The Spears

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby wiser3754 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:42 am

If speculated or debated, please reply or let it be.

Looking at EVA-13 and the MP EVAs in EOE when they pierce their chest's or torso's their hands gripping the Lances as they penetrate are hand over hand. Yet the Mark.06's hands are parted as the Lance holds it in place.

I ask, was it trying to pierce itself or was it trying to pull it out only to be frozen with Lilith as the Lance behind it was penetrated into her back by an unknown perpetrator (my theory, Unit-01). Because, the two acts of penetration shown by EVA-13 and the MP EVA's in EOE in comparison to the Mark.06 by their hand placement is something I can't overlook.
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:56 am

^
There was a conversation about it somewhere else some time ago between me and Bagheera, and the positions of Mark.06's hands on the spears are those of someone trying to pull it out, not impaling itself, the hand gripping the spears would be hand over hand as you said, and the Eva would be bending forward, like the Harpies in EoE or EVA-13 when it impaled itself at the end of of 3.0.

So the more probably is that Mark.06 was trying to do its thing with Lilith (or maybe that was the 12th Angel possessing Mark.06) and it was stopped by someone else using a spear to impale, who did it remains a mystery.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:15 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
There was a conversation about it somewhere else some time ago between me and Bagheera, and the positions of Mark.06's hands on the spears are those of someone trying to pull it out, not impaling itself, the hand gripping the spears would be hand over hand as you said, and the Eva would be bending forward, like the Harpies in EoE or EVA-13 when it impaled itself at the end of of 3.0.

So the more probably is that Mark.06 was trying to do its thing with Lilith (or maybe that was the 12th Angel possessing Mark.06) and it was stopped by someone else using a spear to impale, who did it remains a mystery.


But the community is in agreement that the Mark.06 wasn't trying to impale itself? Can you at least agree to that? If that's the case, then the Third Impact was not halted by the Mark.06, if Lilith is still considered to be a trigger or was in fact an attempt to awaken her by using the 12th Angel and the Lance or Spear/s as a supplement.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:25 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:But the community is in agreement that the Mark.06 wasn't trying to impale itself? Can you at least agree to that? If that's the case, then the Third Impact was not halted by the Mark.06, if Lilith is still considered to be a trigger or was in fact an attempt to awaken her by using the 12th Angel and the Lance or Spear/s as a supplement.


There is no agreement because we don't have enough information. Virtually anything could have happened there and we'll just have to wait for FINAL to get the details.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:33 am

^
Still, we can agree that due to Mark.06's hand positions, it wasn't impaling itself, but rather trying to remove the spear.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:57 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Still, we can agree that due to Mark.06's hand positions, it wasn't impaling itself, but rather trying to remove the spear.


Not to sound cliché or repetitive, but if my theory is that Unit-01 was the perpetrator, to me it's a pure case of poetic justice.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:14 am

Well, that would had been poetic justice if Kaworu was inside Mark.06 when it was impaled! :tongue:
But if it was really Unit 01 who did it, and seeing that Shinji doesn't remember anything after saving Rei, would that mean that its Yui herself who did?
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:25 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:^
Still, we can agree that due to Mark.06's hand positions, it wasn't impaling itself, but rather trying to remove the spear.


Not really, since I still don't see how hand position has any bearing on the matter.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:48 am

Oh, yeah, silly me!
I meant the position of the arms, they are outstretched, which is not a position of someone impaling itself, but rather trying to pull something out.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:55 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Oh, yeah, silly me!
I meant the position of the arms, they are outstretched, which is not a position of someone impaling itself, but rather trying to pull something out.


That would rather depend on where he is in the process, though. If it was reaching up to pull the Spear further in its arms would be in the exact same position. All the evidence we have on the matter can be read either way.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:24 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Well, that would had been poetic justice if Kaworu was inside Mark.06 when it was impaled! :tongue:
But if it was really Unit 01 who did it, and seeing that Shinji doesn't remember anything after saving Rei, would that mean that its Yui herself who did?


That is interesting. Seeing as Shinji usually seems to blackout during Yui's little rampages (such as defeating Sachiel) maybe after the Spear of Cassius was removed Yui woke up and managed to get all the way down to Central Dogma to complete Third Impact and spear the Mark.06? We know that she's at least awake enough to use her eye-blasts at the start of 3.0, so it's possible that Eva-01 returned to an Awakened state under Yui's control post-2.0 during or prior to Mark.06's descent to Dogma.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:38 am

Except it's implied that it was Shinji who unconsciously briefly awoke EVA-01 to save Asuka in 3.0.
Also I have an hard time seeing EVA-01 as being the one who intervened, so far everytime it had gone berserk, it was in an animalistic state, rampaging it's enemy like and enraged beast, grabbing a spear and descending through the main shaft to go impale Mark.06 seems to "sophisticate" for a berserk unit.

