What anime are you watching right now? Nov 2013

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Postby Fireball » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:02 pm

View Original PostSquigsquasher wrote:Well, I watched the first Ghost in the Shell movie. I have so many questions, but the most pressing is "Why are there so many goddamn Basset Hounds?".

There is one little scene of a Basset Hound in the first GiTS movie. I'm not sure why you are mentioning it like it is Innocence.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:02 pm

Yeah, I will admit I was less than impressed. The thing is, it's not a bad movie per se; the world and concepts (what little we see anyway) are intriguing. The problem is that not enough time is spent fleshing out the world of 2029, and too much time is spent with this pointless exposition and philosophical bullshit. Heck, I don't mind a bit of philosophy here and there; Evangelion managed it reasonably well (mainly because it actually had well-built characters and world) and Akira did it well (with almost no exposition to boot). It's just that GitS decides that every so often it's going to screech to a halt and spend its time with the aforementioned philosobabble to the omission of all else. A shame, as the action scenes were pretty awesome, and even the mission briefing/military tech porn were fun. If you cut out all the LOLOSHII inane bullshit and replaced it with some proper information regarding the world and characters it would be an outstanding movie.

Having gone through it all in my head and reread the plot it makes a lot more sense now, which does help the film's case. The sad thing is that it wasn't genuine depth or room for personal interpretation that required this (as is the case with EoTV) as much as it was just the sheer amount of complete and utter bollocks.

Like I say, I didn't hate it; I didn't even think it was a bad movie. It's just deeply, deeply flawed.

Still, I have heard that as you say the SAC series is superb (and mercifully Basset-free) so maybe I can watch that and appreciate Shriou Masamune's masterwork a lot more. Or I could read the original manga. Or I could-

*eyes DVD case*

Oh no. I just remembered. I bought the 2-pack of GitS (original and remastered) AND Innocence. Now I'm going to have to justify the £4.99 I spent on the boxset and watch the remastered version of GitS, complete with 3DCG shit, and Innocence, complete with even more exposition and *drumroll* EVEN MORE BASSET HOUNDS!

Why didn't I listen to BrikHaus?

EDIT: There's only 1 actual Basset Hound in the movie, but the TV screens seem to be filled with nothing but the floppy little wankers. Seriously, there's a whole electronics store with a bank of TVs in the window showing nothing but Basset Hounds.
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Postby caragnafog dog » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:15 pm

^ don't watch GiTS 2.0 man, it just adds yucky CG

Nisekoi 06: Holy shit, Kirisaki speaks good engrish.

Sekai Seifuku 01: "If you swear fealty to me, I shall share my snacks and the world with you." AMAZING. Thank you Para for telling me to pick this up.
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Postby Eleven » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:32 pm

I don't understand why everybody is critisizing GitS so much. I haven't seen any of the series' yet, but I really love the original movie from '95. Maybe it's just a matter of taste, because I liked the philosophical babble. ;) "Have you ever actually seen your brain?" Still one of my favourite quotes. :hahaha:
I watched Innocence only once and that was some years ago, so maybe I'd look at it differently now, but back then, I liked it, too. (Although not even near as much as the first one.)

Only critique I can agree to, is the ending coming a little abrupt, the film being a little too short for the story it wants to tell.
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Postby Fireball » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:41 pm

No one should ever listen to BrikHaus.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:01 pm

View Original PostSquigsquasher wrote:Yeah, I will admit I was less than impressed. The thing is, it's not a bad movie per se; the world and concepts (what little we see anyway) are intriguing. The problem is that not enough time is spent fleshing out the world of 2029, and too much time is spent with this pointless exposition and philosophical bullshit. Heck, I don't mind a bit of philosophy here and there; Evangelion managed it reasonably well (mainly because it actually had well-built characters and world) and Akira did it well (with almost no exposition to boot). It's just that GitS decides that every so often it's going to screech to a halt and spend its time with the aforementioned philosobabble to the omission of all else.


I think the world of GiTS is fleshed out in a very natural way, characters don't go out of their way to explain things, but you can get a lot out of the dialogues, this kind of approach feels appropriate to a mystery thriller such as this one. I also don't feel like there's too much philosophical content, just a couple of dialogues really, the rest of the time the movie is dedicated to being a futuristic police thriller, only in the end does the philosophical portion overtake the movie, but at that point it needed to.

caragnafogdog wrote:Sekai Seifuku 01: "If you swear fealty to me, I shall share my snacks and the world with you." AMAZING.


I also had great expectations after watching the first episode of this show, I must say they haven't really been met though, it has its ups and downs but so far it feels like a slightly above average comedy.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:24 pm

Perfect blue
Stalker guy was amazingly creepy. :cringe:
Also, wtf did I just watch.

