Why No Anime from Western Nations?

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Why No Anime from Western Nations?

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Postby MisatoCrush » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:38 pm

I've been watching tons of anime ever since I saw NGE.
Samurai Champloo, Attack on Titan, even Magica Pugen whatchamacallit.

And I thought, I really love these anime cartoons. I get so attached to the characters.

But

Why only Japan?

Why doesn't America or Spain or New Zealand make non-kiddie animated shows?
Why doesn't Brazil make an adult themed cartoon?

Do you think an American production company could make a successful adult-cartoon?
What would the storylines and plots revolve around?
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Postby Aiko Heiwa » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:50 am

There are anime-esque shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Also it probably has something to due with the prevailing attitude that cartoons = for children.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:43 am

Because America is still balls deep in the Animation Age Ghetto.

The only animated shows made here aimed at adults are sitcoms (Family Guy, South Park, The Simpsons, Archer, etc.)

This nation is still too culturally retarded as a whole to realize that animation can be used to tell a more mature story.
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Postby AR-99 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:45 am

The only examples that I can think of that aren't for kids are dated:

-Ralph Bakshi (haven't seen any of his works)
-Heavy Metal

And there are also animated/live action films like Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Cool World.

Since anime and manga are so intertwined, the widespread acceptance of manga in Japan and its availability towards all type of demographics has got to be a factor too. Whereas in the US, comics, even when one grows up with them, still tend to be geared towards a niche audience although the increasing adaptation of these into movies is making them more known in the mainstream.

Found this through Wikipedia: Can Americans Make Anime?
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Re: Why No Anime from Western Nations?

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Postby CJD » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:56 am

Depends on what you're looking for but there are plenty of successful adult cartoons in America, they're just almost exclusively comedy based.

You've got your household names like Simpsons, Southpark, Family Guy (and the rest of the MacFarlane shows). You've got King of the Hill and Beavis and Butthead from Mike Judge, and Futurama from the same guy who brought you Simpsons. Then you've got your Adult Swim shows such as Boondocks and Venture Bros, and their shorter stuff like ATHF if you want to include that. And when talking about adult animated comedy I'd be remiss to not mention Archer on FX.

Plus as someone else mentioned theirs Avatar, which isn't a comedy.

What you will have trouble finding, though, are action shows, or any non comedy really. I might be forgetting some but none come to mind.

Personal favorites? Archer is one of the best things on TV at the moment. Boondocks and Venture Bros are great but the gap between seasons is ridiculous. King of the Hill was pretty damn good, though I didn't catch it till it started being syndicated on Adult Swim.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:56 am

Setting aside ratters of definition (is anime necessarily culturally Japanese?), the first place I'd look is France, as BDs are a more widely accepted form than Code-damaged American material -- they're more manga-like in terms of popular adoption, aned have always included more adult material (as opposed to the more recent US-style grimderp) -- which explains why they have a lot of ouiaboux over there.

That said, I can't think of anything animated that wasn't kid-friendly material (Maison de Petit Cubes discounted as hybrid).
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:45 am

Well, Rooster Teeth has recently started an anime-like web cartoon called RWBY (I think there's a thread on it somewhere in the Film subforum) that is very much like a Japanese anime (wide eyes, fight scenes, over-the-top weapons, etc.) although it uses 3D modeling instead of 2D animation.
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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:48 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Because America is still balls deep in the Animation Age Ghetto.

The only animated shows made here aimed at adults are sitcoms (Family Guy, South Park, The Simpsons, Archer, etc.)


It's ADVENTURE TIME! Heathen. Glob knows animu only has a handful of shows that match its sincerity, or moments of pure cultural bliss.

Also, that stuff with Ponies, and a whole list of other productions by the Frederator/Pendleton Ward, like the Bravest Warriors.
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Postby C.A.P. » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:51 am

There is no such thing as American anime. Anime are cartoons, and cartoons have the same artistic merits as cartoons. Saying otherwise is foolish.

For shows, I point to Batman: The Animated Series, Anything else from the DC Universe, and Samurai Jack.
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Postby Falcon_of_the_Sun » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:03 am

View Original PostC.A.P. wrote:T
For shows, I point to Batman: The Animated Series,


It's one hell of a series, I'd recommend it to anyone. Same went with Gargoyles, same producer (Frank Paur?) as far as I can remember. Bless them Italian televisions which aired them both extensively and with very reasonable dubbing and adaptation.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:10 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Setting aside ratters of definition (is anime necessarily culturally Japanese?), the first place I'd look is France, as BDs are a more widely accepted form than Code-damaged American material -- they're more manga-like in terms of popular adoption, aned have always included rmore adult material (as opposed to the more recent US-style grimderp) -- which explains why they have a lot of ouiaboux over there.

That said, I can't think of anything animated that wasn't kid-friendly material (Maison de Petit Cubes discounted as hybrid).

To expand on it : while it's true that France and Belgium have BDs(for "Bandes Dessinées") made adult material more accepted, there is still a great differentiation between the paper support(BDs) and animated format : BDs are accepted as being a medium of large demographic spectrum akin to the mangas, cartoons are still considered as mainly "kids stuff", you don't find any mature material in it.(and I'm not talking about just sex)

To put an example, take Diabolik, an Italian BD series about a thief operating under the nickname "Diabolik" and specialized on the most spectaculars heists possible, the more impossible the better, with Hi-Tech gadget, spy stuff like latex masks and all. A Mediterranean version of Lupin III.

