Filling the gap

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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ElMariachi
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:24 pm

^^
Not exqctly, in NGE the contact experiment was also planned by Yui, who didn't told Gendo about it because he would have done everything he could to stop her.

And it was also implied that she told Fuyutsuki about what she was going to do so he could keep an eye on Gendo(the manga even explicitely shows it via a flashback between Kozo and Yui the day before her disppearance)

That would explain why Kozo had a more distant relationship with Gendo in NGE, being purely a profesionnal relationship, while in NTE they are much closer, Fuyutsuki being portrayed as Gendo's confidant and co-conspirator.

Since in 3.0 he seems to be in it more for Yui's sake than everything else, and with his comment in 1.0 that Zoop releved, it seems that this time Yui, Fuyutsuki and Gendo are in cahoot.

Shinji really has the worst family ever...
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Monk Ed » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:00 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:That would explain why Kozo had a more distant relationship with Gendo in NGE, being purely a profesionnal relationship, while in NTE they are much closer, Fuyutsuki being portrayed as Gendo's confidant and co-conspirator.

Gendo and Fuyutsuki's relationship doesn't seem any different to me between series. What indicates that Fuyutsuki and Gendo are any closer in NME than they were in NGE? (Or further apart in NGE for that matter.)
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:13 am

Well, during their conversations in private Kozo seems to participate much more in the panning and know more about the details of Gendo's plans, for example in 1.0 when he said that Shinji running away but coming back after some time is exactly how Gwndo planned it, later it's him who suggested to brainwash Shinji if he refuses to participate in operation Yashima, or in 2.0 when he said that, "as we though, those two were enough to awake EVA-01", meaning that he knew the exact details of Gendo's plan to use Rei and Shinji to awake VEA-01.

Overall, where in NGE Fuyutsuki was more passive and a listener, in NTE he's more active and propose options to Gendo to further their plans. Hence my nagging feeling that both of them and Yui are in cahoot this time, instead of just Yui and Fuyutstuki like it was implied in EoE(and outright stated in the manga)
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby iihieiii » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Did you guys already watched this video ?

PS: I know that there is a lot things that don't make any sense on this vid =P, but it's kinda cool to see what may happend anyway ;P

[url]http://evangelionbr.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/fan-made-eva-qo-que-aconteceu-durante-os-14-anos/#more-7505[/url]

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Postby riffraff11235 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:23 pm

@iihieiii That was pretty cool, even with all the errors. :lol: Seems like the creator only had Vocaloid character models at his disposal....
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Postby Charsi » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:12 pm

New gap filling theory inspired by the Kaworu theory thread currently on page 1.

Mark 06, when it launched at the end of 2.22, was piloted by Kaworu. Mari and Asuka had briefly met this pilot, because at some point the 11th Angel came and went and one would think they fought and defeated it together.

Kaworu takes Mark 06 and begins to descend into dogma, presumably to somehow make Shinji happy. It is at this point that Kaworu "falls" to become the 12th Angel. Asuka and Mari are scrambled to stop him and fail; Asuka is possibly injured at this time. Mark 06 evolves (turns white) and begins to merge with Lilith, initiating 3I. FoI spring up everywhere, looking like Eva-01 because Lilith's soul is in the wrong place - it's Rei, which is in Eva-01, so the FoI are all kinds of confused. Kaworu realizes whatever lie he was sold isn't going to work and attempts to stop the ceremony with the spear. That doesn't work either.

NERV resorts to beheading Lilith which stops the ceremony in it's tracks. The FoI zerg towards the head, but don't make it. Mark 06 falls silent but by then most of the damage has been done. The 12th Angel that's still alive inside Mark 06 is just another Kaworu clone. The Kaworu we see in 3.33 isn't the same guy from 2.22 - he hasn't been kicking around for 14 years waiting for Shinji. He's a fresh clone, ready to make all the same mistakes as last time.

14 years later, pretty much the exact same thing happens. Kaworu - a new one - "falls" to become the 13th Angel, the Eva he's piloting goes god mode, Kaworu realizes it's not working and tries to stop 4I with spears. That doesn't work either and there's a slightly different beheading. Seele have a backup plan this time, but Mari force-ejects the entry plug, halting 4I.