9/10 and professional stalker sign of approval.
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Postby pwhodges » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:36 pm

GitS works for me; I don't even mind the CG in 2.0 that much, though I prefer the original if asked. Innocence is OK, but rather a waste of time. That's my current opinions; but I've not watched SAC - I have no idea if doing that would change my view.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:59 pm

View Original PostSquigsquasher wrote:Still, I have heard that as you say the SAC series is superb (and mercifully Basset-free) so maybe I can watch that and appreciate Shriou Masamune's masterwork a lot more.
But that's not Appleseed!

Truly, the original GitS was of indifferent quality (and the post-Kobe earthquake sequel verges on incoherence and shiny torpedo tits), and has only been improved in adaptation. This counterbalances what was done in every adaptation of the forever incomplete Appleseed.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I've not watched SAC - I have no idea if doing that would change my view.
SAC focuses much more on the police-procedural and political aspects of the cyberpunk world and eschews the personal Instrumentality scenario of the movie (or the manga).
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Postby Xard » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:50 pm

Original Ghost in the Shell film is great in my books though its storytelling is unconventionally loloshii to a point it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Oshii isn't interested in traditional narrative filmmaking and it shows. Stand Alone Complex is far more straightforward (and also better, but not due to lack of loloshii per se) and as such often liked even by people who didn't like GitS film.

Innocence I liked despite everything when I last saw it years ago. It's one helluva flawed bloated mess but I think overall it pulls through to the plus side of things. Still, it's Oshii's worst and most self-indulgent feature so if GitS anime was not your cup of tea Innocence will make you vomit.

GitS 2.0 is pointless.


And yeah, listening to BrikHaus when it comes to Oshii is dreadful mistake.

View Original PostDr. Nick wrote:Going back to the glorious Nippon wank in Silent Service, I'm not at all sure what the deal with it is and who's fundamentally responsible for it. Based on a very non-representative sample of Kawaguchi's works available in English, the guy doesn't really seem like a right-wing jingoist. In Araragi Express, the main character's most trusted friends are illegal Vietnamese immigrants, and they're all depicted as upstanding people who just happen to be gun smuggling, human trafficking criminals. Considering the original manga version of Silent Service is an absolutely beastly thing 32 volumes in length, it might be that the initial set-up we see in the anime gets totally shaken up in the later volumes. Or maybe not. It might also be that Takahashi went all Deep Blue Fleet with his adaptation and ramped up the Yamato Damashii more to his liking. There's really no way of knowing until the Balrogs stop eating all the brave scanlators daring to approach Zipang's Machuria arc and the rest of Kawaguchi's manga.


Yeah I can't say how it compares to the original manga. I'm kinda curious about this Takashi boogeyman series of a Deep Blue Fleet. There's very little information going around and certainly no subs for any episode. AND there seems to be absolute shitload of those episodes, I have no idea how any OVA series can run for so long yet maintain such level of obscurity.

Anyway, Silent Service was difficult to evaluate because of all this. If one leaves aside all the nippon banzai and stupid geopolitics nonsense it would be fairly good action film (though characters etc. would still count against it somewhat, there isn't a single even remotely humane feeling person in the whole cast). So in a sense it was a film that was good and bad at the same time and I ended up tossing a coin which side to focus on.

View Original PostFireball wrote:Watched the TTGL movies last weekend and I don't know if it's because they simply suck or because the series has little rewatch value to me but I found myself mostly bored. Some nicely added sakuga towards the end though.


The films are extremely meh, especially the first one.

View Original Postrobersora wrote: I would have never endured to watch, nor could recommend this train wreck if it wasn’t for the great directing by Anno. He manages to save the absolutely horrible source material, which is crowded in clichés, boring and/or unbearable children as „characters" and uninteresting plot. The story centers around people you don’t want to know in a setting you don’t want to know about because you cannot see it any more. In a sense you can compare it to The Great Gatsby, which uses the same approach. Both conceal the pile of shit the the core of the story inhabits in abundance of style.


I'm not one to usually make these sort of comments but you're simply dead wrong if you think Kare Kano was clichefest and stereotypical by-the-book shoujo romance. In fact this makes me suspect you haven't seen much shoujo romance.

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To begin with the lead characters are absolutely nothing like stereotypical shoujo leads have traditionally been. Especially Yukino Miyazawa who is pretty much anti-thesis of every other shoujo lead around. She's fiercely intelligent, strong-minded, egoistic and raucous borderline superhuman when the series starts. As far as genre typicalness of leads go she's way more original main character than Shinji was in the mecha anime context. Arima comes not too far behind, resembling model student Shinji if anyone and his jackass "rogue" quotient typical of shoujo leads (girls like assholes after all) is minimal.

