Misato's feelings towards Shinji at the start of Q

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Misato's feelings towards Shinji at the start of Q

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 20, 2014 4:29 am

(This is a continuation of a conversation in the wrong topic, as linked from the quote below - a mod might like to bring over the earlier messages that fit here.)

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Mind putting a scan of the relevant page? But in a more appropriate topic, I think we're kinda derailing that one.

Here are the frames for the earlier scene discussed:
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image

And here is the later one:
SPOILER: Show
Image
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 20, 2014 4:33 am

^
I think I see contempt and hurt in her eyes to be honest. I know she has other emotions for him but that's what I see at that moment, maybe a wee bit indifference too.

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Postby airman4 » Tue May 20, 2014 4:48 am

I see worrying
she is worried as a mother who see his son derailling shit

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Re: Misato's feelings towards Shinji at the start of Q

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 20, 2014 5:07 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Here are the frames for the earlier scene discussed:
SPOILER: Show


That confirms what I thought earlier, she's deep in thought here, probably trying to sort out the shitstorm of conflicting emotions and sense of duty raging inside her mind.


View Original Postpwhodges wrote:And here is the later one:
SPOILER: Show

If we follow the mother angle as airman4 suggested, it could be interpreted as a mother scolding her child for saying or doing something bad/stupid.
Him requesting to EVA-01 obviously enter in that category.
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Postby robersora » Tue May 20, 2014 6:21 am

It's so rare to see facial expression animated to begin with, and then you can read so many things from it in Q. You just gotta love the facial animation in Q. This kinda reminds me of the subtle movings of Ritsuko's head in Episode 23, shortly before her breakdown. You can see that she's about to lose her cool. Love it.

In this particular case I'd say Misato seems concerned, troubled. Conflicted between what she ought to do as a crew leader and what she wants to as a human being. But most of all I can see extreme emotional pressure until the moment she puts her glasses off. Then it looks like utter contempt and arrogance.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue May 20, 2014 7:13 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:^
I think I see contempt and hurt in her eyes to be honest. I know she has other emotions for him but that's what I see at that moment, maybe a wee bit indifference too.


This. The middle one, at most, might have some lingering pity if you squint, but that depends on where her eyebrow is and we don't see most of it. Could be just a generic 'hardened old person who is dead inside' expresson.

The first one is just strict or disdainful.
The last one is almost downright spiteful. (Especially when coupled with... she must have known what that exact line would do to him. Anyone else, I wouldn't assume malice where stupidity or lack of ability suffices, but not Misato. She understands this exactly. )

That said, the thing about Misato's emotional state is not that she has much of one feeling and little of another, but that both strong negative and strong positive feelings are present in comparable quantities, and she's actively trying to keep all of that volatile mixture under the lid so she can keep captaining her airship with some semblance of rationality.
Note how she leaves most of talking to the more calm Ritsuko who, while less cynical than her series or pre-timeskip self, is more capable of being cold and objective about it.

It might not be that much, or not only Shinji himself as that he used to be a sort of 'morality chain' for her and expects her earlier, less pragmatic modus operandi to be in place, from back when she had time and ressources for the life of a single girl and the like. She probably didn't like compromizing her ethics; It must have been a gradual, painful and frustrating process.
He's an inconvenient, ugly mirror of her past self.

---

In any case, it is noteworthy that we have a parallel to her introduction scene here. She first shows up with sunglasses, too. They mainly serve to make her look cool, but also set us up for a sort of 'reveal' when we first see the 'windows to her soul'.
In ep 1/ 1.11, this is a moment that obviously says, "Here is a token nice person, you can even call her by her first name!"
Q!Misato is probabl purposely kept aside/ambiguous at first, too, untill her eyes are 'revealed', and... yeah. At very least we can agree that they no longer look like they did in 1.11, however you chose to classify the present state.

I don't think Mitsuishi-san would've had such a "Wait, why is she saying things that will obviously make that kid uncooperative"-experience if she was told to play Misato that uber concerned. Struggling, and not entirely suceeding to fight back unwanted old emotions? Very obviously, that's how Shinji is even alive anymore. But "just pleasing her crew and secretly wanting to hug him" or "strict parent mode"? Seems like wishful thinking to me personally. The former is particularly ridiculous since Sakura & co practically worship the ground she walks on. No one would question it if she took a few minutes to speak with the prisoner one on one, or with just Sakura present.
"Please be very, very cold" indeed.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 20, 2014 7:50 am

Crazy theory (not that much) :
Shinji just requested to pilot again to go help Asuka. So what if Misato decided to use a disdainful look and venomous voice to remove his desire to help, since after the fallout with his father after Bardiel, helping is obviously the only thing that incite him to pilot (after all he fought Zeruel mainly to save Rei), so it would definitively remove his desire to pilot the Eva.
Of course that would also antagonize him, but she probably thought that it was an acceptable price to pay for mankind's safety.

