Rebuild of Evangelion 1-3: Adams and other Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Had a thought.

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Postby LMwanderer » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:44 am

I was thinking about the connection of the Adams.

We heard that the Mark 09 was an Adams Vessel. If it is the vessel of a soul, and if by some chance it isn't just the core of the Wunder, could it possibly be it was the core of the Key of Nebuchadnezzar removed as that could make it a "lost number"? I just noticed that it does seem the original head of the Mark 09 was primarily of a mechanical build and the Key lacks one as well. Could it be the core was separated out to be regenerated into a form that resembled its original body? Still begs the question if the head may still be floating around somewhere. Or it could be nothing.

That could give us a better idea of what's what.

Lilith: Now Eva-01 as seemingly the only remainder.
Adam-01: Found on the moon and remodeled into the Mark-06. Eliminated.
Adam-02: The Key as the physical body and the core as the Mark-09. In Gendo's possession/Eliminated.
Adam-03/04: Merged and converted into Eva-13. Temporarily Neutralized.
Wunder: Possibly the only remainder of a possible White Moon or equivalent.

It seems that third impact was an Adam and Lilith merging with an Angel intermediary. The ultimate goal seemed to be thus far to unite as many more powerful entities into their own twisted complementation to kick-start instrumentality on everyone else.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:01 am

Those weren't Adams at all.

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Postby Corpex » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:39 am

Nebuchadnezzar key = Adam Body 1
EVA00, 02, etc = Adam clones 1
Kaworu = Adam´s soul vessel 1


Lilith = Adam Body 2
Eva01 = Adam clone 2 ("pure" direct build from Lilith)
Rei = Adam´s soul vessel 2


Adam located inside the Moon = Adam Body 3
Mark06 = Adam clone 3 ("pure" direct built from Adam3)
Mark09 = Adam´s soul vessel 3



EVA13 = Adam Body 4
no clones
EVA13 = Adam´s soul vessel 4




:cringe:

pd:
-Wunder = Adam 3´s pet or maybe Wunder is built from Adam 3 pieces
-Mark-series comes from Adam 3, but mark06 is the "perfect clone"
-Adam body/clone + Adam soul = Completed Adam
-Completed Adam + Trigger = Impact
-Mark09 maybe is the only Mark who comes from Adam 1 (Nebuchadnezzar ´s clone) but it contains Adam 3´s soul. So it´s not considered as a Completed Adam
Last edited by Corpex on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:19 am

View Original PostCorpex wrote:Lilith = Adam Body 1
Eva01 = Adam clone 1
Rei = Adam´s soul vessel 1

Lilith is Lilith, the big marshmallow thing nailed to the cross in Central Dogma, she ahs nothing to do with the four ADAMs.
Also we don't know if the NGE lore about EVA-01 and Rei's soul is valid for Rebuild, but if it's the case, EVA-01 isn't a clone of Lilith, it was made directly from its flesh, you can almost consider it a "second Lilith", and Rei had Lilith's soul.


View Original PostCorpex wrote:Adam located inside the Moon = Adam Body 2
Mark06 = Adam clone 2
Mark09 = Adam´s soul vessel 2

Mark.06 is the ADAM in the Moon, in 2.0 you can see the giant being armored with Mark.06's armor when Gendo and Fuyu goes visiting the moon base.

As for Mark.09, we don't know what this "ADAMs' Vessel" business mean, the only thing we know is that it's whole body is a core, and that it was the thing controlling the Wunder.

As for the rest, we're still at the state of speculation, we don't even know of the other "normal" Evas (00, 02, 03...) are clones of ADAMs like in NGE, or something else.
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Postby Corpex » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:38 am

well I´m just only speculating xD this things can not be proven, but could be possible.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Lilith is Lilith, the big marshmallow thing nailed to the cross in Central Dogma, she ahs nothing to do with the four ADAMs.
Also we don't know if the NGE lore about EVA-01 and Rei's soul is valid for Rebuild, but if it's the case, EVA-01 isn't a clone of Lilith, it was made directly from its flesh, you can almost consider it a "second Lilith", and Rei had Lilith's soul.