I find it more probable that it was simply another unit sent down there to stop Mark.06, like a repaired EVA-02, or a completed EVA-08.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby wiser3754 » Sat May 03, 2014 3:32 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Except it's implied that it was Shinji who unconsciously briefly awoke EVA-01 to save Asuka in 3.0.
Also I have an hard time seeing EVA-01 as being the one who intervened, so far everytime it had gone berserk, it was in an animalistic state, rampaging it's enemy like and enraged beast, grabbing a spear and descending through the main shaft to go impale Mark.06 seems to "sophisticate" for a berserk unit.

I find it more probable that it was simply another unit sent down there to stop Mark.06, like a repaired EVA-02, or a completed EVA-08.


Impaling the Mark.06 was too sophisticated? Look at Lilith, she's been torn apart by what looks like a savage beast. Also, in the sortie against the 4th Angel, a berserk Unit-01 uses ribs from the Angel itself and attempts to 'stab' at the core of it.
I watch and speculate.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 03, 2014 5:16 am

^
Yes, and having the presence of spirit to grab the spear in anticipation of a fight before descending through the main shaft is far more sophisticated than EVA-01 in berserk mode ever was, which was simply "seeing a target, charging it, and take anything that's at hand to tab harder".
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby airman4 » Sat May 03, 2014 7:05 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Oh, yeah, silly me!
I meant the position of the arms, they are outstretched, which is not a position of someone impaling itself, but rather trying to pull something out.


It have probably said already then apologies but

This sequence reminds me the one where eva 00 in NGE retrieve the Longinus lance from Lilith
It was probably the NME version of it somehow ?

My guess is that gendo probably used another pilot or A control system (red eye like ?) to do that
After that he filled up of lies to Kaworu about the power of those lances and recovering world and then Kaworu told that to Shinji.

The thing we saw in 3.33 was the second and successful attempt of a Nerv/Seele Mission

In conclusion
Lilith NME retrieving lances is different from NGE ,also probably because she have two Lances (why ? who did this ??? )


Edit
Also i'll add that Shinji wasn't an idiot to retrieve those lances, he was just Delusionnal , Kaworu somehow was but he is more mature than Shinji so he guessed fast how bad the situation would be if eva 13 make it out with the Lances.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat May 03, 2014 7:21 pm

Kaworu seems to already know everything about the Angels and spears and whatnot related technologies, due to the fact that he's an Angel. Also, he seems to know that Gendo isn't trustworthy at all, so I really doubt that he would make up a plan solely based on informations given by Gendo.

I think that the only thing he did was whatever he did to transform the LoC into a LoL : Kaworu explicitly states that the spear morphed into the other type, meaning that the spear impaling Mark.06 is the same one that it used to impale EVA-01 14 years ago, and somehow had a morphing option, and either Gendo triggered it being Kaworu and SEELE's back, or he knew that the LoC morphed (or would morph) and didn't informed the others.


As for why Lilith was pierced by two spears, as many things in Q we don't have enough information to give a sure answer, but if I had to take a guess, the spear on Lilith's torso is the same one that was impaling her when she was still on the cross, but when the 12th Angel fused with her it wasn't enough to suppress her powers and she awake and wreaked havoc (probably under the 12th Angel influence), requiring the use of a second spear on Mark.06 to paralyze the Angel still inside it and stop whatever process it started with Lilith.
Then at some moment, for some reason, the LoC impaling Mark.06 morphed into a LoL.


Shinji was a very dangerous combination of delusional, desperate, half-insane, sleep deprived and naturally stubborn when things go haywire. Most of these factors can be traced back to Gendo manipulating the events from the shadows, but Shinji does have a part of responsibility in it, those are attenuating circumstances at best, not excuses.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby airman4 » Sun May 04, 2014 7:11 am

Thanks very much
For the Lilith empaling i'd love to see who did this , i hope they will show that somehow !

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon May 05, 2014 4:47 am

^
If FINAL has a flash-back about the events surrounding the 12th Angel, and there will surely be one since it relates to what's Shinji responsibility in the current state of the world, it'll surely be revealed.

My bet is on either one of the missing Evas, like an Unit 07 piloted by Toji to replace Shinji's disappearance, with maybe the support of Mari in her recently finished Unit 08, maybe add Asuka with her recently repaired EVA-02 for an awesome trio fight.

Or maybe in a spin-off detailing the events of the time skip and the founding of WILLE, there's so much people asking to know more about it that I'm sure that Khara won't pass up the chance to cash in some more money, especially if that mean to finally see Units 07 and 10 to 12 to be sold as figurines for even more cash!
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri May 23, 2014 9:27 pm

Has anyone speculated that The Cassius Spear is made out of something different than the Longinus one?

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Postby airman4 » Sat May 24, 2014 5:04 am

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Has anyone speculated that The Cassius Spear is made out of something different than the Longinus one?


Both were probably created in the same place (by F.A.R)
So there are the same in nature just different because one belong to the Black moon and other white one (i think)


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