Beyond this the storyline in the period anime covers veers quite clear of shoujo landmines. There are no love dodecahedrons involving main character to speak of. No second guy is ever inserted into Arima-Yukino equation (Asabi is a joke character for most part and hilariously enough is obsessed with Arima, not Yukino) while Tsubasa's crush on Arima quite quickly becomes non-entity and she's never treated as serious love rival.

What's more Arima and Yukino get together by episode 4! In the very beginning of the story! Typical shoujo manga wastes countless tankobons before getting to this point and might end not long thereafter. Kare Kano just breaks the rules here once again.


So I think in this respect you're not being fair to the manga at all.

(That characters get a lot character development as a rule (esp. the leads) isn't really deviation from shoujo pattern though, that has always been the greatest strenght of female-oriented manga in comparison to male-oriented. As such it isn't "playing against the rules" as obviously as above considerations)

View Original PostEleven wrote:I decided to finally watch Nadia - The Secret of Bluewater. I just finished episode 11. It's all fine, it's fun, it has its mysteries, but... How will this story fill 39 episodes? I feel like most of the answers to all the mystery stuff are pretty obvious (no, I didn't spoiler myself, I knew absolutely nothing about the show before I started it - except, that it's a classic).
I'm afraid of filler episodes, Nemo staring at his own version of Bluewater and looking gloomy every now and then, but answers at the very end. Is this how it's going to be?


Anno directed, GAINAX-TAC animated Nadia is basically episodes 1-22, 35-39. In between there's the infamous "Island Arc" that was largerly outsourced to other studios in Japan and Korea (esp. Korea) and was not directed by Anno. It's awful, characterization breaking filler for most part though episode 31 is exception and plot-relevant (hence why it's also on Anno's Nautilus Story edit).


Anyway, you can split down the story to 4 distinct arcs:

1. Tower of Babylon arc covering 1-8
2. Nautilus arc 9-22
3. "Island" arc 23-34
4. Finale arc 35-39

The story carries it's weight without any genuine filler apart from 3. I'd recommend skipping it entirely sans ep 31 but if you don't want to do that watch eps 23-31 and then absolutely skip 32-34 nevertheless. Existence of those episodes is nothing short of mystery because episode 35 follows logically from end of ep 31 and unlike Island arc earlier *there are no plans to be found for those episodes anywhere*. I have no idea why those episodes exist but they're also the very worst episodes of Nadia so, uhh...


*******************************

So, it looks like my journey of discovering how Eva influenced mecha anime continues. By now I'd like to call it "Journey of Discovery: How Neon Genesis Evangelion ruined /m/echa forever". I feel like I'm marching onwards in swamp of shit.

Last time the object of study was the trite cash-in Dinagiga. Unfortuntely farther this goes on worse the results seem to get...


Brain Powerd

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Isn't it sad, Gendo-kun

Oh wow. This series was spellbinding waste of potential and talent. This is the worst tv series from Tomino and I don't think he has ever topped this in awfulness outside the infamous Garzey's Wing-Wings of Rean OVA pair. What's tragic is that unlike those two this could've been great series. I have no idea how many times I've said this by now but a defining trait of Tomino seems to be this: Guy has great ideas for characters and stories as well as intriguing concepts per se but his ability in execution of said ideas ranges from schitzophrenic to non-existent.

Unfortunately Brain Powerd belongs to latter category non-stop. There's great anime here somewhere, buried under heaps of nonsense. The story premise is honestly pretty good, most characters have decent to great backstories and room for development and this all ties to series's main themes very well and naturally. Brain Powerd is clearly something of a sequel to Victory Gundam except it's done by Happy Tomino. Motherhood, family in general et cetera are the main themes here and the exploration of them with vague sorta-mystical organic mecha warfare and cast of characters suffering from emotional isolation and broken families is all very reminiscent of Eva.

Honestly, on purely conceptual level and in terms of story premises I think this had incredible potential to be Tomino's best work since original Gundam.

What's more the core team for the series is truly astonishingly high quality. First of all there's Mamoru Nagano doing mechanical designs and his work is very evocative and stylish per se. Orphan in particular is inside-out masterpiece of SF setting design and the basic "Anti-body" mecha design baseline is fittingly strange. Mutsumi Inomata's character designs are also of characteristically high quality, especially female characters have superb designs (in fact guys seem to be a bit "whatevered" in comparison). Last there's Yoko Kanno doing the soundtrack in her full late-90s glory.

But all of this is wasted by horrid, muddled storytelling and general nonsense directing on Tomino's part.

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if I had to sum the series up in one image this would be it


This series has some of the most awful, unintentionally confusing storytelling I have EVER seen in any series. I don't really want to go in much more detail than that because otherwise I'll be ranting here all night but since something needs to be said...

