The Idiot Ball in Q - Lazy Writing or Thematically Poignant?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:48 pm

View Original PostCharsi wrote:Absolutely none of these are excuses not to plan. Being caught blindsided that there's a pilot inside when you retrieve an Eva from orbit requires a pretty large idiot ball. And that's just one of my issues. Even if it IS an Angel you should have a story ready.

This. After all, 14-year-old boys have a pretty consistent track record of surviving in space for an extra 14 years without food, water, or even while possibly not having a human body and no told method of regaining said human body.

Wait.... :chinscratch:
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Postby kboyrulez12345 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:01 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:This. After all, 14-year-old boys have a pretty consistent track record of surviving in space for an extra 14 years without food, water, or even while possibly not having a human body and no told method of regaining said human body.

Wait.... :chinscratch:


It still begs the question as, if Willie didn't know that Shinji was alive in Unit-01, why did Asuka call out his name in the beginning of the movie?
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Postby Azathoth » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:08 pm

Probably because Asuka, who did not witness Shinji's transformation or Unit 01's pseudo-ascension at all, has less reason to think of Shinji as gone. And as I've already said in this thread, I feel it's implicit that Asuka, unlike the rest of WILLE, felt that recovering Shinji should be a higher priority than it was.

e: like, consider how difficult it must have been for Misato/Ritsuko to explain the end of Ha to Asuka. "well, then Unit 01 turned bright red and a giant glowing naked Rei tongue-kissed her core and then the world exploded and everyone turned into giant headless red Evas made of core, except not us, apparently. then some gay kid floated down from the moon and impaled Shinji from behind with his spear, which is now yours, by the way."

Incidentally, and maybe a question for another thread -- that is the Lance of Cassius that Unit 02' uses to cut a path to Wunder's engine, right? Cause if so, how on Earth did Asuka get that thing?
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:24 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:This is an important comment. 3.0 can be read as a reaction to the audience' reaction to Shinji's actions at the end of the preceding film. I think that when the preview made, the plan was for a much shorter gap and a film where Shinji was mostly absent while the rest of the cast dealt with the consequences of his actions, but somewhere along the line it was decided that the audience was too supportive of Shinji and needed a harsh lesson in the form of an entire movie hamfistedly belaboring how much of a self absorbed asshole he is.

We don't even know if the difference between the 2.0 preview and what we actually got in Q was due to Anno changing the plot mid-way in Q's production or if he planned it since the beginning, in a post-Q interview of Kaworu's VA, he said that Anno revealed only to him between the VA staff a very important plot point of Q, implying rather heavily that Anno planned the time skip since the beginning.

If he really made the time skip because people misinterpreted Shinji's actions at the end of the movie, then he was really clumsy : it's pretty hard to feels Shinji as a self absorbed asshole when he didn't had any idea that 3I was being triggered by trying to save Rei, hell he didn't even know that an Evangelion could cause an Impact!

He has many flaws : tendency to close himself to others when things don't go the way he likes, extreme stubbornness(like when he resigned after Bardiel or when he pulled out the spears), is tendency to run away from the hardships instead of facing his problem, but a self absorbed asshole he isn't(he spent half of 2.0 taking care of Rei and cooking meals for Misato and Asuka!), for that kind of people you should look to Gendo who willingly forsake the world for his own plan.

View Original PostConspicuous wrote:To be fair, I sincerely doubt that WILLE had any idea about the fact that NERV had a Magic Space
Jesus who could remove the collar in the first place. If they did, they wouldn't ever had bothered creating such a device against him in the first place.
It's safe to assume that they had very good reason to believe that the only people who could remove the collar would be Misato.

The DSS Choker was specifically built for Kaworu, and WILLE had it with them, besides his entrance was very remarkable with preventing the end of mankind and all, so they mus know about him!
As for the DSS Choker, maybe they thought that Kaworu wouldn't be able to take it off and he hided his AT Field electronic Hax power to them, or he DSS Choker suppress part of his powers and prevent him from taking it off from himself, after all one of the Choker function is called "Suppression Function", id made of Angel Sealing glyphs and had the same red glow and humming sound that the Angel Sealing Pillars.


View Original PostConspicuous wrote:Also, we already know that Yui's allegiance to Gendo specifically is pretty questionable, after she rejected him and his Dummy Plug. Whatever her goals may be, they are not the exact same as Gendo's. So while she may end up aiding Gendo's plans and going against WILLE, it's only because of her personal wishes, not because she's actually following Gendo for his sake.

As for Yui and Gendo, even if they have the same plans that don't mean that they can't have any conflicts : Yui rejecting the Dummy Plug could be her way to tell him that he has gone too far in his management of the Bardiel crisis, or maybe her significance that she wants that Shinji is the one who will Awake EVA-01 and nothing else, since it entails the pilot getting absorbed inside the core, that way he and Rei would be safe from the later unavailable confrontation against SEELE... well until whatever that wrecked the world happened that made EVA-01 ends up in low orbit and Shinji required back on Earth and in human form to awake another Evangelion.