And it did worked alright, he very quickly lost all trust in them and wanted nothing to do with them (which included to pilot the Eva to help), except Misato couldn't imagine that neo-NERV would be here to "save" him, making her little strategy to discourage Shinji from piloting horribly backfire on her when he happily ditched them to go with "Rei".
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Postby Dataprime » Tue May 20, 2014 8:32 am

The way I interpret it is that Misato still cares about Shinji to some degree
but given her rank & position now she can't let her emotions interfere with
her work and thus hides her true feelings.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 20, 2014 9:46 am

^
Oh no doubt Good Sir, I think that's the only reason Shinji's head isn't in a million tiny pieces right now.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue May 20, 2014 10:29 am

I definitely don't see contempt in the first one. It looks more like a little bit of surprise, and then moving on to "Shit. He's really here, isn't he." Just my two cents on that. As for the second one, the face drawing definitely looks like it holds contempt, the but larger image looks different. Misato really doesn't look like she wants to be playing this role, indicative of her later reluctance to blow off Shinji's noggin with the DSS choker.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue May 20, 2014 11:45 am

Just to precise : the two images represent two different scenes :

The first one is when Misato is asking to Ritsuko if the boy down there is really Shinji Ikari (just before Ritsuko gives her the command for the DSS Choker) :
SPOILER: Show
Image


And the second image is from her infamous "From now on... you'll do nothing" line :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C0271 nanimo.jpg[/wkimg]


Personally, if she really felt pure contempt or hatred toward him, she would make a frowning face even when just talking about him, not just when she's talking directly at him.
Which could ties with the theory that she upped the contempt when answering to him to discourage him to help them and thus make him lose his only motivation for wanting to pilot, even if it means to antagonize him.
Last edited by ElMariachi on Tue May 20, 2014 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue May 20, 2014 11:57 am

Yeah, I remember. I had the BD open when I was writing.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 20, 2014 1:23 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:I definitely don't see contempt in the first one. It looks more like a little bit of surprise, and then moving on to "Shit. He's really here, isn't he." Just my two cents on that. As for the second one, the face drawing definitely looks like it holds contempt, the but larger image looks different. Misato really doesn't look like she wants to be playing this role, indicative of her later reluctance to blow off Shinji's noggin with the DSS choker.


Oh for the contempt part, that's in the second spoiler. In the first spoiler I see indifference turn into hurt.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue May 20, 2014 3:03 pm

There's definitely a change in her expression in the second spoiler. There is indeed contempt, but I'm more interested in the expression that comes before it.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 20, 2014 3:08 pm

Maybe disgust or conviction? The eyes and mouth without a face kind of reminds me of a face that a stereotypical Tsundere would make when talking, so maybe annoyance? The picture that is next to it is the one with contempt, to me at least.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue May 20, 2014 3:22 pm

I'm of the impression that the full face came first, then followed by the drawing of just the eyes and mouth. I think the first one (full face) is more... you know, maybe it's disappointment. Just a thought.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue May 20, 2014 3:29 pm

Meh, no idea bro, I think I'll stick with contempt for the full face though.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue May 20, 2014 7:14 pm

Watched the part of the third pic on the BD. She looks sad, but she's hiding it. Isn't escaping from Shinji what Gendo did? But he didn't want to hurt him. Misato is turning into a Gendo.
But really, we need some Instrumentality in 4.0 to really know what's going on in her head.
Misato's change is one of the things that hurts the most in 3.0. I love this film.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue May 20, 2014 10:03 pm

Misato's going to have a great heart-breaking moment in Final where she opens up to Shinji a.la End of Evangelion. I'll be in tears. We'll be in tears. It'll be magical.

Misato's coldness in 3.0 has never bothered me because you can tell from the way she's animated & voiced (in Japanese not the misguided dubs) that there's A LOT of emotions bubbling under the surface. I'm positive it's one of the few things I can positivly feel will be in Final.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Wed May 28, 2014 12:31 am

Here's what I see in those faces; pain, hurt, sorrow, contempt, discomfort, disgust, indifference, sympathy, pity, and recognition.


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