In NGE Lilith was first considered as Adam, we didn´t know Lilith was Lilith until the middle of the series. Maybe Hideaki Anno want to make the same thing, but inverse. edit: Maybe new Lilith´s mask means something

I consider the term "clone" as a body made from parts of a main body, so i consider Eva01 been a clone of Lilith

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Mark.06 is the ADAM in the Moon, in 2.0 you can see the giant being armored with Mark.06's armor when Gendo and Fuyu goes visiting the moon base.


mark06-adam02 could be a clone made in the same way eva01-lilith. Eva01 was a "giant being" too when he was built from lilith:
SPOILER: Show
Image

edit: we cannot see the legs when mark06 is in the moon
edit: i mean.. why not? the moon could be a white/black moon where this Adam resides..

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:As for Mark.09, we don't know what this "ADAMs' Vessel" business mean, the only thing we know is that it's whole body is a core, and that it was the thing controlling the Wunder.

mark09 could be perfectly a adam´s soul vessel (same as kaworu or Rei) but instead of one human its one eva...

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:As for the rest, we're still at the state of speculation, we don't even know of the other "normal" Evas (00, 02, 03...) are clones of ADAMs like in NGE, or something else.


as I said this is speculation, we dont know yet these things xD

edit:
-sorry for my bad English u.u
-i have edited the first post changing the order of the adams and adding new thing at the end =D

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:30 am

View Original PostCorpex wrote:In NGE Lilith was first considered as Adam, we didn´t know Lilith was Lilith until the middle of the series. Maybe Hideaki Anno want to make the same thing, but inverse. edit: Maybe new Lilith´s mask means something

Even Kaworu identified her as Lilith in 3.0, when she was long dead and there wasn't any reason to potentially lie, and Kaworu is an Angel, he can feel if a SoL is ADAM or Lilith. So the marshmallow on the cross was Lilith.
She was probably presented as such since the beginning to streamline the plot, same thing that with the mother soul necessary to pilot an Eva that disappeared in Rebuild. As for the mask, it's obviously to make us endlessly speculate of course! :D

View Original PostCorpex wrote:I consider the term "clone" as a body made from parts of a main body, so i consider Eva01 been a clone of Lilith

Except that there's a distinction made in NGE, and by proxy in Rebuild : all the units except 01 were cloned from ADAM, meaning that its DNA was used to grow a body from scratch, which will be used as an Evangelion.
01 was created from a separated piece of flesh from Lilith and "molded" into the humanoid shape of Shogouki.
The important point is that the other Evas were mere copies of the original, and thus less powerful, while 01 was made of Lilith's flesh, making it "pure" and more powerful.


View Original PostCorpex wrote:mark06-adam02 could be a clone made in the same way eva01-lilith. Eva01 was a "giant being" too when he was built from lilith:
SPOILER: Show

edit: we cannot see the legs when mark06 is in the moon
edit: i mean.. why not? the moon could be a white/black moon where this Adam resides..

But we see Mark.06's mask, which is the same than the Giant on the Moon, here it is when dig up on the Moon :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva1-01 C1680 moon-giant.jpg[/wkimg]

The script and storyboard explains that the "white skin" is actually a sort of rubber suit used to protect it.

And here it is in 2.0, while being armored :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C0303 crop-edit.jpg[/wkimg]

The rubber suit is removed, notices that the head is at the exact same position than the giant in 1.0, and the ancient mask similar, something that would be useless to reproduce if it was clones from ADAM, or even made from a piece of it.

Also, SEELE explicitly stated that they planed to make Mark.06 a "true god" so he could guide mankind through Instrumentality (ie that they will awake it and use it to trigger Third Impact), and the Evangelion they use in 3.0 to try to finally launch the HIP is revealed to be one of the four ADAMs, so that clearly imply that Mark.06 was an ADAM too, the giant we see on the Moon.


View Original PostCorpex wrote:mark09 could be perfectly a adam´s soul vessel (same as kaworu or Rei) but instead of one human its one eva...