@ kboyrulez12345 : Maybe Asuka called out for Shinji because she thought that even if he had gone past the point of no-return and can't come back as a human(like Yui), at least there is a chance that he became part of the Eva's Control System and could go berserk or something like Yui did 14 years ago to save her ass, and apparently that's exactly what happened!

@ Azathoth : your theory could also be right, maybe Asuka thought that if WILLE somehow manages to make recover Shinji's human form, she could have someone to relate to : after these 14 years inside EVA-01, he will be treated like a potential Angel... like it probably happened with her when she woke up from her coma with a glowing left eye. That would be why she seemed to be the one who was the most pissed off by Shinji escaping the Wunder with Mark.09 : she felt betrayed by him who ran away from his problem(as least that's from her point of view)

Secondly we are not even sure that what happened at the end of 2.0 is what wrecked the world, Kaworu's explanations are filled with contradictions.

Finally the lance Asuka used was already discussed and the script gave us the answer : that was not the Lance of Cassius, but a weapon called an "Heat Lance".
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Postby Azathoth » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:36 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:If he really made the time skip because people misinterpreted Shinji's actions at the end of the movie, then he was really clumsy : it's pretty hard to feels Shinji as a self absorbed asshole when he didn't had any idea that 3I was being triggered by trying to save Rei, hell he didn't even know that an Evangelion could cause an Impact!

He has many flaws : tendency to close himself to others when things don't go the way he likes, extreme stubbornness(like when he resigned after Bardiel or when he pulled out the spears), is tendency to run away from the hardships instead of facing his problem, but a self absorbed asshole he isn't(he spent half of 2.0 taking care of Rei and cooking meals for Misato and Asuka!), for that kind of people you should look to Gendo who willingly forsake the world for his own plan.


Oh my god, he cooks for others?! What a compassionate and unselfish human being! Really though, virtually the entire point of Q is that Shinji still hasn't gotten sick of attempting to return to the womb. The last scene of Ha is as damning a portrait of Shinji as Anno has ever presented; back when I was still trying to watch these movies under the impression that Shinji was supposed to be sympathetic, I absolutely couldn't think what Anno was trying to say with it. The only way the scene makes sense, especially in the context of Q, is if you assume that the entire point is that Shinji is being both stupid (wielding Eva selfishly without any idea of the consequences of his actions) and an asshole ("I don't care about the world!"). The context to which I refer is that Q deliberately strips away the excuse behind which he's always been able to hide - that he's just a baka trying his best - and flat-out says to him, "all this happened because you were an asshole, Shinji, and your attempts to fix it are doomed to failure because they're the exact same kind of asshole behavior". And lo and behold, they absolutely are. Shinji's a seriously fucked individual, and cooking food doesn't really outweigh the fact that he has now begun the apocalypse for selfish and borderline delusional reasons in three of the last four movies in which his character has appeared.
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Postby Conspicuous » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:39 pm

I think that the big problem is that we expect WILLE to have watched the original series or be otherwise familiar with the narrative structure and its expectations.
Honestly, while lying to Shinji may have stopped him from insulting them during his escape, it would've only blown up in their face later, since the realization that they strapped a bomb and lied to him about it would only hamper further cooperation.
They are supposed to be the good guys, after all, and the good guys don't manipulate people to their liking.

Just about the only thing they really should've done is told him that Gendo was cloning Reis for a while now, and while that wouldn't stop him from escaping with Rei Q, it would put them in a better position to call out Shinji for his shit later on.

Either way, there's little doubt that much of the crew has pretty strong emotions regarding Shinji, and it's fairly plausible that keeping themselves as distanced from him as possible while treating him gruffly would be the best way for them to keep their emotions in check until they simmer down somewhat. They never really got the chance to adjust to them either, since Shinji was only on the Wunder for a short while.

@ElMariachi
I thought that the narrative of 2.0 made it pretty clear that Shinji was exceptionally selfish when Ritsuko started to talk about how what Unit-01 is doing is all a result of the wish of a single person, though. The audience misunderstanding it is certainly a failure to properly convey it, but I see little reason to doubt that while Shinji may have been technically unaware, he genuinely cared for Ayanami over the rest of the world, just like dear old dad.

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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:05 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Oh my god, he cooks for others?! What a compassionate and unselfish human being! Really though, virtually the entire point of Q is that Shinji still hasn't gotten sick of attempting to return to the womb. The last scene of Ha is as damning a portrait of Shinji as Anno has ever presented; back when I was still trying to watch these movies under the impression that Shinji was supposed to be sympathetic, I absolutely couldn't think what Anno was trying to say with it. The only way the scene makes sense, especially in the context of Q, is if you assume that the entire point is that Shinji is being both stupid (wielding Eva selfishly without any idea of the consequences of his actions) and an asshole ("I don't care about the world!"). The context to which I refer is that Q deliberately strips away the excuse behind which he's always been able to hide - that he's just a baka trying his best - and flat-out says to him, "all this happened because you were an asshole, Shinji, and your attempts to fix it are doomed to failure because they're the exact same kind of asshole behavior". And lo and behold, they absolutely are. Shinji's a seriously fucked individual, and cooking food doesn't really outweigh the fact that he has now begun the apocalypse for selfish and borderline delusional reasons in three of the last four movies in which his character has appeared.