There's astonishing lack of explanations for most basic setup work any story needs to do for longest while, the series has bad habit of making at least one third of its dialogue utterly incomprehensible technobabble while remaining two thirds are infamous and stereotypical LOLTOMINO dialogue of the worst kind.

The story is not even all that complex but it's so incredibly poorly and confusingly told a lot of shit happening seems completely ad hoc or poorly motivated. Number of asspulls and nonsense plot twists don't help at all. What's more the series is absolutely terrible at creating any tension or sense of motion. Basically, there's this bigass space ship on bottom of ocean called Orphan and if it surfaces it's gonna kill all life on Earth. Except not. Except it will. Except not. Actually it jus surfaced but some vague shit about "B plates" meant no apocalypse occured. Except they weren't used. Except they were. Except they weren't and no one knows wtf B plates even are. Oh wait now it's rising higher and story is ending how is this going to end. Oh. Wait, you call that ending?


Characters fare little better. There are some powerful moments and good bits of characterization but in general there seems to be little rhyme or logic to character interaction and behaviour. While Brain Powerd lacks obnoxious kill em all streak of Victory in general characterization is surprise buttsex levels of confusing and alarming just like in it. Add on this the general major Tomino sin of expository abuse and we get some of the absolutely worst scenes and characterization from the guy I've ever seen.

Directing is per se pretty awful too. Tomino ruins a many would-be serious scenes with utterly incomprehensible formal choices: most blatant are those beyond stupid zoom-ins/zoom-outs of some particular shot repeated again and again and again. It's supposed to create intensity and sense of energy but it just looks fucking awful per se and is generally used in wrong places to boot. Tomino also does some really shitty editing and establishment of place and time here and there. For example late in series one scene inside Orphan ends with people looking shocked up. Then we get shot of mecha descending from angle that looks like obvious followup to previous shot. EXCEPT NOT AND THESE SCENES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.

If shit like this doesn't count as bad directing I don't know what does.

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The most hilarious example of random infodumb/expository dialogue abuse I remember ever seeing in anime. Also this shit makes absolutely no sense and came out of nowhere in context.

But Xard! Even if Tomino bumfucked the storyline and basic dramaturgy the mecha action will still be worth it right? Nagano's designs look pretty cool and Tomino has always known how to direct mecha action, right?

HA!

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yes even mecha action was generally shitty and looked like ass

I never expected I'd say this but Brain Powerd has absolutely awful mecha action. This is some early Ideon episodes tier bullshit except arguably worse. Brain Powerd's mecha are just plain boring in terms of abilities and looks after the initial buzz dies off. They're not very interesting to watch in fights per se but worst of all Brain Powerds and Gran Cher's look SO GODDAMN SIMILAR it's almost impossible to tell apart enemies and friendlies in most action scenes.

Basically, I see these extremely similar robots going at each other in the skies with little to no change in action style episode after episode and I can't even tell who is who. Early on I constantly made mistakes in assuming who was piloting what. Later on it gets a bit easier to tell thanks to stronger colour coding and new abilities of late-game Baronz but that's small consolidation.


Is there anything I'd unreservedly praise in Brain Powerd? Aside from Orphan design only one thing: the soundtrack. It's absolutely amazing and you have no idea how much it makes me wish Kanno had scored NGE instead of Sagisu. I think Eva has good soundtrack and all but something like Brain Powerd's score would've been absolute killer, especially late in series. Powerd's OST has fewer songs than I'd prefer (some were never even used in anime) but they're all fantastic, especially the stunning ending song Ai no Rinkaku sung by Kokia and Flow sung by Seika Iwashita. Those are just fantastic songs per se. I also like the OP song. Still, the real big deal here is the orchestral score that largerly alternates between dramatic chorals, subdued fittingly submarine feeling synth and sax driven numbers and string driven pieces of beauty and bombast.

I'd say the score overall is stronger than that of Turn A Gundam even so talk about waste. Too bad the use of music is most of the time awful. Apparently Tomino had huge trouble communicating to Kanno what he wanted to express and Tomino in turn had hard time using the music Kanno had provided him with. It shows. Sometimes as unintentional greatness in contrast, sometimes as plain bad mismatch. In any case soundtrack this good deserved much better series.

Brain Powerd's Level of Evangelization: so-so

Finally thereis the question of the depth of how Evangelized this piece is. While I think there's definitive influence in certain aesthetic choices (pyramid-ship, character design for Yuu's father etc.) mostly Eva's influence is quite abstract. It provided foil for Tomino and as such something he consciously tried to top and I'm sure certain scenes and some thematic blabber was influenced at least indirectly by Eva. Hell, series's tagline when it first aired in WOWOWOW reads like intentional negation to what Tomino took to be Eva's main message.


