Rosenakahara wrote:^ No it really did look like his punishment for the way he treated Shinji and Rei was being rejected by instrumentality an killed (though yui has no room to talk as she is the evil mastermind behind of all of this and thus shares the blame)

Right, but note he was killed by Unit 01, when we know Unit 01 was elsewhere at the time. What we saw there was no different than Fuyutsuki's vision of Yui or Maya's vision of Ritsuko -- it's just the form Rei took when collecting his soul for Instrumentality.

Even if he didn't get bitten in half the earth was basically wiped clean so he wouldn't have survived that and again im almost 100% certain he was rejected so im pretty damn sure gendo is dead.

He was tanged just like everyone else, and can presumably come back in the same fashion. As I asked NemZ in another thread, why would Rei/Lilith let people like Seele and all the other really horrible people in the world into Instrumentality and kick out Gendo? It doesn't make sense.

Bagheera wrote:He was tanged just like everyone else, and can presumably come back in the same fashion. As I asked NemZ in another thread, why would Rei/Lilith let people like Seele and all the other really horrible people in the world into Instrumentality and kick out Gendo? It doesn't make sense.

Maybe she simply doesn't give a shit about SEELE? And I was always sure that it was actually Yui who took advantage of the Third Impact spreading to the whole planet to get out of EVA-01 and give Gendo a little visit, and carry out his punishment.
In the same scene you see Yui, the three Reis and Kaworu, I don't see why everyone except Yui and Rei would be here if they were just a construct of Instrumentality, for me all of them were actually here.

ElMariachi wrote:Maybe she simply doesn't give a shit about SEELE? And I was always sure that it was actually Yui who took advantage of the Third Impact spreading to the whole planet to get out of EVA-01 and give Gendo a little visit, and carry out his punishment.
In the same scene you see Yui, the three Reis and Kaworu, I don't see why everyone except Yui and Rei would be here if they were just a construct of Instrumentality, for me all of them were actually here.

The Reis and Kaworu were in the same body at the time, and as I noted Unit 01 was an avatar of Rei. I mean, the alternative is that the Reis, Kaworu, and Yui (in the form of Unit 01???) were somehow physically present, and that makes no sense at all. Really, how is this different than Aoba seeing a bunch of Reis?

More jokes. Good god, more jokes. I hardly remember anything funny in this show. The only moment I remember laughing at was when Misato went through a phone tree and the guy at the top was playing golf.

There are lot of things in this show that could've been funny, though. Like SEELE. If everything I know about SEELE and the Instrumentality Project is correct, then Gainax could've defined their motivations in more explicit terms and turned SEELE into a comic relief of sorts, since their motivations are so damn silly. The best comic reliefs are also an integral part of the story, so there's no doubt in my mind that this could have been done.


Like, they could be snobs who think they know what's best for humanity, or, uh, total losers who are lonely and never want to feel lonely again, or, uh.. something else ripe for comedy, instead of just a group of spooky shadow men.

If i have the chances...

I would make a Rebuild-esque story where Gendo doesn't agree with Seele's Instrumentality Project, but still oppose the Angels somehow.

Wouldn't that be interesting?

Vikocho wrote:story where Gendo doesn't agree with Seele's Instrumentality Project, but still oppose the Angels somehow.

I believe it was called Neon Genesis Evangelion

episode 21 wrote:Ikari: I know. Today, I'm starting a new project.
I've already made the proposal to Chairman Kihl.

Fuyutsuki: You're going to do That?

Ikari: Right.
The way to become a god, which no one has achieved.
The Human Instrumentality Project.

Mr. Tines wrote:I believe it was called Neon Genesis Evangelion

lol, classic answer

HiImAnAlien wrote:lol, classic answer

Ah daaamn, then what i'm looking for is Instrumentality in general...

I want to see a live-action Evangelion where the story is fundamentally the same but there is a noticable Western sensibility.

That probably doesn't belong in this thread but I think the live-action Eva forum is closed.

THAT SCENE in the hospital room. That has to go. if everything else was the same except THAT scene I think I'd be a lot more comfortable talking about Eva with my friends. I think the franchise would be a lot more popular than it is in the states if everything was the same except for THAT scene.

