Making a separate thread for this.

pwhodges wrote:An uncalled-for thought has just arrived - what if the reason for the dual plug system in Eva-13 is that it has no resident soul, so that's a way to get two souls in there for operation.

It's an interesting question, particularly considering that it hasn't occurred to us before.

I was under the impression that Eva-13 was one of the Adams, and thus didn't need a dominant soul...

What evidence is there that any Evangelion actually needs a resident soul in this version? Even the AT Field could be just the pilot's. And that's assuming that AT Fields in Rebuild are even the same phenomenon (a projection of the soul) as the same of NGE.

Yui is explicitly confirmed to be in Eva-01 as the control system. Not the resident soul, but the control system. So an Eva probably doesn't need a resident soul at all, it just needs a core that's configured to suit its pilot.

There is also a shot of them replacing the core of Unit 02 while Mari is changing into her new plugsuit in 2.22, suggesting that one core was Asuka's, and the new one is suited for Mari..

None the less, I'd like to find some decent kind of reason for the dual system, as it seems to me to be the most contrived aspect of the whole NME scenario, and thus somewhat unsatisfying.

Honestly it could just be for ease of operation. One pilot to move the Eva while the other controls the drone weapons. Shinji even implies he's having trouble with Asuka because Kaworu wasn't assisting in combat.

weeminator24 wrote:There is also a shot of them replacing the core of Unit 02 while Mari is changing into her new plugsuit in 2.22, suggesting that one core was Asuka's, and the new one is suited for Mari..

The dialog talked about reconfiguring the core for Mari, the core used is the exact same than when Asuka pilots(you can even see it in an armored round container suspended above EVA-02 when it's being put in the IPEA vault), only the settings are changed.

pwhodges wrote:None the less, I'd like to find some decent kind of reason for the dual system, as it seems to me to be the most contrived aspect of the whole NME scenario, and thus somewhat unsatisfying.

It had two purposes :

1/ breaking the seal to Lilith's Chamber, as apparently two pilot synchronizing in the same Eva produce an AT Field(or anti-AT field, it's not clear) strong enough to break it.
Although then that raise the question of how Mari and Asuka could already be there waiting in ambush, maybe there are other entrances that opened during the passing 14 years due to damages, but EVA-13 took the elevator because it was more confy and it could open the seal, who knows...

2/ more importantly, to use the two spears to do whatever the hell Kaworu planned to do with the LoL + LoC. He explicitly said that two souls are needed to wield two spears, implying that a spear needs a soul to activate it's capacities, but that one soul can only active one spear at a time. So to use the two spears at the same time, a dual-sytem Evangelion was needed.

If Evangelions in NTE do in fact still need a soul to operate, then it is a likely explanation, or at least another purpose for the double entry system.

Making a few assumptions, that Unit-13 was made from Adam, or is one of the Adams, and that Kaworu still presents the same ability to synch with any Evangelion made from Adam, it's reasonable to believe that he acted as the resident soul in this instance, to give the Evangelion life, so to speak.

pwhodges wrote:None the less, I'd like to find some decent kind of reason for the dual system, as it seems to me to be the most contrived aspect of the whole NME scenario, and thus somewhat unsatisfying.

The dual core system is needed to manipulate the two different creation engines needed to actualize the Adams' full potential as progenitor entities. The two sets of arms are visual elements of this system, but only in an incidental sense; they're mainly there to hold and manipulate the actual instruments of creation (the Spears) and as such are largely a matter of convenience. Since the different engines use different control systems a binary approach is needed to keep them under control, hence the dual core system.

Sorry if that explanation is a bit smelly, I just pulled it out of my ass whole cloth. But c'mon, two Spears, Kaworu's impression that they could remake the world, it makes sense.

And Ursus is right: resident souls have not been mentioned in the NTE even once. Yui is Unit 01's control system, but we still aren't clear on whether or not her soul is in Unit 01. Same with Poka-Rei. If not for Kaworu's comment re: ReiQ we might not even have reason to believe souls exist in the NTE.

Bagheera wrote:Yui is Unit 01's control system, but we still aren't clear on whether or not her soul is in Unit 01. Same with Poka-Rei.

Fuyu says that Yui and Rei are in Eva-01. Whether one uses the word "soul" or not is probably unimportant at that point, because what else would define their identity in the absence of their original bodies? Yui may not be a "resident soul" in the NGE sense; but again, what does her identity (soul or whatever) being a "control system" really mean? Is it necessarily any different, or has the wording just been changed for the movies to make them more accessible, while the concepts stay basically the same?

I believe that the terms "resident soul" and "control system" mean the same thing. It's obvious that the Evangelions still require a soul in some sense of the word in order to operate, without a soul, the Eva's are just empty vessels.

Now, who's soul is required to operate an Eva is a little more liberal in NTE, what with the notion of it having to be the pilot's mother tossed out the window

Stratomeister wrote:I believe that the terms "resident soul" and "control system" mean the same thing. It's obvious that the Evangelions still require a soul in some sense of the word in order to operate, without a soul, the Eva's are just empty vessels.