However, ironically enough I think the influence the series had on Brain Powerd is rather superficial and I believe Tomino when he said the overall storyline and themes were in place even before Eva aired. There's huge number of similarities in theme and focus but instead of influence I think this is just coincidence - Tomino was already doing something of a proto-Brain Powerd with Victory Gundam towards the end after all. Heck, Tomino has always been the original "mecha pilots with shit parents" guy and a lot of this sort of material in BP is already there in Zeta Gundam.

So the influence is there to some extent but it's not all that big. Tomino mostly just played up the similarities in interviews because he's a showman and he knew he would be accused of ripping off Evangelion regardless. So better to market the thing as his response and way to "crush" Eva!


Verdict: Awfully told story about parents and children.... through borderline incomprehensible organic mecha warfare. Lovely soundtrack.

3/10

De:vadasy

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nuff said

Once in six months or so I see something so bad even shitting on stinker like Brain Powerd feels unjustified in comparison. De:vadasy is one of those rarer than rare anime.

De:vadasy is absolutely worthless Eva derivative 3 episode long excuse of OVA. It is awful on every barometer (except mecha design as De:vadasy itself looks pretty cool and is logical continuation in terms of further beastification of mecha anime).

The production budget seems to be passable but it's so awfully directed not even Avatar tier budget could save this. What De:vadasy took to be Evangelion's essence was this: grimdark mecha, vague metaphysical threat to mankind (launching from Ramiel-shaped black hole in space no less), whiny and incredibly unlikeable main character, teh Rei and heaps of weird subtext and psychotechnosexual fetishism.

De:vadasy's main character is probably the most hateable cunt I've ever seen in mecha anime, combination of worst traits of Shinji and Urusei Yatsura's Ataru (if you can imagine that). He is least of its problems though. The series is directed in incredibly "artsy" way in obvious attempt to mimic Hideaki Anno's stylistic chops but the results are drivel that would fail to pass class in film school. The narrative is jumbled, non-linear mess with constant beyond shitty crosscutting, pathetic attempts at building tension and mood, abuse of darkness etc. "grim" art direction and general competence failure at Film Directing 101. In terms of directing this is Mars of Destruction tier bad except horribly pretentious and edgy try-hard to boot.

Then there's the storyline that makes no fucking sense, has no closure or decipherable story structure AND seems to exist only in order to throw grotesgue bullshit, shitty fight scenes that are over before they begin and tons of borderline-hentai sex and fetishism on the screen.

I bet De:vadasy is exactly how Eva would look like for someone who found it grimdark, disgusting and perverted pseudo-profound pretentious mess. What I don't get is why would such a person want to make his own Eva in this image!


In terms of content De:vadasy was Apocalypse Zero bad and in form mostly incompetent nonsense. However what's really damning is how it left me feeling disgusted and bored. It disgusted me with its barely hidden contempt for audience and leeching off Eva in the worst way possible, it bored me by being so awfully directed that no amount of sex, gore and mecha could raise my interest in the least.

De:vadasy's Level of Evangelization: Over 9000

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I don't have to say anything here do I...

Verdict: Absolutely appalling.

1/10

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:06 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:


You realize these two images completely contradict one another, right? I mean, when everyone in the cast is dealing with love triangles it's really not the same shit as a bloody harem. It's pretty much the exact opposite of that.

Especially Yukino Miyazawa who is pretty much anti-thesis of every other shoujo lead around. She's fiercely intelligent, strong-minded, egoistic and raucous borderline superhuman when the series starts.


No comment on Kare Kano, but that describes a lot of shoujo leads IME (it might have been far more novel at the time though). Misaki Ayuzawa, Utena Tenjou, Shizuku Mizutani, etc. Smart, strong-minded, and fiercely capable seem to be stock requirements for shoujo characters these days. Maybe that's just the shoujo I'm drawn to and not typical of the genre, I dunno.
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Postby Xard » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:18 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:You realize these two images completely contradict one another, right? I mean, when everyone in the cast is dealing with love triangles it's really not the same shit as a bloody harem. It's pretty much the exact opposite of that.


No they don't as far as shoujo goes as both have love triangle/quadrangle/dodecahedron going on. This is the important part and why I picked up those old /a/ images from my folder. It's what is said about shoujo that I agree about, the contrast with harem is secondary issue.

As for harem vs shoujo go both have love triangle/quadrangle/dodecahedron going on - only difference is that there's only character around which it revolves in harem, typically.

Having said that there's obviously big difference whether or not the the love drama bs revolves around many characters of both genders or only one guy. The lower image is accurate depiction of shoujo, harem and romance show dynamics whereas the upper one overstretches its case to equate shoujo wish fulfillment fantasy for girls with harem wish fullfilment fantasy for boys. There's definetly a shared element here but I don't agree with them being "same shit".


