Why wasn't Kensuke chosen to pilot an Eva?

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Postby Ieyasu » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:27 am

How would Misato have handled it I wonder.
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Postby Atropos » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:29 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Gendo didn't know that EVA-03 was infected by an Angel, and absolutely not wanted to destroy Shinji emotionally.
That was an accident that was managed horribly due to the fact that Misato was KO with the ending we know, simply that.

Yup, "Gendo manipulated the entire cast to be emotional wrecks" is probably one of the most common misconceptions in the fandom today.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:27 pm

View Original PostIeyasu wrote:How would Misato have handled it I wonder.

By insisting to Shinji that he must fight to save the pilot of EVA-03 and try to devise a strategy to do so, instead of Gendo who had gone all "it's an Angel, kill it with everyone inside" and used the most retarded tactical deployment ever: you have the numeric superiority, spreading them thin to the point that they can't assist each other was the last thing to do!

That operation was a disaster from beginning to end.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Exactly. If they'd ganged up on Bardiel together, they could have disabled or incapacitated it long enough to pull out the entry plug and save Toji. Even if Eva-03 was lost, Eva-00 wouldn't lose an arm and neither would Asuka or Shinji be put through the torment that followed.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:06 am

^
In fact, I wonder if part of the reason EVA-01 was the only one available to fight Bardiel in Rebuild wasn't a way to correct the fact that Gendo looked way too retarded in his tactical deployment: although him being incompetent in military affairs isn't that strange (after all Misato was hired for that precise purpose, Gendo is an administrator), it would be hard to believe that he managed to survive against WILLE during almost a decade and half.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Ieyasu » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:16 am

I assume from the TVshow version of events someone had instructed the Evas to spread out in a line between Bardiel and HQ as if they figured they could stop it from a distance with minimal contact. After Unit-02 was just flipped on its back or something Gendo probably should have told Rei to retreat and attack it with Shinji together. He should have told Asuka to as well the moment they saw the target was another Eva without knowing its strategy. How tough are the Evas? would Rei's gunfire have stopped that thing?

Unit-03 was burgermeat when Unit-01 finally attacked it but I would have thought they'd have built Evas to withstand some of their own weaponry.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:24 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:In fact, I wonder if part of the reason EVA-01 was the only one available to fight Bardiel in Rebuild wasn't a way to correct the fact that Gendo looked way too retarded in his tactical deployment:

I agree - it was my thought straight away. Also I find Shinji's reaction more understandable that way, because I felt that seeing the two others defeated first should have got him more riled up and determined to stop it in spite of the pilot.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:45 am

If Eva-03 was turned to burgermeat so quickly, that was because - 1. The dummy plug made Eva-01 abnormally strong and 2. Bardiel's mutations, like the rubber arms and the slime, could have degraded the Eva's strength.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:In fact, I wonder if part of the reason EVA-01 was the only one available to fight Bardiel in Rebuild wasn't a way to correct the fact that Gendo looked way too retarded in his tactical deployment.


I agree with this point as well. Even if Gendo hadn't been so incompetent in his tactical deployment, someone else - like Asuka, who had already managed to team the three Evas up against Matarael perfectly in Episode 11, could have stepped up and suggested a better strategy. It makes Asuka look unusually callous - all right, she's not the most empathetic of people, she's a psychological mess, and doesn't like Toji, but would she let herself be taken off guard trying to tell Shinji who the pilot was, or really risk killing Toji? Any consistency in character behavior and action has been thrown out for the sake of the plot - which demanded that Shinji be traumatized.

Asuka proved herself to be smart enough to take the situation into her own hands once, and she could do it again. Like pwhodges said, Shinji should have tried putting in a better effort to save the pilot.
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Postby Ray » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:55 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Gendo didn't know that EVA-03 was infected by an Angel, and absolutely not wanted to destroy Shinji emotionally.
That was an accident that was managed horribly due to the fact that Misato was KO with the ending we know, simply that.


Sorry bout that, I was mixing Rebuild verse with NGE verse again.

Apologies. -o-;
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:19 am

^
Even in Rebuild, nothing indicates that Gendo purposefully traumatized Shinji for his plans, he was already very close to Rei, which was exactly what Gendo wanted.

Gendo did had suspicions that EVA-03 hided something bad due to SEELE's insistence that he takes it to replace EVA-00: it was never made clear if SEELE knew that Bardiel would be infected by Bardiel or even made it so it would be infected during it's trip to Japan, a deleted scene had SEELE reuniting in private and reveal that they sabotaged both Units 04 and 03 to weaken Gendo and collect data about Human/Angel interaction, but the canonicity of those events are unknown.

In the end, Gendo made it so Asuka would end with EVA-03 just to be on the sure side since she was disposable unlike Shinji and Rei, who were vital to his plans (using the Vatican Treaty and political maneuvers as excuses to explain why it wasn't EVA-00 which was replaced, which was the logical thing to do), and turns out he was right: EVA-03 was a poisoned gift, and poor Asuka suffered the consequences.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Sachi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:35 am

Even in Rebuild, the situation with Unit-03 is one that Gendo didn't plan to happen, so the manipulation aspect just isn't there.