Maybe, we don't know enough about that freak to have a clear answer, as with many things in 3.0.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Corpex » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:59 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Even Kaworu identified her as Lilith in 3.0, when she was long dead and there wasn't any reason to potentially lie, and Kaworu is an Angel, he can feel if a SoL is ADAM or Lilith. So the marshmallow on the cross was Lilith.
She was probably presented as such since the beginning to streamline the plot, same thing that with the mother soul necessary to pilot an Eva that disappeared in Rebuild. As for the mask, it's obviously to make us endlessly speculate of course! :D


Yes, everybody called it lilith, but in my speculating and crazy opinion: lilith is lillith but she is also one of the 4 adams.

Now lets compare :
--
My point of view about for example the end of 2.0 (N3I)

EVA01 is one of 4 ADAMS and it was built from another Adam´s body (Lilith)

N3I:
EVA01 (lilith "cloned" body) + Rei Soul (lilith soul) + angel (trigger) = Impact

--

Your point of view:

EVA01 is one of the ADAMs but it doesnt comes from Lilith (because lilith cannot be one of the 4 Adams)

2.0
EVA01 (adam body) + Rei soul (lilith soul) + angel (trigger) = Impact

--

I see more sense in my version because lilith body + lilith soul will convert EVA01 into a "Completed Lilith", otherwise there would have incompatibilities.


Also, if EVA01 is one of the Adams and it doesnt comes from Lilith, no Lilith bodys exists now (because the only pure lilith body was destroyed in N4I). There should exists at least one Lilith´s body to allow the HIP.

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Except that there's a distinction made in NGE, and by proxy in Rebuild : all the units except 01 were cloned from ADAM, meaning that its DNA was used to grow a body from scratch, which will be used as an Evangelion.
01 was created from a separated piece of flesh from Lilith and "molded" into the humanoid shape of Shogouki.
The important point is that the other Evas were mere copies of the original, and thus less powerful, while 01 was made of Lilith's flesh, making it "pure" and more powerful.


Yes, you are right here, but i dont see the problem. I should have specified more correctly the term "clone" or "made from" but like you English is not my mother language :lol:
-EVA01 and Mark06 are made from original Adams (lilith and moon-adam 3). They are "pure"
-EVA00, 02, etc, etc are clones of Adam 1 (nebuchadnezzar key). They are not "pure"

No problem with that, i will change it in the speculation theory


View Original PostElMariachi wrote:But we see Mark.06's mask, which is the same than the Giant on the Moon, here it is when dig up on the Moon :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva1-01 C1680 moon-giant.jpg[/wkimg]

The script and storyboard explains that the "white skin" is actually a sort of rubber suit used to protect it.

And here it is in 2.0, while being armored :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C0303 crop-edit.jpg[/wkimg]

The rubber suit is removed, notices that the head is at the exact same position than the giant in 1.0, and the ancient mask similar, something that would be useless to reproduce if it was clones from ADAM, or even made from a piece of it.



Yes, both images correspond to Mark06. The "white skin" body is Mark06 too.
The supossed Adam-3 should be buried just in front of the mark06, maybe attached by their legs.

I don´t know maybe you are right and mark 06 is the only one Adam.
The need for a moon-Adam-3 comes from the conviction that the only way to stop one Adam is to use a Spear. I said "stop" because i think there´s no way to kill Adams (unless there is another adam´s body like EVA01-Lilith). If an Adam could die the objective of the spears wouldn´t have much sense

so if Adams cannot die, only be stopped by spears, mark06 (who is dead) can not be one adam.

However if I´m wrong in that thought maybe there´s no need of one superior Adam, so i would change that in my speculation theory xD

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:58 pm

View Original PostCorpex wrote:Yes, everybody called it lilith, but in my speculating and crazy opinion: lilith is lillith but she is also one of the 4 adams.

But Lilith didn't moved from her Black Moon, so she couldn't had been in the Antarctic.

And I too think that EVA-01 was made from Lilih's body, like it was in NGE : it can deploy an AT-Field (unlike an ADAM) and is far stronger than a regular Evangelion.


View Original PostCorpex wrote:Yes, both images correspond to Mark06. The "white skin" body is Mark06 too.
The supossed Adam-3 should be buried just in front of the mark06, maybe attached by their legs.