View Original PostBagheera wrote:No comment on Kare Kano, but that describes a lot of shoujo leads IME (it might have been far more novel at the time though). Misaki Ayuzawa, Utena Tenjou, Shizuku Mizutani, etc. Smart, strong-minded, and fiercely capable seem to be stock requirements for shoujo characters these days. Maybe that's just the shoujo I'm drawn to and not typical of the genre, I dunno.


Well, I meant in context. There would be nothing "original" about Mobile Suit Gundam if it came out today either. However both Ayuzawa and Mizutani hail from late 00s series.

Kare Kano was huge hit in late 90s shoujo market and big part of this was just how differently it played the school romance game (great humour was probably the other big draw and what got Anno into it). Nowadays KKesque leads are far more common.


Utena is special category anyway and doesn't really count because wrong genre. Utena is shoujo for sure, but it's not shoujo romance in mundane middle/high school setting (subgenre that I meant when I spoke of "shoujo romance"). Utena is, if anything, magical girl series. Though that too is a bit misleading when we evaluate Utena's character per se: Utena is spin on Lady Oscar from Rose of Versailles and quite obviously so too. Now while Versailles is definetly shoujo series it isn't really in the same genre as kare kano, kimi ni todoke et al. Of course it isn't magical girl manga either.

So yes, I was speaking in context.

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Postby Fireball » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:14 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:
if I had to sum the series up in one image this would be it

Having seen V Gundam I can only imagine :hahaha:


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Postby Bagheera » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:29 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Having said that there's obviously big difference whether or not the the love drama bs revolves around many characters of both genders or only one guy. The lower image is accurate depiction of shoujo, harem and romance show dynamics whereas the upper one overstretches its case to equate shoujo wish fulfillment fantasy for girls with harem wish fullfilment fantasy for boys. There's definetly a shared element here but I don't agree with them being "same shit".


Yeah. I don't even see much overlap, honestly; it's quite common for harem comedies to have no complexities to the relationships at all, with the lead being the only significant male in the show and everyone else fixated on him. The reverse is extremely rare, to the point where I've never even seen it, and shoujo additionally typically treats its supporting cast like actual people rather than objects of interest for the MC.

So yes, I was speaking in context.


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Postby pwhodges » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:13 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:I don't have to say anything here do I...

Verdict: Absolutely appalling.

1/10

You've made it sound intriguing, to the extent that I am tempted to watch it just to see how something can be as bad as you describe. But don't worry, I think I'll be able to resist.
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Postby Xard » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:51 pm

View Original PostFireball wrote:Having seen V Gundam I can only imagine :hahaha:


Yeahh, as I noted in my review there's very real synergy between Brain Powerd and Victory Gundam. If we call Victory Gundam Tomino's essay on feminine then Brain Powerd is Tomino's essay on family. I haven't seen/read the interview in question but apparently Brain Power is partly about "what happens when women stop having children"! :hahaha:

Take the weird mother figures and general feminism(?) weirdness from Victory Gundam, detoxicate director into Happy Tomino and add loads of astonishingly awkward and confusing storytelling and mecha fights and end result would not be that far from Brain Powerd. Unfortunately even Victory Gundam was loads better than this. For example there's no character even remotely as memorable and entertaining as Katejina, leads are nowhere near as likeable as Uso's gang and mecha fights suck hard. As much as I complained about Wheels in Space(tm) and related bs in Victory it was still Gundam title, despite hiccuping engine and flat tire or two.

View Original PostFireball wrote:By now you should have witnessed most of Tomino's greatest works, no?


Well, certainly all of his worst. Most likely I've also seen his greatest works. I mean, Tomino's most universally stomped on titles would be Garzey's Wing and Wings of Rean with comfortable margin. Then would come Brain Powerd. I've now seen all these and I doubt I'll see anything as bad from Tomino anymore because these are just that dreadful titles. If you're not Masami Obari you can't direct mecha anime this shitty with great frequency. On the other hand I've also seen Tomino's most celebrated work in general. As far as I can tell this category would include all of his Gundam (sans ZZ and Victory I guess), Ideon and Aura Battler Dunbine.

I have four series left that interest me and at least two of these enjoy good reputation:

- Zambot 3. From what I gather this series is notable for being genesis of Kill Em All Tomino but little else but since it's only 23 episodes I'll probably watch it some day. Obviously Kill 'Em All Tomino series.

- Xabungle which should be the classic Tomino comedy series. This one has good reputation and thanks to SRW seems to enjoy recent resurge in popularity. Happy Tomino.

