Is the End of Evangelion "depressing"?

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Postby xanderkh » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:57 pm

View Original PostDataprime wrote:I find it funny considering that Anno did give the fans an ending, yet everyone hated it.


He didn't give us an "ending" persay, Dataprime. He gave us the means to start our OWN beginnings and tales of our own.

Why do you think these stories are told in the first place? To take the messages to our own lives and make our own tales from them. That's how myths and legends start in the first place, so they can be remolded and retold so they stand the depths of time and become forever.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:09 pm

View Original PostDataprime wrote:Can anyone shed light on this?
Reportedly, Anno's depression was in remission during the making of the series, but then relapsed in the run-up to EoE, so they both bear witness to his state of mind at that particular time.
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Postby Archangel » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:17 pm

^ And it shows; ep26 even feels as though Anno is speaking from the heart through Shinji's mouth.

It's been a long time since I watched NGE but I distinctly remember ep26 revolved solely around Shinji and his version of instrumentality; as his soul and personality merged with everyone he knew and they all, collectively broke him out of his own mental state and he obtained peace, happiness and well being.

"Congratulations! Congratulations! Congratulations!" ...etc

For anyone with depression or anxiety, that sounds like heaven; to be free of those thoughts of uselessness or inadequacy and to just be happy and confident all the time.

In ep26 we see this; through all the trippy inner mind sequences we see Shinji grappling with his own mind, challenging his thoughts, and breaking the circle of thought->feeling->behaviour-> that has been plaguing him and he literally shatters and breaks out of his own mental state and obtains happiness.

It sounds very similar to the kinds of self help techniques a psychologist might suggest a patient try; I never really understood the metaphor so profoundly before now.

It works out for Shinji and he's now free... To enjoy a life as part of an ocean of tang :tongue: but he's still free! A happy end!

EoE doesn't!
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Postby xanderkh » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:43 pm

View Original PostArchangel wrote:
In ep26 we see this; through all the trippy inner mind sequences we see Shinji grappling with his own mind, challenging his thoughts, and breaking the circle of thought->feeling->behaviour-> that has been plaguing him and he literally shatters and breaks out of his own mental state and obtains happiness.

It sounds very similar to the kinds of self help techniques a psychologist might suggest a patient try; I never really understood the metaphor so profoundly before now.

It works out for Shinji and he's now free... To enjoy a life as part of an ocean of tang :tongue: but he's still free! A happy end!

EoE doesn't!


Well, EoE can work if you follow the Concurrency Theory. Think of it this way. The TV series is more like you coming to a self-fulfilling catharsis and allowing you to see life and yourself in a whole new way, while EoE's ending is trying to apply that catharsis in real life. It's not going to be an instant-fix, it takes time to sink in and apply, and sometimes it's possible to relapse. But, by that same knowledge, it's possible to move forward, even by a little, and that's what both of them are trying to point out. Trying to find catharsis, and using that catharsis to move forward. Think of the EoTV ending as the "First Step of the Journey of a Thousand Miles", while EoE is the other steps following.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:47 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Well, EoE can work if you follow the Concurrency Theory. Think of it this way. The TV series is more like you coming to a self-fulfilling catharsis and allowing you to see life and yourself in a whole new way, while EoE's ending is trying to apply that catharsis in real life. It's not going to be an instant-fix, it takes time to sink in and apply, and sometimes it's possible to relapse. But, by that same knowledge, it's possible to move forward, even by a little, and that's what both of them are trying to point out. Trying to find catharsis, and using that catharsis to move forward. Think of the EoTV ending as the "First Step of the Journey of a Thousand Miles", while EoE is the other steps following.


Oh hey, someone gets it. Nice.
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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:28 am

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Well, EoE can work if you follow the Concurrency Theory. Think of it this way. The TV series is more like you coming to a self-fulfilling catharsis and allowing you to see life and yourself in a whole new way, while EoE's ending is trying to apply that catharsis in real life. It's not going to be an instant-fix, it takes time to sink in and apply, and sometimes it's possible to relapse. But, by that same knowledge, it's possible to move forward, even by a little, and that's what both of them are trying to point out. Trying to find catharsis, and using that catharsis to move forward. Think of the EoTV ending as the "First Step of the Journey of a Thousand Miles", while EoE is the other steps following.

Of course the ending is here to mean that everyone's journey just began and that now that they overcame their demons, they can look toward the future and walk toward it.

But it doesn't change the fact that the last we see of them is a weird and apparently bleak sight where an insane Shinji almost kills Asuka again and the later express disgust (toward what we don't know since it ends here) with ruins, devastation and a freakish half of a giant head look at them, which could give the feeling that everything Shinji and Asuka got through during Instrumentality to overcome their issues was for naught.
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Postby xanderkh » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:43 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Of course the ending is here to mean that everyone's journey just began and that now that they overcame their demons, they can look toward the future and walk toward it.

But it doesn't change the fact that the last we see of them is a weird and apparently bleak sight where an insane Shinji almost kills Asuka again and the later express disgust (toward what we don't know since it ends here) with ruins, devastation and a freakish half of a giant head look at them, which could give the feeling that everything Shinji and Asuka got through during Instrumentality to overcome their issues was for naught.


As I said before, it's not an instant-fix and there is the chance of relapse. But, if the ending proves anything, both Asuka and Shinji have behaved in ways they never did before. Shinji was willing to take action and stop a source of pain instead of just being passive (Asuka indirectly, cause his mind was still focused on her being a source of pain for him due to instrumentality), and Asuka actually making a motion of compassion towards Shinji instead of being violent.

