Is Rebuild easier to understand for newbies? (case study)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment is scheduled to debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

SEELE-01
Pilot Candidate
Pilot Candidate
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1889
Joined: Dec 30, 2009
Location: Guess...
Gender: Male
Contact:

Is Rebuild easier to understand for newbies? (case study)

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SEELE-01 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:03 am

Well, I went today to see all 3 Rebuild movies in cinema :D
Besides being happy for seen my favorite thing in the world on the big screen, I was happy 'cuz my boyfriend came along :tongue:
And more importantly, he is (was) completely new to Evangelion, so now, he we have an analysis of his responses and understanding of the movie series!
I use emoticons for his expressions and square brackets for things I explained along the way (which were mostly restricted to the in-betweens)
Let us begin: All 3 movies, Japanese/subtitles, Blu-ray version (even Q's)

Evangelion 1.0
(we entered late, started watching just after Misato picks up Shinji)
:cringe: Sachi not being destroyed in the N2 explosion...
:irked: Gendo and Shinji's relationship
:cringe: Berserk Eva 01 [I defined berserk as out of control from pilot or crew]
:lol: Misato's apartment and well, all scenes there...
:| throughout the second act of the movie up to the apparition of Ramiel where it goes to :huh:
:huh: Lilith in the basement
:cringe: on Operation Yashima
:| Kaworu on the Moon
[I explained between films that pilots control Evas with the mind and that they need to protect Lilith from the angels so that they don't cause 3rd Impact, emphasis on the evilness on impacts]

Evangelion 2.0
:huh: Eva 05 battle scene, everything's pretty jammed, so I don't blame him there...
:w00t: Asuka and Eva 02
:lol: :lol: Asuka in Misato's apartment/Kaji+Misato interaction/Kaji+Shinji yaoi scene
:w00t: :w00t: Sahaquiel battle
:| Cryptic SEELE-Gendo talk
[explained in detail the Vatican treaty. the subs weren't very clear about it)
^_^ Asuka taking the pilot post on the test activation of Eva 03 (he found cute all those scenes of Rei's dinner and her attempt to bring Shinji and Gendo together) [if he'd only knew :facepalm:]
:huh: Something fishy about that Eva 03
:scared: Angel reveals itself
:boohoo: Asuka crushed in the Entry Plug (is she alive? tell me she is alive! :boohoo:)
:sniffle: Asuka in the coffin, Misato letting Shinji go
:huh: Zeruel appears
:cringe: battle scene
:derp: Zeruel in the control post
:cringe: God Eva 01
:| Eva 01 impaled
(I covered his eyes at the very last of the Q trailer so that he missed Asuka until the next film :devil:)
[explained impact mechanics as able to "bend" reality to the controller's wish and that Shinji's wish was to save Rei]

Evangelion Q
:stars: :XP: :shrug:
:lol: to Kaworu's gay-ish attitudes (specially the way he sits in the bed :tongue: )
:huh: To Mari's "the original was more friendly" (who's the original, the first Rei of Yui!?)
:huh: :crazytwirl: :dizzy: :deadhead:
Yup... He got lost completely on Q

But well, let's analyze now: he went pretty good until 2.0, with minimal explanations and praising the phase for not being boring at any point, he did missed some visual cues, but those are not easily noticeable at first glance (like the parallels between Rei and Mari on the school roof in 1.0 and 2.0; Shinji crawling to action going for worse across films or the motif of stigmatized Shinji)

He, however, did understood almost fully one of the most important metaphors in Evangelion, the SDAT player: he mentioned "does he only have 2 songs or what?" in 1.0; he noticed the change to the 27th track and interpreted it as moving forward in 2.0 and it being broken in Q as a sing of his inability to help anyone...

Besides that, it does appear to be easier on new people, he missed a few thing mainly 'cuz he had to read the subtitles and go back to the screen in shot time (and we really know how a second of film contains many things)

Anyways, comments? Questions?
Visit my Eva-figures blog, Youtube channel and Twitter

Giji Shinka
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 2728
Joined: Jan 26, 2013
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:21 am

^Expected reactions. :tongue:

Also, you have to explain stuff about 3.0 (And the whole point of the film too) to him if you haven't done that already.

We don't need more Q haters.
Avatar: "Anime-lehti" logo

tzigi
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 48
Joined: May 27, 2013
Location: Litzmannstadt
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby tzigi » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:15 am

I like the reactions. I'm actually planning on doing something more or less similar (or maybe not that much) with my husband when 4.0 is out. It's me in out household who watches/reads almost everything first so I mostly chose stuff for him to watch/read. He already has watched NGE with me once and we're now watching it for the second time (second for him - I couldn't for the love of my life count the time it's for me). Then, when the 14th volume of the manga will be finally published (not as chapters but as a real, physical book), I'll give him the whole set to read. And then 4.0. And I wonder what his reactions will be. Stay tuned - in several years you'll know :P
Quidquid agis, prudenter agas.

Kendrix
Defender of Puppy Boy
Defender of Puppy Boy
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 5589
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: Germany
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kendrix » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:40 am

I like your reaction descriptions, especially that little Asuka-related emotional torque in progress XD


The "more acessible HQ remake" idea pretty much died after 1.11 got so much positive feedback, and Anno went, "Meh. Let's make some more art."

You can see this early on with them dropping the "what is actually in central Dogma" subplot, but from 2.0 upwards, it just gets replaced by new confusing stuff.


2.0 is still easily digestible for an attentive enough newcommer, but it's pretty full of fast stuff happening directly after another, and does require an eye for Detail to fully appreciate the characters. And 3.0 is confusing as fuck even to an old schooler.