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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:23 pm

Interesting theory, but there is a flaw : Kaworu's power and status as an Angel don't come from his body(which is a pretty normal Lilin body, albeit with unusual hair and eye colors) but his soul : and if he already descended from First to 12th Angel in the past and got replaced by another clone without recuperating the soul, then that fresh clone would be entirely human, and thus unable to trigger an Impact(like Rei Q) and without powers, and since we saw him strolling outside without protective gear and do his magic AT Field Hax with the DSS Choker, then that means that the soul of this Kaworu is the same that form 14 years ago.

Besides I doubt SEELE would have trusted him with their plan if they already tricked him before and he noticed it.

But still nothing said that he didn't gone a little crazy after spending 14 years in neo-NERV and setting the actual 3I if he was the pilot of Mark.06 14 years ago...
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:10 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Interesting theory, but there is a flaw : Kaworu's power and status as an Angel don't come from his body(which is a pretty normal Lilin body, albeit with unusual hair and eye colors) but his soul

I assume you're making this guess based on NGE, but it wasn't true in NGE either. Case in point: the Evas. But even leaving that aside, we don't know exactly how these mechanics work in Rebuild. We don't have the same wealth of knowledge about Rebuild's mechanics as we did about NGE's because certain lines and events on which we relied for our knowledge about NGE never happened in Rebuild.
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby ElMariachi » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:17 am

Kaworu specifically called the AT Field the "impenetrable barrier of the soul" in NGE, and the CI confirmed that an Evangelion needed a soul inside the core to function, whether it's of the pilot's mother and a random dude.

I admit, there is a possibility that the rule is different in Rebuild, after all we don't even know if there is something in the others Evas' core and the pilots were shown to be able to go from one Eva to another without problem.
But then if a simple copy of the body was enough to make fresh clone an Angel/Impact Trigger, then why didn't SEELE just made two copies of Kaworu to pilot EVA-13 instead of taking the hassle to kidnap Shinji right under WILLE's nose, getting their attention focused on what they are doing in neo-NERV?

And on a narrative level, wouldn't the impact of their relationship in Q be greatly diminished if we learn that the Kaworu we saw was not the "true" Kaworu, but a copy with fake memories? That would mean that even Shinji's last friend in the world was just a fake created by Gendo to manipulate his son, like Rei Q was a fake of his past loved one! :cringe:
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:46 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Kaworu specifically called the AT Field the "impenetrable barrier of the soul" in NGE, and the CI confirmed that an Evangelion needed a soul inside the core to function, whether it's of the pilot's mother and a random dude.

Indeed he did, but the power of that AT Field as a weapon and tool was clearly determined by the body, or else each and every Eva would have had an AT Field as weak and useless as any human's.
I admit, there is a possibility that the rule is different in Rebuild, after all we don't even know if there is something in the others Evas' core and the pilots were shown to be able to go from one Eva to another without problem.

It seems pretty clear that things are definitely different in Rebuild. For example, there is a bridge bunny screen (in Jo or Ha) where the AT Field of the Eva is denoted as originating from the entry plug itself, which indicates the possibility that the AT Field that is projected by the Eva is actually that of the pilot. Furthermore, Yui is described in Q as having become Eva-01's "control system", which could mean that she is not the source of its AT Field and that in fact no other Eva has or needs a human soul other than the pilot.
But then if a simple copy of the body was enough to make--

I'll just copy a link to the response I made in the other topic: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/665480/Theory-about-the-coffins-Kaworu-and-the-EVA-universe/#665480
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

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Postby Ray » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:25 pm

Maybe its one of the great lakes in North America, or the Mediterranean. I remember seeing a map of the Evangelion world where inland lakes and seas like the Mediterranean and the black sea are still blue.

Seriously would it kill Anno to okay a Manga, 20 minute OVA, or a 3.0 extended cut to fill in at least a few of the gaps?
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:14 pm

^
Wait, what are you talking about?
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Ray » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:49 pm

In the "next time" preview the ocean is blue instead of Red.

Also, I want to see a Manga or Interquel that will fill in the gap of what happened between 2.0 and 3.0. all were asking for is a hint of truth, not lies or misinformation.
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Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:02 pm

^
Oh, I see.
Well there's two hypothesis about that blue water :
1/ it's a blooper from Khara. It happens even to the best, after all they left a shot of Shinji's DSS Choker magically disappearing in 3.0.

2/ the scene happens in a closed and/or artificial lake.

I'm curious to see the map you're talking about, do you remember where did you saw it?
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger


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