Evangelion 3.0 & EoE: A potential parallel connection?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Evangelion 3.0 & EoE: A potential parallel connection?

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Postby WunderBah » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:47 pm

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Even if this may look like fan-wankery of mine, what if...just for a thought...3.0 & EoE shared similar elements with each other in regards to connections/parallels and such?

EDIT: Added some more.

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Last edited by WunderBah on Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:58 pm

While I can see reasons for including artistic parallels (a la KLK/Gurren Lagann), I don't think they're that parallel in terms of story. That's just my opinion; I'm sure there's somebody with the opposite idea.

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Postby Ray » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:29 pm

Ever hear of the "In Spite of a Nail" Trope?

Basically the idea is that even if you went back in time and changed something. It would still happen. with different people, and maybe even different results or at different time and place, but it would happen regardless.

a good example would be. If you went back in time and killed Hitler, WW2 would still happen.

So basically, despite Kaworu attempting to avert instrumentality it will happen, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

It happened before, it will happen again.
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Postby themufanman » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:18 pm

3.0 is what would have happened if the main cast survived third impact
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Postby Stratomeister » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:39 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:While I can see reasons for including artistic parallels (a la KLK/Gurren Lagann)


Agreed, I find it very interesting, and even nostalgic for Anno to draw artistic parallels with his past works, even if I didn't actually catch any of them until they were laid out before me buffet style. :tongue:

As for the storyline.... honestly, it's anyone's guess at this point.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:44 pm

Just saw the edit. That last one... You know, you may have something going with that one. Let's just hope that Asuka doesn't play tonsil hockey with Shinji before getting blown to smithereens.

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Postby xanderkh » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:59 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Just saw the edit. That last one... You know, you may have something going with that one. Let's just hope that Asuka doesn't play tonsil hockey with Shinji before getting blown to smithereens.



Having Tonsil Hockey and being blown up is better than having NO Tonsil Hockey whatsoever, at least in my opinion as an AxS shipper. :devil:

Plus, if Instrumentality goes the way of EoE in Rebuild, people will eventually come back. :lol:
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:01 am

As a man who has played tonsil hockey, I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. :devil:

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Postby LightDragonman » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:07 am

I actually noticed this recently (albeit this was after playing Metal Gear Solid 2 over and over again -o-; ).

3.33 does seem to formally callback to the original series, and even the first two movies in multiple ways. Like MGS2, it twists them around so as to subvert the audiences expectations. I could go more in-depth, but just look at the topic I made for this whole thing.
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Postby Sachi » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:09 am

There's references to the original series and EoE all over the Rebuild films; 1.11 alone had the blood stained moon, the chalk outline, and the red ocean as throwbacks to EoE, all without any real significance/meaning/connection/whatever. It's very clearly being done on purpose, but it's likely just Anno having his fun. Either way, it makes the NME universe all the more interesting, and that I like.
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Postby LightDragonman » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:35 am

I'd seriously lol if at the end, it reveals that all the events in the Rebuild saga were just a simulation to test Shinji to see if he could be manipulated given the correct circumstances and the like, Metal Gear Solid 2 style.

Speaking of MGS2, the last two codecs in it pretty accurately describe Shinji's actions and situation (skip to 9:35 of the video):

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA[/url]

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Postby AngelNo13Bardiel » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:34 am

^ Hm, never noticed those particular parallels before. Does make sense when you think about it.

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Having Tonsil Hockey and being blown up is better than having NO Tonsil Hockey whatsoever, at least in my opinion as an AxS shipper. :devil:


Now just a sec--

Oh wait, this is Rebuild we're talking about. Eh, sure, go ahead and let it happen then. Not gonna matter a lick, though. :shrug:

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:As a man who has played tonsil hockey, I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. :devil:


I second that. I watched and waited expectantly for whatever was gonna happen on 12/22/2012 with Ash. Way I saw it, I had already done better in life than I thought I would so the end didn't seem like such a bad idea (still doesn't, if we're being honest). And what better way to witness the end of the world than with the one you love?
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Postby CJD » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:09 am

People have been speculating that Asuka in 4.0 is going to play a similar role to Misato in EoE since definitive spoilers first came out.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:37 am

Seeing 3.0 as Rebuild's take of EoE or even narratively being a post-EoE story is an old debate, it was first talked the very day after Q's release in Japanese theaters!