I guess what does speak for Rebuild as an introduction medium is simply its lenght - it's shorter and doesn't require a huge commitment to sit through 26 episodes and a 90 min movie.
Of course by the time you reach Q, you'll be completely hooked and watch the original if only for a remote chance of a better understanding.

And just when they see Zeruel NOT resulting in NTI and think their beloved characters (sans Mari) have a chance... they experience the same frustration and despair as us, just in reverse?
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...
Todo list:
- Essay on the character's roles in each others introspec sequences
- Good faith Analysis of Mari
- Finish ep 8 commentary

SEELE-01
Pilot Candidate
Pilot Candidate
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1889
Joined: Dec 30, 2009
Location: Guess...
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SEELE-01 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:18 am

Yup... After Q I introduced him to the more elaborated aspects of the series and the fact that nobody really knows what da heck went on between 2.0 and Q (though I mentioned the leading theory)
I told him about seeds of life, what Seele wants, what Gendo wants (all NGE, telling him that it may not be the same again) and how the movie is designed to put him in Shinji's shoes...
Nevertheless he kept saying that it was very interesting and that how so many tiny details get your brains to cook ;)
He even asked about Final... Had to explain the sad schedule this films have had :facepalm:
Visit my Eva-figures blog, Youtube channel and Twitter

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 7032
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:50 am

It's both easier and more difficult to understand, but for different reasons :

On one hand, the explanations in Rebuild are very straightforward, opposed to the avalanche of religious metaphors in NGE : in Rebuild they tell you excplicitely that the giant in Central Dogma is an Angel called Lilith, that she's the creator of mankind and that if an Angel reaches her Third Impact happens and everyone dies, they also show you what an Impacts looks likes and the different phases, so when EVA-01 or EVA-13 opens the vortex you immediately know that an Impact just started, Fuyutsuki plainly explains that Rei is a clone of Yui and that the latter controls EVA-01 since the Contact Experiment where she disappeared, there isn't any weird metaphor that "mankind found a God and tried to copy it in their foolishness" and all that mambo-jumbo.

Bit on the other hand, there are many things that will confuse people who didn't saw the original series, in the first two movies it was mostly little references to the original series like the altered elevator scene, the blood streak on the Moon, Kaworu talking as if he already lived through the whole story... but in Q it concerns more important informations : for example, if you didn't saw the original series and missed the mention to the ADAMs in the preview for 2.0, then the mention of an "ADAMs' Vessel" and "surviving ADAM" won't ring any bells.

I think that at first what Anno meant when he said that Rebuild would be Evangelion but more accessible is that the information given to the audience is straightforward, not that we'll understand everything that happens or is mentioned.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:41 pm

It depends what you think there is in Eva to be understood. In terms on explaining the events that underlie its plot, I think NGE was way more straightforward - we still have almost zero insight from any character in the films as to a HUGE number of plot events, let alone backstory - for example we get that everyone in Q hates Shinji for what he did at the end of 2.22, but we still don't have any diegetic insight into what he did - all that was left for the otaku to wrangle. Compare to NGE where they practically can't shut up about Adam etc. to the point where characters actively get the backstory "wrong" because Anno didn't plan it out beforehand. I think Anno wanted to avoid this happening with NME and let the chips fall where they might, with the result that a lot of (pretty alarming) stuff in NME just kind of happens with minimal or no in-film commentary, and everyone watching the movie just kind of rolls with it and contrives rationalizations for it themselves on their own time.

As to whether the plot itself has been simplified - not really, it is even more slapped-together goofy mess of abstruse sci-fi kabbalah shit than that of NGE, with Anno very much going for whatever seems good and putting expected level of elbow grease into making it cool and memorable. Shinji and Kaworu piloting a four-armed Evabuster to tune the world? sure why not: reasons for its existence can be made up later, and even if Anno himself never gets to it, nerds will, because they're nerds.
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 7032
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:06 pm

^
Well take in account that there's still one movie left, a lot of information can be crammed in it, remember that most of the backstory behind ADAM and Lilith in NGE was literally dropped by a quick infodump from Misato in EoE!

As for EVA-13, its existence is one of the few things that was completely explained : it's one of the four ADAMs, and has a dual-system to wield the two spears at the same time.

I would say that while there are a lot of thing that aren't explained (yet), especially in Q, what does get an explanation have a very straightforward one : Lilith is the 2nd Angel and mankind's progenitor(by Misato in 1.0), Rei is a clone of Yui and the later is the one controlling EVA-01(by Fuyutsuki in 3.0)
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

SEELE-01
Pilot Candidate
Pilot Candidate
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1889
Joined: Dec 30, 2009
Location: Guess...
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SEELE-01 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:11 am

The transformation is complete!!
He told me he had this weird dream where he was in an Eva battle along Asuka!
Visit my Eva-figures blog, Youtube channel and Twitter

robersora
Laissez-faire in Moderation
Laissez-faire in Moderation
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 4435
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: Europe, Austria
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby robersora » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:58 am

This was a very great read. You should do that with the series too!
Also, I'm so very happy for you that you've apparently found the right one. I wish both of you the best. Also, this gives me hope for my future too.
2Q||3.33 _ 神殺しを行う
Decadent Stoned Slacker Socialist

SEELE-01
Pilot Candidate
Pilot Candidate
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1889
Joined: Dec 30, 2009
Location: Guess...
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SEELE-01 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:23 am

View Original Postrobersora wrote:This was a very great read. You should do that with the series too!

Nah, only if he asks to see it... I won't force him to watch it :P

View Original Postrobersora wrote:Also, I'm so very happy for you that you've apparently found the right one. I wish both of you the best. Also, this gives me hope for my future too.

Thanks, keep looking ;)
Visit my Eva-figures blog, Youtube channel and Twitter


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest