot, character like-ability & what you feel you're OWED as a fan - then there's a very good chance that 3.0 + 1.0 will be the best thing Eva since the original series ended in 1997.

I think the new title - 3.0 + 1.0 - signifies that the last two Rebuild films need to be considered as one chapter in the Evangelion universe but I feel that's going to tie more into the human elements of the story. Shinji's arch as a character & how he will cope with the death of Kaworu & potentially reenacting or brining closure to his relationships with Asuka & Misato. What I am certain of is 3.0 + 1.0 is NOT going to be "Here's all the missing background plot bullshit that happened during the 14 years between the 2nd & 3rd films so now you can rest happy knowing what happened to Evangelion Unit 07 or 10 or whatever".

I can't wait.

(BUT I can wait for Khara, Anno & Co to release information about the final film when they're ready too. I don't view the recent non-trailer airing as a case of trolling).

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:15 pm

Dude, we weren’t even promised a new preview/trailer/whatever. We just assumed that we would get one. If anyone was disappointed in the lack of one, it was their own fault.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:50 pm

Does 3.0+1.0 (that title is ANNOying as fuck to type) have a chance?


In terms of a unique cinematic experience, probably not. Everything in the NTE series so far, as well as Anno's own interviews point to him wanting to streamline the story of Evangelion and make it more like a "tale" and less like a transcendent experience to be analyzed and obsessed over. Besides, he's already made EOE, so anything in that sort of vein would only be derivative.

Then again, we're talking about the master here who has something of a great talent for doing things that NO ONE sees coming, (i.e. the timeskip, changing Yui and Asuka's surnames, that fucking 3.0+1.0 title) so it's very possible that the final film could be as unique a film experience as EOE was, but it's a slim possibility that that sort of lightning could ever strike twice.
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:47 am

^ Yeah, a lot of it depends on what you’re giving it a “chance” to do. Simply because these movies aren’t as unique of a cinematic experience as NGE and EoE were, that doesn’t mean something amazing and truly unexpected can’t be placed in there. Subversion of narrative expectations isn’t the same creating a unique cinematic experience. You can have a unique cinematic film, using unconventional cinematography and editing techniques, and still follow every narrative trope in the book. Or you can subvert a lot of narrative tropes while using more conventional film techniques to do so.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:06 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Dude, we weren’t even promised a new preview/trailer/whatever. We just assumed that we would get one. If anyone was disappointed in the lack of one, it was their own fault.

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They definitely made it seem like something important. Miscommunication between Anno and the marketing department or deliberate troll? Who knows. I don't really care. Anno should be invested in the movie, that's what I care about.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:14 am

The part in bold is the Giant God Warriors Attacks Tokyo short movie, they really didn't promised us a new preview, just hyped us for 3.0 screening on TV.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:23 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:The part in bold is the Giant God Warriors Attacks Tokyo short movie, they really didn't promised us a new preview, just hyped us for 3.0 screening on TV.


[url]http://www.ntv.co.jp/kinro/[/url]
I just checked there, it's the same kanji and I was incredibly stupid...
Wow, it was just us hyping it up. I prefer it that way. It would have been too big a troll by Anno.
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