- Heavy Metal L-Gaim aka the remaining 80s Tomino mecha epic done between Dunbine and Zeta Gundam. From what I understand it enjoys pretty good reputation too and is most notable for having Mamoru Nagano's character designs, mechanical designs and plot contributions in general (in fact Five Star Stories started as Nagano's spinoff of L-Gaim he started because he was so disappoint with L-Gaim anime). I'm quite interested in seeing what sort of creature Tomino/Nagano hybrid series has. Happy Tomino.

- Overman King Gainer. Actually this interests me the most and I've wanted to see it ever since I first saw the hilarious and addicting OP. It seems to be viewed as Xabungle's modern heir of sorts though whether or not people like it or find it meh in general is hard for me to figure out. Still, it looks very interesting to me and King Gainer design is really cool and original. I think I'm going to watch this next. Oh, and it's naturally Happy Tomino series.

Still, I seem to be fond off happy/weird Tomino so description like this:

2002's Overman King Gainer would continue the director's good run of form. Tomino actually had high hopes for the show, which was in production when he visited New York in 2002. He spoke about how he'd tried to keep western sensibilities in mind when developing it, and said that he hoped western fans would really enjoy it. Unfortunately, not all too many western fans got to see it - it was a relatively low-profile DVD release, and while a TV airing might've gotten it a little love, the show is honestly a hard sell. I absolutely love its weird mecha designs, cavalier disregard for physics, hilariously awkward main character, and rapid-fire, almost George Bernard Shaw-esque comic dialogue, but it's an acquired taste, and the show's climax is as muddled and weird as... well, as what we'd expect from Tomino.


makes it sound like it's right up in my alley.

I'd appreciate feedback on these four shows from people who have watched them in any case! :)

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:You've made it sound intriguing, to the extent that I am tempted to watch it just to see how something can be as bad as you describe. But don't worry, I think I'll be able to resist.


Well, I'm sorry if I did! :lol:

It's honestly very bad title all around. It's not uniquely bad in its schlocky story etc. elements (though the Evangelion makeover is obviously not something you find in pre-Eva OVA boom schlock) but the awful directing is what really pushed me over the edge. Since 1/10 score in MAL counts as "appalling" and this series genuinely appalled me I think it's more than deserving of the worst possible score I can give.

I may watch bad short OVAs quite often and even derive enjoyment from them but this was five bridges too many for me.

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Postby CJD » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:05 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:The films are extremely meh, especially the first one.


Climax is way better in the second one though. To paraphrase something I read once, why rewatch TTGL when you can just watch the last half hour of Lagnn-hen. :lol:
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Postby Azathoth » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:06 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:- Heavy Metal L-Gaim aka the remaining 80s Tomino mecha epic done between Dunbine and Zeta Gundam. From what I understand it enjoys pretty good reputation too and is most notable for having Mamoru Nagano's character designs, mechanical designs and plot contributions in general (in fact Five Star Stories started as Nagano's spinoff of L-Gaim he started because he was so disappoint with L-Gaim anime). I'm quite interested in seeing what sort of creature Tomino/Nagano hybrid series has. Happy Tomino.


Hey, that reminds me I never finished this. Groovy OP ("HEBI METUR") but I think I dropped it to watch...uh, some Macross or something? Been a while. I actually was pointed to it by the fact you mention about Nagano -- fact is I can guess why he was disappoint and Five Star Stories is much more immediately interesting with its cracked-out space western style (to say nothing of mech and character design) than L-Gaim, which manages to be about as bland as a show about a dude driving a bus containing a giant robot through the desert can be. Part of that is certes budget but on the other hand I'm pretty sure I've sperged out here before about why I love Five Star Stories OVA and long for scanlations of the manga, and a lot of it has to do with issues for which budget is completely irrelevant. E.g., compare L-Gaim's protagonist with Ladios and what I mean will become apparent: one is Tomino protagonist and one is Reinhard von Lohengramm playing Emperor of Man in drag. L-Gaim is simply a Tomino product in a way that 5SS isn't. That said the background details of the setting are close enough that I guess one could cast aspersions on Nagano for the fact.

Still gonna finish it though.
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Postby Xard » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:05 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:Climax is way better in the second one though. To paraphrase something I read once, why rewatch TTGL when you can just watch the last half hour of Lagnn-hen. :lol:


Well, I dunno. It's obviously a lot more over the top and "epic" (this is quite the achievement) than in tv series but I prefer dramaturgy in tv series. When I saw Lagann-hen my reactions to climax were basically "oh wow", "wow did they just do that huh", "lol spiral power overflow", "so GAINAX finally remembered to insert nipples into their newest mecha animu", "this sakuga is godly" and the like.

However it felt like bloated showoff festival on expense of everything else and hence I prefer the tv series climax. It was far more emotionally engaging to me and also, well, tighter in execution. Film climax just throws everything to curb to showcase just how far they can go.