- in the original BD, he's a cold-blooded criminal without any kind of remorse(but have a code of honor) who doesn't hesitate to kidnap, blackmail or assassinate in cold blood any obstacle in his path(daggers being his favorite weapon and slitting throats his favorite method of execution), he even drove witnesses irremediably mad by harassing them so they wouldn't be considered a valid in a prosecution against him! And he's doing all of this just for his own personal interest and don't give a rat-ass about the rest of the world, except his partner in crime and lover, Eva.

- now in the animated adaptation from the end of the 90's, he's a modern Robin Hood, working for the Good and robbing corrupt politicians and CEOs to impart justice and expose their crimes, as well as fighting against a super-Illuminati-esque organization trying to control the world. Of course, in this version, he never kills anyone.


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Postby LegionWrex » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:50 pm

Like CJD stated, the only "adult" cartoons here in North America are sitcoms.

I think we may need to wait a bit longer a serious adult cartoon.

That being sad, I still do love my South Park.
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Postby Gorbatschow » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:01 pm

View Original PostLegionWrex wrote:Like CJD stated, the only "adult" cartoons here in North America are sitcoms.


I really like how you "adult" in quotation marks, since I personally wouldn't say, that these shows are rudimentary adult.

===

The western cinema culture in general is quite bad, not only in regards to cartoon. At least you find a couple of good movies if you dig a little, but if we talk about animated movies and shows, it's really hard to find something remotely sophisticated.

But I don't want to act like every anime is high-class entertainment, considering, that what feels like 80% of the shows out there are either brainless, monotone harem "romances" or run-of-the-mine shounen-crap. But the difference is, that there actually is a market for grown-up, "Not-completely-stupid"-stuff.

Regarding the "what is anime"-debate, that was brought up earlier: This video explains pretty good why this discussion is rather dull.
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Postby Xard » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:17 pm

View Original PostGorbatschow wrote:The western cinema culture in general is quite bad, not only in regards to cartoon. At least you find a couple of good movies if you dig a little, but if we talk about animated movies and shows, it's really hard to find something remotely sophisticated.


You're full of shit is all that needs to be said here.
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Postby LegionWrex » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:21 pm

View Original PostGorbatschow wrote:The western cinema culture in general is quite bad, not only in regards to cartoon. At least you find a couple of good movies if you dig a little, but if we talk about animated movies and shows, it's really hard to find something remotely sophisticated.


Ok, that's a load of bullshit. There's a lot of sophisticated American films and shows. Here's a few to spring to mind:

-The Dark Knight
-Breaking Bad
-The Godfather
-Inception
-The Walking Dead
-Toy Story Trilogy
-Citizen Kane
-Any film that has "Sundance Film Festival Selection" on the poster
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Postby Gorbatschow » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:28 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:You're full of shit is all that needs to be said here.


Awfully nice and constructive, thank you. ^_^

@LegionWrex

What I was trying to say is, that about 90% of the movies getting released are horrible in terms of writing and story in general. Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "digging" since I wanted to imply, that you have to look beyond the big, mainstream movies á la "Fast and the Furious" to find some kind of sophisticates writing, characters and plot. (Exceptions would be movies like "The Wolf of Wall street" or shows like "Breaking Bad", but they're rather rare compared to the amount of other productions)

Same is with animated movies and shows, unless you look up stuff like the work of Rene Laloux or at least shows like "Avatar - The last Airbender", you'll have to stick with productions like Family Guy or Assy McGee.

But, yeah, I was exaggerating and overstating the case when I claimed that . I just wanted to say, that most, not all, of the good selling productions are really poorly written.

P.S. I love nearly every of the movies you listed, just saying.
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Postby C.A.P. » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:39 pm

The existence of this thread depresses me. Aren't we all here because we love animation as an art form? Or it's that we mistake the best of anime as the one and only art form worth merit for all times forever and ever?
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Re: Why No Anime from Western Nations?

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Postby heavytread » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:52 pm

View Original PostMisatoCrush wrote:Do you think an American production company could make a successful adult-cartoon?
What would the storylines and plots revolve around?


Honestly an American production company would probably make an episode or two serious and adult themed but then freak out and quick change it to a more kid themed show. The closet thing to a serious show we've ever made are Batman: The Animated series and Batman Beyond (not nearly as much for the latter though. Still freaked me out when I was five though).

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Postby soul.assassin » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:05 pm

Why No Anime from Western Nations?


Because if it's made outside Japan, the animation will look like a cheesy cliche with random phrases pasted in kanji.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:46 pm

^You mean like most anime today? Given that they're drawn primarily in Korea or China?

View Original PostLegionWrex wrote:Like CJD stated, the only "adult" cartoons here in North America are sitcoms.


Except, there's a few holes in that statement I can drive a truck through. The DCUA films, the last one I watched had the protagonist killing his own mother, and featured a much more grimdark, apathetic Batman embodied by
SPOILER: Show
Thomas Wayne, in grief over the death of his son, and the mental break down of his wife.


Marvel is also now filling in the gap, both with the DCUA's success, and that of their major film properties.

There's also Halo Chronicles, The Animatrix, and the Marvel Animes, the fusion works of Japanese artwork and American stories, marketed directly at adult audiences here.

Yami: But that's not all!

The Secret of Kells, Watership Down, Waltz with Bashir, and yes, the phenomenal Pixar films.

Also, I mentioned The Bravest Warriors before for another reason, Frederator Studios is experimenting with web-based, shoe-string productions to get more projects off the ground, BWs is the flagship right now in that effort. Not all of their projects are going to be comedies.
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