I mean, couldn't they have used something else that was less Squicky to get the same point across?

Other things I would change? I'd add a 60 second after credits scene showing Shinji got at least a modestly happy ending after all he's been through. God knows he deserves it.

Ray wrote:THAT SCENE in the hospital room. That has to go. if everything else was the same except THAT scene I think I'd be a lot more comfortable talking about Eva with my friends. I think the franchise would be a lot more popular than it is in the states if everything was the same except for THAT scene.

I mean, couldn't they have used something else that was less Squicky to get the same point across?

It actually became a 'good thing' to talk about Evangelion, it depicts Shinji's struggle and problems clearly... though i agree they could have changed it into something else and still deliver the message. It's not uncomfortable to talk about it with friends in my case though since i don't have many friends :(

Ray wrote:THAT SCENE in the hospital room. That has to go. if everything else was the same except THAT scene I think I'd be a lot more comfortable talking about Eva with my friends. I think the franchise would be a lot more popular than it is in the states if everything was the same except for THAT scene.

No, that scene's important. It tells us a lot about what's fucked up about Shinji's relationships with Asuka and others, and is symbolic in a lot of ways (if she forgives him for that she forgives him for everything, for instance). It's incredibly useful in a narrative sense.

It also shows what Shinji is capable of, he does lock the door which shows he knows what he is doing and the intent. I remember people saying he didn't know what to do and wanted Asuka to wake up so he did an outrageous thing to do so which I disagree with as he locks the door, it would be different if he just did it on the spot without thinking. I personally would keep the scene because of said reasons, similar to Shinji trying to kiss Asuka in her sleep. It shows another side of him when others aren't looking as always when people are alone.

There's a lot of stuff I would change in Evangelion but it would take away from what it is, I always thought the original contact experiment was Gendo and Yui's bid for power to become gods through the use of Eva's as in a way they are gods themselves. I would make that change, also a lot of others. Including more Gendo, Kaji and new characters.

Bagheera wrote:No, that scene's important. It tells us a lot about what's fucked up about Shinji's relationships with Asuka and others, and is symbolic in a lot of ways (if she forgives him for that she forgives him for everything, for instance). It's incredibly useful in a narrative sense.

True that, although I wonder if the intent didn't backfired on Anno. He wanted to show us just how much Shinji was crushed and out of his mind by his recent experiences, and the symbolism with Asuka as you said, but people seem to have focused so much on that moment that it took away everything else Shinji did or felt: look around the Internet for opinions about Shinji, and you'll invariably find a majority of "whiny emo that jerks off a comatose girl", most of his struggles, his epiphany, his moments of goodness and badassery, all of this is eclipsed, he's "the boy who jerked off to a comatose girl".

Like Anno gives a fuck about what the internet thinks!

^
Well, he doesn't let the audience reaction influence him too much sure, but having misinterpreted his MC into "wanks to a comatose girl" instead of nearly everything he built for his character might had pushed to change his strategy for Rebuild.

Not like "Impact Boy" is all that much better.

A character can do all the good in the world. But if he does one act that is considered "Taboo' everything else about the character is pretty much eclipsed by that one selfish act. I hate to say it, but Human beings tend to remember the bad things rather than the good. Case in point a President can go to war for good reasons, but the media will crucify him for going to war altogether.

Maybe that was Annos intent with the rebuilds? Maybe he saw the way the western fandom reacted to Shinji's one really terrible act, and decided to apply something like that to the Rebuild universe to get some point across? Having Shinji be guilty of a crime so irredeemably bad, it makes all the good he did before worthless?

But seriously, couldn't they have come up with an alternative and get the same point across?

^
I doubt Anno cares that much of Western audience's reaction, Evangelion is primarily a series for the Japanese audience.
And since the setup for FINAL will be that Shinji will get better, making a point across (what point?) by supposedly making him make an irredeemable crime doesn't make sense.

ElMariachi wrote:I doubt Anno cares that much of Western audience's reaction,

The delayed release of the US version of 3.33 seems to indicate otherwise!