Personally, I think that the other pilots got their EoE at the end of 2.0 and that the time skip were their post-EoE story, while 3.0 was Shinji's personal EoE, and FINAL will be his post-EoE story :

  • Asuka :
    - in EoE : get devoured by a bunch of automated Evas after a "rebirth" during which she realized that her mother was alongside her all this time, making her happier than she ever was and filed her character with hope for a better future. After that she's seen coming back to life not in a stellar mental state but with the will to live.

    - in Rebuild : gets devoured by an automated EVA-01(the image of it ripping EVA-03's gut with its teeth and later bitting the entry plug instead of crushing it by hand is not a coincidence), just after she realized that she actually likes having friends, that relying on others isn't that bad and that she can actually genuinely smile, marking one of the happiest moments of her life. Comes back to "life" during the time skip(with a missing eye to put the parallel further), is massively pissed off at everything(like "Kimochi Warui" Asuka), but still has the will to live, found her place in the world and capitalized on her previous character development, seen with her vitriolic friendship and teamwork with Mari.

  • Rei :
    - in EoE : reunites with Lilith and becomes a god before disappearing seemingly forever(or at least in a plane of existence outside of Shinji's reach and perception), after having learned to express her emotions and realized that there are people who cares for her(Shinji), which made her character evolve beyond being a simple "doll".

    - in Rebuild : get absorbed by Zeruel(an Angel) and after that by a pseudo-awake EVA-01(a God) and disappeared seemingly forever in another plane of existence(trapped inside EVA-01's core alongside Yui), that was after two movies worth of character development where she learned to express her feelings and realized that there are people caring for her as a person.

    Notice a very interesting inversion here : in EoE, Rei's feelings and character development were what ultimately led to Gendo's downfall, but in Rebuild, said feelings and character development were encouraged by Gendo and part of his plan, leading to his success at the end of 2.0.

    Rei Q... well personally Rei Q is a completely original character, an interesting take on the "clone" aspect of Rei without the soul transfer included that basically made Rei III in NGE as an "upgraded Rei II". I'm sure that differencing herself from Rei II and the image of Rei Ayanami will be the core of her arc in FINAL, it already began in Q when Asuka told to not do what would Rei Ayanami would do, but what she wants to do, establishing Rei Q as a different character than Rei from 1.0 and 2.0, except that she has the same face.

  • Now the most interesting part, Shinji :
    - in EoE : Shinji feels increasingly isolated, thinks that Rei is a stable point of his before realizing that she's not exactly the same Rei as before(Rei III), meet and befriend Kaworu, giving him hope that things can finally start to get better, before he had to kill him as the Final Angel, which drives him to the deep end of despair where his madness and despair makes him trigger an Impact, before realizing that it's not what he wanted and aborting it.

    - in Rebuild : Shinji's N3I at the end of 2.0 could have been his EoE, since he was despairing over the loss of loved ones(Asuka and later Rei) and triggered the end of the world in a fit of rage... but it's ultimately subverted on every level possible : he didn't know that he was triggering a world ending event, he didn't actively wanted to destroy the world(only allegedly didn't cared about it, preferring fighting for his own wishes like Misato told him to), it was not out of spite against the world but to save someone, it was interrupted before destroying the world and tanging the whole planet(yes, I still can't believe that N3I is what destroyed Tokyo-3 like that, and maybe the world, it doesn't hold in front of everything we saw and heard from Kaworu in 2.0 and 3.0), and instead of going back into the leaving world to confront reality, like EoE!Shinji did, somehow he ended in orbit around Earth for 14 years, denying him his "post-EoE" character development Asuka and the rest of the cast(minus Rei) beneficed from.

