Does FINAL even have a chance?

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Does FINAL even have a chance?

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Postby Grimmjow » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:32 pm

FINAL has a lot to live up to. It has the entirety of the TV series, the previous Rebuild films, and especially the opus magnum End of Evangelion. Can FINAL live up to EoE? Do you think fans will even be willing to give FINAL a chance?

The other movies might have been forgiven for having to build up to the finale, but if FINAL doesn't quite measure up to EoE, I feel like people are going to judge it very harshly. It's difficult to craft a movie that has as much of a bang as EoE did. Because this is the end of the series, people are going to have significantly higher expectations than ever.

What do you all think? Do you think people will give FINAL a chance or it is doomed from the very start?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:51 pm

It's no secret that I believe Rebuild is a sequel to NGE and EoE, and with that in mind Final will put them to shame.

This story is actually exploring the full consequences of Shinji's actions, it's not just an exploration of the problems the cast face, though that's part of it, but the damage Shinji has brought to the Earth and his fellow man. It's not going to be as easy as saying I accept myself and want to live then ending the film a few scenes later.
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Postby artesox » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:31 pm

Is there any reason why Final must be better than/as good as EoE?
Because that is a pretty hard weight to put on a franchise.

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Postby Reiggae » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:35 pm

Judgement of the Final (at least for me) will mostly come from how they show Instrumentality and how it's different from EoE. Not only because it'll take up a large part of the Final, but also because the main reason why I consider EoE so great is because of how Instrumentality is handled. The filmmakers are in an interesting situation because they will most likey to use the Instrumentality scenes to show the characters' thoughts and motives, as well as wrap up the story (and it's underlying themes). But, they have to do all of this without making another EoE. We already got to see SEELE's idea of Instrumentality (where the World is set back to the primordial soup). I hope this time we get to see Gendo's idea of Instrumentality.
All in all, the Final is burdened with the task of being just as good as EoE, while still remaining somewhat original. (I also hope they will add in some meta elements, but that's just me)
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:43 pm

I am very skeptical. Eager, hopefully, but also skeptical.

Is it possible to be hopeful and skeptical at the same time?
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:46 pm

^
Cautiously Optimistic?
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Postby Ray » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:12 pm

Will it be as good as EOE? No. But I'm not expecting it to be. All I'm asking is for it to end with a modestly happy ending for Shinji.

No ambiguity, no "you must not run away" BS, no 'Congratulations!" on a big blue ball in space, no strangling anyone on a beach, no cutting away after a "Kimochi Warui" implying the worst for his future.

An Ironclad No strings attached HAPPY ending for Shinji's story arc. God knows he deserves it after all hes been though.
Last edited by Ray on Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Reiggae » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:26 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:No ambiguity, no "you must not run away" BS, no 'Congratulations!" on a big blue ball in space, no strangling anyone on a beach, no cutting away after a "Kimochi Warui" implying the worst for his future.
.

Even though the manga had a happy, non-ambiguous ending, that is not something you'd expect from The Master Anno directing. He also has as much creative freedom as possible, so I don't think he'll hold back this time. (I always thought the abstractness of the endings were the best part anyways)
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:46 pm

The way I look at it: NGE/EoE is its own continuity, NTE is its own continuity. NTE in Japan is mainly being made for junior/high students to get them into anime (whether or not they've seen the originals*).

I think Final has to properly connect to the previous 3 movies and end on the "right note" (whatever that means for Studio khara), but in no way does it have to "live up to" EoE, since they're two different continuities and two different methods of telling the same messages.

*Of course, NTE has lots of winks and nods to fans originally of NGE: Hell train as early as 1.0, changing who's the Eva-03 pilot, 3.0 essentially being a spiritual (not literal) sequel to EoE, etc.
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Postby xanderkh » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:06 pm

The way I see it, Eva in it's entirety is supposed to be synonymous with real life, in terms of satisfaction.

That being, WE'RE NEVER SATISFIED!

Eva gets a sad ending: "OMG! IT'S UBER DEPRESSING!!! HATE!!! HATE!!!

Eva gets a happy ending: "FUCK!! IT'S NOT EVA!!! NOT DARK AND GRIMMY!!! FU ANNO!!!"

Eva gets an ambigious ending (aka EoE): "WTF AM I EVN WTCHING!?!"

It's a kobyashi maru of satisfaction, in that no one is going to be satisfied with what we get.

The difference being, where levels of satisfaction create ambition and drive, Eva satisfaction causes fapping to coma girls and tons of butt hurts.
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Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
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Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
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Postby Ray » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:11 pm

I'd be satisfied with a happy ending. At least for Shinji.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:13 pm

I'd be satisfied with something other than "attention nerds: go outside, talk to people" the motion picture. Again. You made that point, Anno. Say something else.

Ray, stop whining about the endings. EoE has an unambiguously happy ending. Asuka was merely warning Shinji that she was about to throw up and wanted the stupid baka to hold her hair.

Yes, I know stupid baka is redundant. Chuckman cares not.
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Postby Ray » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:34 pm

"Whining?"

EOE was many things for me. . .happy was not one of them. I'm still hoping the Rebuilds can deliver a happy ending. . .despite 3.0 tossing us all into the pit of despair and pretty much destroying said hope. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby xanderkh » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:43 pm

I've said this before, but Eva is supposed to be synonymous with real life, in that you choose your own path.

The way I see it, Anno left it intentionally ambiguous for us fans to interpret it how we wish. Therefore, if we don't like the ending we are given, why don't we make our OWN ending? Continue it were it's left off and make our own satisfying conclusion.

That's why RE-TAKE and many other post-3I fics exist, to give us our own conclusion, just as we would choose our own fates. :)
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:51 pm

@ SSD

I'm really not believing they are separate, especially after thinking about what Anno set up in NGE about how there are no alternate realities only false dreams.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:17 pm

As long as it's happier than EoE and doesn't cull the entire cast, I'll be content.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:23 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:what Anno set up in NGE about how there are no alternate realities only false dreams.


Huh? I understood EoTV and EoE as discussing the real world/reality versus Instrumentality(=suicide)/fantasy world.
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:32 pm

^
There a lot of false realities/dreams out there, we only saw two (technically only one since the one where Asuka was with Toji was cut) Rebuild is one of those dreams (well in my opinion it is)
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:49 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:"Whining?"

EOE was many things for me. . .happy was not one of them. I'm still hoping the Rebuilds can deliver a happy ending. . .despite 3.0 tossing us all into the pit of despair and pretty much destroying said hope. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


You gotta find happiness. Ain't gonna be handed to you.

I'd rather wake up on the beach with a pissed redhead than a severed arm, you dig?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:58 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:There a lot of false realities/dreams out there


Ahh, sequel theory, eh? :tongue: I personally think at most, NTE is either a self-contained loop or (more likely) Kaworu himself is a looper, though I'm hoping NTE isn't a sequel/loop/whatever route because IMO that'd be a bit too cliched. Just have Eva: NTE be straightforward (well, as straightforward as Eva can be)...

Also, I totally second Chuckman's post above.
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