SoryuUberAlles wrote:Ironically that's a sensitive point that Manga Shinji doesn't deliver very sensitively. I think some of the Rei stuff Sadamoto does add is just gold, but he adds a lot of other stuff between Rei and Shinji that I think doesn't live up to them and has a hard time sharing focus. For example, the manga's Matarael-version kiss: Good Rei-Shinji detail, but please not in the middle of the 'you won't even hold me' kiss!

well, it ISNT the "You won't even hold me" kiss. We have a whole different dynamic in the manga, and it's set at an earlier point.

Also: Rei is in there because Asuka brought her up. Because she's jelly. Or rather, she doesn't want Rei to have something she doesn't have, it's not about Shinji at all, and that is the point.
It's about Asuka making herself feel superior to both her fellow pilots; And, most importantly, making herself feel like an adult.
She's only after Shinji because Kaji said no earlier that day.

That's not too far from the point in the original episode 11.

Heck, it's not too far from the point in episode 15, if you think about it, but that's a whole different can of worms. But she was signalling that she wants one thing, and got pissed that she didn't get another.

Kendrix wrote:well, it ISNT the "You won't even hold me" kiss. We have a whole different dynamic in the manga, and it's set at an earlier point.
...
Heck, it's not too far from the point in episode 15, if you think about it, but that's a whole different can of worms. But she was signalling that she wants one thing, and got pissed that she didn't get another.

That's kind of what I mean. From Asuka's PoV, it's a similar moment, and it's consistent with her character, but Sadamoto is shifting it to Shinji's PoV. In 'real' terms play the some role in their relationship, but the emotional reception is changed by the presentation. It makes sense as an artistic decision, I just think NGE handled it better.

This thread has actually changed my mind about what Anno and Sadamoto seem to be doing. I'm probably going to watch 2.0 again with fresh eyes.

Does ep 15 actually show us Asuka's PoV, tho, or are you just injecting what you learnt much later in 22'?

See that shot where we see his face all red and her's normal, or the focus on his ever twitching oxygen-deprived hand...

You also simply need different narrative techniques for different media - the manga can hardly emulate swift flashing images, or long silence with occassional BG noise, for example.

...Everyone remembers that Rei is a clone of his mother, right? I find that just a bit creepy. [/i]

saintdane05 wrote:...Everyone remembers that Rei is a clone of his mother, right? I find that just a bit creepy. [/i]

Nobody forgot, though just saying 'clone' is oversimplifying things. However delving into what exactly their relationship is and how that should affect anything is a rather large discussion all on it's own that would detract from this thread.

THIS THREAD would probably be the best place to go into that topic if you want to.

saintdane05 wrote:...Everyone remembers that Rei is a clone of his mother, right? I find that just a bit creepy. [/i]

Yeah, pretty much why Shinji adored Rei so much(she was comforting To him)

and.... yes incest is creepy but RxS isn't that bad

saintdane05 wrote:...Everyone remembers that Rei is a clone of his mother, right? I find that just a bit creepy. [/i]

If in some weird Eva universe future LRS actually happened, I wouldn't find it creepy; I'd find it tragic. and I'd still be kind of giddy about it.

Sadamoto is a wise man if he is Rei X Shinji supporter.

Giji Shinka wrote:Sadamoto is a wise man if he is Rei X Shinji supporter.

I'd say by the end of the manga the LRS Maru has been thoroughly sunk.

saintdane05 wrote:...Everyone remembers that Rei is a clone of his mother, right? I find that just a bit creepy. [/i]

Incest just makes the ship that just much hotter in people's opinion(Not mine personally). But, have you seen the reaction to My Little Sister Can't be this Cute.

That being said if you come to Evangelion for the shipping your probably going to disappointed.

What is this strange talk of Rei/Shinji relationship being incest?

Rei being a clone of his mother, 'n all?

Dream wrote:What is this strange talk of Rei/Shinji relationship being incest?

incest in·cest (ĭn'sěst')
n.
Sexual relations between relatives who are forbidden by law to marry; for example, between father and daughter or mother and son.

One could argue by that definition that it isn't incest, considering Rei isn't Shinji's mom, nor are they forbidden by law to marry.

Well, I guess it might be incest, no reason not to do it though, haha.

Look, if loving a clone of your mom is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

I don't feel like it would be incest. Rei never had to push Shinji out of her growler like Yui did. Plus, they're like 2 totally different people, personality wise.

Chuckman wrote:Look, if loving a clone of your mom is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

My life motto.

Reichu wrote:I'd say by the end of the manga the LRS Maru has been thoroughly sunk.

Tragic end =/= never happened.

Never mind that Rei only looks like Yui.
Stoic, unerathly warrior poet with a hidden caring side =/= manipulative, if well-intentioned mad scientist mastermind.


You'd think Q would have killed this whole "It's just because she looks like Yui" thing stone dead. (At very least once he names Yui along with Gendo and Misato as people he can no longer trust, right after lamenting her demise)

You could, of course, say that this has nothing to do with the Manga or any other continuity that isn't rebuild, but seriously, are people "symbiotically smothering in a twistedly maternal way" just because they're ocassionally nice to you?
Especially if they lay on the brutal honesty thick and required you to win their respect first. (the Manga adding an extra instance when she tells him to just tell his wishes to Gendo's face instead of wondering in silence/waiting for stuff to happen. The Manga's good moments are only found here and there, but I felt that was a particularly fitting advice for her to give, since that's what she'd do, just tell stuff to people's faces. )

The Yui thing is more like a looming doom in the background, part of the waiting inevitable doom than it has anything to do with their relationship.

There's no actual family bond being horribly subverted, no westermark effect that should have formed, it's just sad, sad greek tragedy level irony.

The Greeks banged their cousins so they have no right to judge clonelove. Up yours, Homer.

CJD wrote:One could argue by that definition that it isn't incest, considering Rei isn't Shinji's mom, nor are they forbidden by law to marry.

Since clones aren't part of the human landscape at the moment (identical twins notwithstanding), I wouldn't expect the dictionary definitions of incest nor marriage laws to specifically mention them. Fortunately, we do have this alternate definition to cover our LRS bases:

sexual intercourse between closely related persons.

I'm not sure why I didn't just post it in the first place.