This shows that both of him have new viewpoints and ideas open to them, and that they have the capacity to adapt and change, but again, the journey won't be easy and it will be painful. That's the whole point. You may change, but the world isn't going to bend over and just let you frolic along just cause you have a new catharsis. You have to adapt and learn.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:16 am

Yeah, it's not an instant-fix of course, there's still a long and hard route ahead, but Shinji "behaving in ways he never did before" consist of attempted murder (which it's not his first try, he did it successfully in pre-Instrumentality btw) and that Asuka's gesture of compassion was punctuated with a comment that (something) is disgusting, it doesn't bode well for their future, it looks like they're already relapsing, even if it's not the case.

Or at least that's how it could be interpreted, and I think that many people who aren't as devoted to the franchise as us interpreted it that way.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Ray » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:14 pm

again, would a sixty second after credits scene really been too much to ask?
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:24 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:again, would a sixty second after credits scene really been too much to ask?


Yes, because it would undermine the whole movie. The point is that the future is uncertain but you keep going anyway.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby xanderkh » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:52 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yes, because it would undermine the whole movie. The point is that the future is uncertain but you keep going anyway.


Exactly. It could go either way, both bad or good. Humanity may never ever return, and they both may just kill each other....or, they learn from their experiences and try to make amends.

Just as with your own life, it can go either way. But you keeping going on, regardless.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Postby LegionWrex » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:45 pm

End of Evangelion is very depressing, but at the same time very uplifting.

It has a great message about humanity and the trails we go through, and how we may be sad sometimes, but we can always find something to live for.

But seeing your favourite characters bit the big one is pretty hard to watch.
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Postby chaosakita » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:54 pm

I don't feel like the last scene is so bad or that it shows that what Yui said is necessarily false. I think even if you do have a positive revelation in your life, it doesn't mean you wake up and that the next day is going to be perfect or that you aren't going to keep on struggling. I think the ambiguity of the last scene is a reflection on how ambiguous life in general is. I guess it is a bit dramatic but so is most of what happened in the show.

I feel like Evangelion is really a show that you bring your own meaning to. I don't think I'll ever stop seeing the End of Evangelion as optimistic because that's the kind of person I am.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:59 pm

View Original Postchaosakita wrote:I don't feel like the last scene is so bad or that it shows that what Yui said is necessarily false. I think even if you do have a positive revelation in your life, it doesn't mean you wake up and that the next day is going to be perfect or that you aren't going to keep on struggling. I think the ambiguity of the last scene is a reflection on how ambiguous life in general is. I guess it is a bit dramatic but so is most of what happened in the show.

I feel like Evangelion is really a show that you bring your own meaning to. I don't think I'll ever stop seeing the End of Evangelion as optimistic because that's the kind of person I am.


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For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby FinH » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:50 pm

I found the end of 'End of...' to be cautiously optimistic and full of potential. It really is the absolute renaissance of the human species so the possibilities are boundless.

And, really, the sheer scale of the events and the level of upheaval involved is so profound that it sort of transcends any normal notions of "Aw no, so-and-so got bumped off" or "Oh, I thought they'd end up together" and operates in a much grander arena.

So, affecting and emotional - yeah - but depressing? Nah, I didnt find it so.

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Postby EvangelionGodMode » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:44 pm

Yea it was to me at first, because the only things i understood was the character deaths and all the bad things that happen, but after a few more rewatches i understand a little bit better and realize that the ending isn't all that sad and actually is kinda uplifting.
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Postby Dataprime » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:28 am

As I watched the movie again last night today have a fresh perspective on it.
The very first time I watched EOE I actually got really depressed (in every sense of the word).
But after repeated viewings however, I seem to get more positive with each time
and the message the film tells me gets more clear and makes more sense.
It's a very powerful movie.


That quote from Yui really sticks out in my head.
"As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right."

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Postby NemZ » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:47 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yes, because it would undermine the whole movie. The point is that the future is uncertain but you keep going anyway.


I agree it wouldn't work with the rest of the film, but the ending's bleakness already does a fine job of asking if coming back to reality was a huge mistake.
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:58 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I agree it wouldn't work with the rest of the film, but the ending's bleakness already does a fine job of asking if coming back to reality was a huge mistake.


Faith untested is meaningless.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby xPearse » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:55 am

Depressing.......yes. I was severely disappointed, it just broke me. I didn't even want to watch the movie so much I put it off an entire month but watched it yesterday. Before going in I knew I wouldn't like it which you could say sort of took away my enjoyment from the movie, it's just everything about it and the thing I never wanted to see most......was this.
http://wiki.evageeks.org/images/3/34/Shinji-rei-interstice-1.jpg
Rei sitting on top of Shinji's dick, that's going to plague my memory for all eternity but I'm pretty sure there some "deep" meaning behind it, usually is.....right? It just further backs up the incest vibe with them being "joined" and all in that scene, yea yea I know people are gonna hate me bringing that up but whatever. Don't get my started on the amount of nudity and nipples drawn in the movie, it just like the Rei clones in the DC where they pointlessly added nipples onto them for no reason.

I also didn't like the Disney style ending talking about how awesome the human heart and soul is, I hate that stuff. I know I'm coming off as angry but I'm just pissed off at the moment, hated the TV ending and then I got this. The only thing left is rebuild and that's another can of worms I know I won't like, Anima's looking up at this point because at least there everyone lives and the story continues just like I wanted. I refrained from mentioning Anno as I know you guys don't like people attacking him but there's just so much thing I want to smash his face off. I never wanted to see Rei's arm fall off, that part horrified me and I'm blaming Anno for that one. Again my bad for the angry response.


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