I don´t know maybe you are right and mark 06 is the only one Adam.
The need for a moon-Adam-3 comes from the conviction that the only way to stop one Adam is to use a Spear. I said "stop" because i think there´s no way to kill Adams (unless there is another adam´s body like EVA01-Lilith). If an Adam could die the objective of the spears wouldn´t have much sense

so if Adams cannot die, only be stopped by spears, mark06 (who is dead) can not be one adam.

However if I´m wrong in that thought maybe there´s no need of one superior Adam, so i would change that in my speculation theory xD

A Seed of Life can certainly be destroyed, after Lilith was destroyed in 3.0, so Mark.06 being an ADAM wouldn't be incompatible with the fact it's dead.

Also the spear's function is to stop Seeds of Life and awakened Evangelions, not to kill them, it only kill regular Angels because they are "inferior beings" compared to ADAM.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:58 am

If already debated, point it out.

Real quick question, has anyone implied that the ADAMS were created by Humanity in a time immemorial, a time during SEELE's pre-monolith existence?

I speculate this solely because the HIP or transcendence that SEELE is hoping to come fruition has been proven with four examples of this found in Antarctica, only to be abandoned and frozen in time due to unforseen consequences.
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:43 am

Well, Antartica is a frozen wasteland since ~23 millions of years, well before any human civilization, or even mankind as a specie (Homo Sapiens Sapiens), so unless we go the oute of the ancient super-advanced civilization that existed before humanity, it's unlikely that they were created by a native specie.

Also, Second Impact with the four ADAMs wasn't a botched attempt at HIP by SEELE, that was the fist step in their covenant with Lilith : they were to awake the Angels to destroy them all so Lilith could be safely resurrected. On that respect Second Impact was a complete success in their plans.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Sat May 03, 2014 3:15 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Well, Antartica is a frozen wasteland since ~23 millions of years, well before any human civilization, or even mankind as a specie (Homo Sapiens Sapiens), so unless we go the oute of the ancient super-advanced civilization that existed before humanity, it's unlikely that they were created by a native specie.

Also, Second Impact with the four ADAMs wasn't a botched attempt at HIP by SEELE, that was the fist step in their covenant with Lilith : they were to awake the Angels to destroy them all so Lilith could be safely resurrected. On that respect Second Impact was a complete success in their plans.


Firstly, I didn't necessarily say the ADAM's were created before Antarctica had taken form, only that they were placed there. Secondly, the staggeringly small amount of time to create clones of the ADAMS or EVAs shortly after 2nd Impact lead me to deduce someone or something had profound knowledge of Angel or EVA tech before Project had begun and simply passed on the knowledge to speed up the project.

Also, ADAMS are not Angels nor Humans and so far, are not classed as any type of known sentient life form. SO what are they, a hybrid or simply energy beings evolved from a previous form?
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 03, 2014 5:08 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Firstly, I didn't necessarily say the ADAM's were created before Antarctica had taken form, only that they were placed there. Secondly, the staggeringly small amount of time to create clones of the ADAMS or EVAs shortly after 2nd Impact lead me to deduce someone or something had profound knowledge of Angel or EVA tech before Project had begun and simply passed on the knowledge to speed up the project.

No need to go very far for that : SEELE are the ones with knowledge of Angels and Eva tech, they are around for millenia thanks to transfering their souls in monoliths of what looks like core material (clearly an use of FAR technology here) and have the SDSS that guided their scenario and gave them a lot of info. We never got to know what exactly those scroll contains, but it was enough to let SEELE do crazy shit like converting an ADAM into a controllable Evangelion, so they clearly know their stuff.

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Also, ADAMS are not Angels nor Humans and so far, are not classed as any type of known sentient life form. SO what are they, a hybrid or simply energy beings evolved from a previous form?

Humans are classified as Lilith's offspring, Misato said it when she brought Shinji to see her in 1.0 : "This is the 2nd Angel and the origin of life in this planet, Lilith". Also humans are called Lilins in 3.0, reinforcing the connection.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun May 25, 2014 4:09 am

SPOILER: Show
Image
+
Image
=
Image


If that was "Adam" from EoE then where were the other three from?

My best guess is repeats that were similar to Proposal, Manga, and Anima, considering the references we get to them in Rebuild.

Or they can be Ascended Unit 01's since it is a clone after all.


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