I don't see how that's obvious at all. Why can't they just be giant cyborgs operated like any other robot? And why change the term to begin with if it's supposed to be the same thing?

They definitely tossed the resident soul thing in Rebuild. If there are resident souls, either Asuka didn't need to have a relationship to the one in Bardiel OR Kyoko's soul is dead and somebody else is in Unit 02. The core in Mari's original Eva was also destroyed- everything points to all the other Evas being mere machines while Unit 01 is unique this time around.

Of course, as we all know very well, there is no Kyoko because Asuka and Mari are also clones.

Okay, I'll admit that my use of the word "obvious" was pretty hyperbolic, but why else would Yui be trapped inside Unit-01 unless her soul was still require in order for the Evangelion to be functional?

It was also shown the preview to 3.0 that Unit-08 was "brought to life", and in what sense could that be used if it didn't mean being given a soul of it's own?

If there are resident souls, either Asuka didn't need to have a relationship to the one in Bardiel OR Kyoko's soul is dead and somebody else is in Unit 02

Yeah, there's been no evidence in NTE to support the claim that the resident soul has to the the pilots mother. While I do believe there must be a soul present in the Eva in order for it to operate, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that of the pilot's mother, or even a human soul for that matter.

Stratomeister wrote:Okay, I'll admit that my use of the word "obvious" was pretty hyperbolic, but why else would Yui be trapped inside Unit-01 unless her soul was still require in order for the Evangelion to be functional?

It was also shown the preview to 3.0 that Unit-8 was "brought to life", and in what sense could that be used if it didn't mean being given a soul of it's own?


Yeah, there's been no evidence in NTE to support the claim that the resident soul has to the the pilots mother. While I do believe there must be a soul present in the Eva in order for it to operate, that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that of the pilot's mother, or even a human soul for that matter.

If the resident soul doesn't have to be the pilot's mother, what's the point of having them at all, and if there's no relationship between the pilot and the soul, what indication is there that they exist? It wasn't just thrown into NGE, it's there for a narrative and thematic purpose.

Rebuild stripped a lot of stuff out for streamlining. It appears to ignore the resident soul concept for the sake of convenience to the action, so we can safely assume that it probably doesn't apply.

All Yui's presence in Unit-01 appears to enhance it, rather than being strictly necessary for operations. The Evas in Rebuild are just cool machines.

Bagheera wrote:I don't see how that's obvious at all. Why can't they just be giant cyborgs operated like any other robot? And why change the term to begin with if it's supposed to be the same thing?

Because they aren't just giant cyborgs - they (or, at least Unit-01 in NTE) are "artificial humans" and created from the genes/body of Adam/Lilith. This isn't Gundam, the EVAs are much more living-creatures-restrained than metal machines.

It's obvious (used in proper context this time) that the relationship between pilot and Evangelion is not the same as it was in NGE, the only direct confirmation that we have regarding the presence of a soul is that of Yui's in Unit-01. However, both Unit-01 and Unit-00 still exhibit strange behaviour, the likes of which were seen in NGE.

Unit-01 goes berserk while fighting Sachiel, and Unit-00 loses control during the activation test. During both of these instances, the pilot was not in command of their Evangelion.

Now, I'm not one to say that Unit-01 isn't a special case, and that it being the only mother-son connection confirmation we have, the behaviour could be attributed to that, but what about Unit-00? If it didn't have a resident soul of some sort, what caused it to go out of control during the activation test?

As a side note that should probably not be taken too seriously, if the Evangelions no longer contain the soul of the pilot's mother, then why do we still need 14 year old children manning these death machines?

^
Evas are savage beasts : leave them unrestrained and they'll go in a rampage. Maybe they are their own soul, maybe they don't but in Rebuild not having one doesn't prevent you from existing(after all we didn't got the confirmation that AT Fields are projections of the soul, and Rei Q is suspected to lack one), or maybe the Evas develop their own soul while growing(which would imply that Rei Q developed one too during her creation)
Fuyutsuki's revelation that Rei is preserved alongside Yui inside EVA-01 imply that their soul are still inside. Maybe him calling Yui the "Control System" refers to how she can take control of the Eva when going berserk, although we don't know if she overwrote the resident Eva soul, merged with it, "lives" alongside it or if there weren't any soul to begin with and Yui became the first and only Evangelion with a soul.

But I don't think that EVA-13 had a soul or that Kaworu acted as the remote soul for it either : Mark.06 is all but stated to be one of the four ADAMs, and it was supposed to have been modified into an autonomous unit, meaning without Kaworu in it.
Also, wasn't the Dummy System supposed to be installed in all the Evangelions in Rebuild too?

Chroma wrote:Because they aren't just giant cyborgs - they (or, at least Unit-01 in NTE) are "artificial humans" and created from the genes/body of Adam/Lilith. This isn't Gundam, the EVAs are much more living-creatures-restrained than metal machines.

Actually, we don't know that this time around. We have no idea how they were made or how they work. That's the point!