    So once he came back in 3.0 he got 14 years and a big trauma worth of character development to catch up, and thus the events of the movie were his remedial lessons on the matter, hell the plot has many parallels to the bitter arc and EoE, except that the order of the events are mixed : Shinji feels increasingly isolated(his stand in the Wunder, then the Geofront and NERV HQ in ruins and almost completely abandoned, his father being even more cold and callous than before, "Rei" acting like a stranger), meet and befriend Kaworu as the only nice and seemingly stable individual in this insane new world, is driven into the deep ends of despair when he discovers what happened to Tokyo-3 and that apparently it's his fault and later when Fuyutsuki reveals to him that the Rei he though he saved is actually another one, then in a fit of madness and desperation trigger an Impact by pulling out the spear before realizing that it's not what he wanted... but can't abort it since tis time he's not in control, it's finally Kaworu and Mari who stop the Impact, then Shinji "kills" Kaworu as consequence of pulling out the spears and get his massive dose of pain and despair that the others got during the past 14 years.

    End of the remedial class.

And just to drive the parallel with EoE further, we have Asuka playing the same role than Misato in EoE : someone who expected him to move, but instead found him broken and catatonic, then manhandle him to make him get a hold of himself, and finally after failing to do so grab them by the wrist and drag them to safety!
Except that while in EoE Misato led Shinji to the end of the story, the End of Evangelion, here narratively speaking EoE already happened both for Asuka and now on a personal level for Shinji, and she's dragging him to the continuation of the story, the first "true" post-EoE story, in spirit if not in form.

Anno said that he would bring this version of Evangelion toward a completely new ending, and now that he finished the "homework" of rebuilding the original series, its the perfect occasion for it.
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Postby FluffyBunny » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:58 pm

That was an awesome post. Thank you very much ElMariachi!

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Postby Dataprime » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:07 pm

Does this picture help?

Image

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Postby LightDragonman » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:22 pm

Yep, we seriously need a Driving Off The Map analysis for this series. Rebuild 3.33 is now essentially the Metal Gear Solid 2 of the series. :tongue:

As for Rei Q, we actually debated this a a lot ElMariachi. Personally speaking, when looking at it from a formal perspective, the development that Rei II had gained actually began to shine through immediately following Shinji's rejection of her as "not his Ayanami". Like, her inner character growth and actions began to mirror that of her predecessor. Note how her being trapped inside Unit 09 and unable to control it mirrors when Rei II was trapped inside Zeruel. And like before, she escapes only after being encouraged by someone else? Heck, the last shot of her looking sadly at Shinji's discarded SDAT player is almost an exact recreation of when Rei II retrieved it in 2.22.

What does all this mean? Well I can't say that this is the complete factual truth, but I feel that Anno is subtly communicating through her that not all of the hope and development from 2.22 is completely lost. Heck, he is now essentially giving Rei Q the chance to redeem the failures that came out of that film's climax. Her development mirroring Rei II's, imo, signifies that she will indeed give us what we had expected would happen, just done in a way we weren't expecting.

As for the EoE connections, looking at it from a formal perspective, I see Rei Q merging with the core of Unit 01, which still contains the soul of Rei II. I believe that the former's soul is incomplete if I recall correctly. Thus, the memories, experiences, and developments of both (keyword being both) Reis with combine to form a whole new, more complete version of her. Again, formally recalling when Rei II merged with Lilith to create a whole complete new entity. The key difference being, while Reilith was the sign that the end was about to come, the new Rei will be one of the signs that hope is being restored.

Again, all just speculation. Feel free to counter my points.

At the very least, I hope Rei Q at least goes through character growth akin to this guy's:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_AkU8wJ1ZA[/url]

:lol:
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Postby Charsi » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:02 pm

The Asuka - Misato connection is strong. I never even noticed the hallway phone thing. That's ridiculous.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:27 pm

These are the things that worry me about 4.0. EoE developed Rei perfectly, 4.0 needs to develop...2 REIs? :bigeyes:
Anno, better forget about otakuing around for a while and write a goooood screenplay.
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Postby Ray » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:26 pm

The Time loop theory . . . . we meet again. . .

The theory simply put, conjoins The "Mind Screw" finale End of Evangelion with the Rebuild films. The theory states, simply that after the End of Evangelion in that post apocalyptic world Shinji created. . . Someone or something happened to send . . . someone or something, back in time to attempt to prevent Human Instrumentality, and in doing so created the theoretical Rebuild Timeline. In a manner similar to how Biff created an alternate timeline in Back To The Future II, or how Nero's prescence created an alternate timeline in the Star Trek Reboot.
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