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I'm pretty sure I've sperged out here before about why I love Five Star Stories OVA and long for scanlations of the manga, and a lot of it has to do with issues for which budget is completely irrelevant.


Has FSS manga been released in States? I've wanted to read it for really long time and I decided to make it my next gargantual SF epic after I finally manage to watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes (which I recently restarted though I'm still in single digits so this is gonna take a while :|).

I've also thought of rewatching the film beforehand because I suspect I'd probably appreciate it a lot more this time around. When I saw the film years ago my experience with 80s anime features was basically just Ghibli, DYRL and Akira and I was expecting something as great as those features were. Instead I got this obviously smaller production with "stupid 80s hair" and blatant Star Wars ripoffing and story that didn't even finish properly!

I think my broader perspective as well as evolved taste for all things 80s and fabulous would let me enjoy the film a lot more this time around.

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:That said the background details of the setting are close enough that I guess one could cast aspersions on Nagano for the fact.


These things are unsurprisingly the ones Nagano most strongly shaped in terms of story contributions. Since he was the lead designer for L-Gaim all around this meant he also had to create great deal of backstory for all this material he was designing (apparently Tomino wasn't providing it). This is where the similarities between L-Gaim and FSS are to be found most obviously.

I'm not sure if Nagano was originally supposed to have even bigger role in production, the series used tons of young 20something talents in general, but I do know the production was quite acrimonous affair and apparently Tomino and Nagano hardly had the best of relationships. In some interview few years back Tomino reflected that his authoritarianism and inability to intake contributions from others was main reason why he had never managed to top Mobile Suit Gundam. He was quite obviously thinking of his relationship with Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and Mamoru Nagano (and even his relationships with Okawara tended to be stretced even during best of times).

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Postby Azathoth » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:38 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Has FSS manga been released in States?


I've never seen a physical copy (and the only scans I know of are not great quality, which is a pity as Nagano's crazed imagination really shines more in a static medium than in motion) but there is an English-language version. No idea how widely it was released, but it came out in the early 2000s and it's not as if Nagano was ever widely popular in his own right. Good fucking luck tracking down Schell Bullet for instance.

That said, there's copies of the trades on Amazon, by the looks of it.

View Original PostXard wrote:I've wanted to read it for really long time and I decided to make it my next gargantual SF epic after I finally manage to watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes (which I recently restarted though I'm still in single digits so this is gonna take a while :|).


Haha, time to get caught up before new series comes out to rape your eyes with terrible CG space battles.

View Original PostXard wrote:I've also thought of rewatching the film beforehand because I suspect I'd probably appreciate it a lot more this time around.


Yeah, the biggest problem with the OVA is that it is a very condensed expression of a totally screwball space-fantasy universe and Nagano's designs (and hell, writing too) are so camp that one could have difficulty taking the movie at all seriously. What I've read of the manga has a much slower burn but the movie is mostly sold on whether or not you find Ladios Sopp entertaining, which I do. Fortunately I think that SERIOUS BUSINESS wasn't really the spirit in which the story was written - the farcical attitude taken towards Ladios' over-the-top androgynous design is a good example of what I mean. In the end it is all an excuse to draw "attractive" gynoids who are integral parts of the gigantic destructive deific mechanical fetish objects that are the real locus of Nagano's sexuality (panels of the manga look like something Giger would have been proud of), and that's a goal anybody should be able to get behind. But it's not as dumb as a story with such a premise might be. Which is not to say it isn't dumb at all, but rather it approaches its material with an appropriate attitude.

I mean come on, look at this kind of thing:

View Original PostNagano wrote:As an added attraction we have the mortar headd Knight of Gold, a special MH built for time travel and powered by cosmic ether and time energy...it has representations of male and female sex organs along with the hilt of its sword carved in relief upon the end of its stabilizer, signifying that it is neuter in gender, a veritable Brahman, the Vedic creator of the universe, or Avalokitesvara, boddhisatva of mercy perhaps. (Upon reflection, that is. I had no such idea while I was creating it).


Speaks for itself really.

Xard wrote:I'm not sure if Nagano was originally supposed to have even bigger role in production, the series used tons of young 20something talents in general, but I do know the production was quite acrimonous affair and apparently Tomino and Nagano hardly had the best of relationships. In some interview few years back Tomino reflected that his authoritarianism and inability to intake contributions from others was main reason why he had never managed to top Mobile Suit Gundam. He was quite obviously thinking of his relationship with Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and Mamoru Nagano (and even his relationships with Okawara tended to be stretced even during best of times).


Huh, this is interesting. I'm not surprised to hear of Tomino being hard to work with of course but I'd never heard of that outside of the context of Gundam. But yeah, L-Gaim has troubled production written all over it.
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