There was actually a bit of discussion back in the day toying with the idea that Toji being a pilot would actually be a positive emotional thing in the long run for Shinji if Unit-03 never got infected. I'll link those below:

http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/8544/NGE-Toji-as-an-Eva-Pilot/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/4541/What-if-Evas-3-and-4-lived/?
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:50 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:Even in Rebuild, the situation with Unit-03 is one that Gendo didn't plan to happen, so the manipulation aspect just isn't there.

Well, as I said, he suspect that "something" could happen with EVA-03 since SEELE was pressuring him so much to take it from the US Branch, and at this point of the story he and SEELE were in a state of cold war (it's heavily implied that EVA-04's destruction was their doing), so he made it so Asuka would end with that Eva, Shinji being traumatized was a side-effect, not something he planned beforehand. That even played against him since the trauma made Shinji resign from NERV, forcing Gendo to find another way to awake EVA-01 before Mark.06 is finalized and sent to NERV. (which was resolved by itself since Shinji came back to save Rei and unknowingly awoke it to save Rei)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Sachi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:08 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Well, as I said, he suspect that "something" could happen with EVA-03 since SEELE was pressuring him so much to take it from the US Branch, and at this point of the story he and SEELE were in a state of cold war (it's heavily implied that EVA-04's destruction was their doing), so he made it so Asuka would end with that Eva, Shinji being traumatized was a side-effect, not something he planned beforehand. That even played against him since the trauma made Shinji resign from NERV, forcing Gendo to find another way to awake EVA-01 before Mark.06 is finalized and sent to NERV. (which was resolved by itself since Shinji came back to save Rei and unknowingly awoke it to save Rei)

I had been replying to Ray. Everything you've said I agree with, but the entire situation is something Gendo (in both canons) had little control over, especially once shit hits the fan and he gets forced into taking command of the operation to intercept the Angel-infected Eva; this was not something he wanted to have to do and not something he calculated into his plans. Therefore the idea that this was orchestrated to traumatize and disillusion Shinji is silly.

But I digress, as this is now off-topic and not the direction I intended to go.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:56 am

^
Oh, my bad. -o-;
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Tumbling Down » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:01 pm

View Original PostAtropos wrote:Yup, "Gendo manipulated the entire cast to be emotional wrecks" is probably one of the most common misconceptions in the fandom today.

That would be cool, though.

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Postby Atropos » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:04 pm

I find it more interesting, personally, if his seeming bastardry is the result of really poor people skills. Otherwise he's just a one-dimensional bad guy, and Shinji's hatred of him is more-or-less justified. If his problems are the same as the rest of the cast—the Hedgehog's Dilemma, never reaching out to people because he's afraid of being hurt—it makes him a far stronger character.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:55 am

Er... Kensuke? Topic? Anyone?
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Postby slothen » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:46 pm

Its more tragic that way. We don't necessarily know how Kensuke would react to being a pilot. We don't really know how Touji would have handled it either considering how short his tenure was. Kensuke, for one, seems to have a clearer grasp of the purpose and necessity of evangelions (protecting humanity) than any of the actual pilots, for whom other motivations seem more important. Kensuke admittedly has lots of romantic idealism.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:17 pm

Both Toji and Kensuke were acting thoroughly oblivious to the fact that piloting an Eva is a huge psychological strain - something they saw themselves in Epsiode 04 - two episodes later. Anyway, who's to say Kensuke wouldn't become a pilot once the next Evangelion was completed?
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Postby Kendrix » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:07 am

Gendo did want the kids to assemble, he explicitly told Rei not to get to close to it until Shinji arrived; It's just that Bardiel got to them before they could do so.

Wether Misato would have made a difference depends on how much such a thing was possible, with the core of Bardiel being around the plug and the material invading anyhing that touched it; The point of the whole exercise was not that you need to be less stupid to avoid causualities, but that sometimes the risk can't be excluded entirely. One thing that Misato certainly does do better than Gendo, however, is talk to Shinji, simply because she knows him better and is closer to his position on the 'sentimentalism vs pragmatism' scale, closer to the latter than him, but still able to understand his position and reactions better.

They presumably one have so many launch shafts so far out in the mountains and couldn't shoot them all to the same location.

As for Kensuke and Touji: Maybe Touji was moved higher on the list becausethey were in there in ep 3 and caused measurable interference? ...which, ironically, would have made Kensuke right next in line, but nothing came of that?

In any case, having seen that deblace in ep 3, Kensuke does, to a point, know what he's getting into; it's worth mentioning what he says in the next ep in regards to Shinji's comment about worrying mothers; His readyness to do dangerous stuff might be connected to some idea that he won't be missed that badly anyways, and he already seems somewhat independent, staying out in the mountains by himself, although you'd expect that of an only child living with a single parent.
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