Oh yes, he fought alone on close-quarter the Angel that obliterated all of Tokyo-3's defenses and an experimented Eva pilot and got impaled to the point of coughing one liter of blood to save Rei, what a selfish prick!

As for his line that "he don't care about the world", it doesn't mean that he was really ready to destroy the world to save Rei(he sad it flatly in Q that he never wanted to destroy the world, just to save Rei), but that he fought for his own reasons instead of for the sake of the world or other concepts like that. And tell you what, that exactly how Misato told him to behave, and was even cheering on him to act following his own wishes and not for the others.

Kinda hypocrite after all to tell him how much of an asshole he was when he just acted like she pushed him to do since 1.0.

And what was the alternative : letting Zeruel frying them in the Command Center and hug Lilith? Yeah sure that it would have been far better!

If Shinji was really an asshole, he would have triggered Instrumentality in 3.0 on WILLE's out of spite for accusing him to wreck the world(if it's even what they are accusing him to do), like he did in EoE. Instead of that, he jumped at the first hope of fixing everything, of course he had personal reasons to do that(to be forgiven by everyone) but he also said that he was doing that for Kaworu and everyone's sake.

Shinji's big problem is that he's so stubborn that once he get an idea in his head, there is almost nothing that can changes his mind. And it indeed led to catastrophes : N4I and Kaworu's death could have been prevented had he just listened to his warnings, but you're making him look like an even worst person that Gendo!


View Original PostConspicuous wrote:@ElMariachi
I thought that the narrative of 2.0 made it pretty clear that Shinji was exceptionally selfish when Ritsuko started to talk about how what Unit-01 is doing is all a result of the wish of a single person, though. The audience misunderstanding it is certainly a failure to properly convey it, but I see little reason to doubt that while Shinji may have been technically unaware, he genuinely cared for Ayanami over the rest of the world, just like dear old dad.

Well, Ritsuko make it look like Shinji was completely conscious of what was happening and consciously accepted it as the price to save Rei, but 3.0 showed us that it wasn't the case : he never wanted to destroy the world not was he ever aware that an Impact was happening. His actions can't be chalked as selfish when he was thinking that he was just saving Rei and had any idea idea that some price was being paid for that.
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Postby Na7e » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:41 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:As for his line that "he don't care about the world", it doesn't mean that he was really ready to destroy the world to save Rei


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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:50 pm

So for you, the lyrics of Betrayal means that Shinji befriending Kaworu and having him killed in front of Shinji was a sort of karmic retribution from Karma for what happened 14 years ago?
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Postby Na7e » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:05 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:So for you, the lyrics of Betrayal means that Shinji befriending Kaworu and having him killed in front of Shinji was a sort of karmic retribution from Karma for what happened 14 years ago?


No, Shinji already recieved his retribution for his actions at the end of 2.0. Because he was willing to end the world for Rei...he gets to take a 14 year timeout.

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Postby Conspicuous » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:41 pm

...And learn nothing from the ordeal, while Asuka was forced to make Odin's Bargain during her Deep Eva Encounter and suffer through karmic repercussions on pretty most every aspect of her personality for the next fourteen years.

Really, Shinji got off lightly for destroying the world, and managed to only ruin more stuff shortly after he returned. Guess that's what WILLE got for not treating him like a little kid.

Honestly, this was probably the biggest factor in Asuka's treatment of Shinji during the fight. After all that, and he hasn't learned a single thing.

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Postby Charsi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:35 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:This. After all, 14-year-old boys have a pretty consistent track record of surviving in space for an extra 14 years without food, water, or even while possibly not having a human body and no told method of regaining said human body.

Wait.... :chinscratch:


And yet the brief awakening of Eva-01 during Operation US was laid at Shinji's feet and used as partial justification for the collar around his neck.

How does that even work?

As for the later posts, I agree with Conspicuous. Shinji got off easy, because he wasn't even aware of time passing and hasn't aged a day. It was everyone else that got screwed.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:06 am

View Original PostConspicuous wrote:..
Really, Shinji got off lightly for destroying the world, and managed to only ruin more stuff shortly after he returned. Guess that's what WILLE got for not treating him like a little kid.
He is partly the reason for the world's end. (Lilith is the main)

And i think they threat him as both adult, and kid. (The fact that he's/looks like a kid is his "life protection armor" That's why he got off easily, and maybe the fact that he didn't know anything was also one of the reasons why he got off easily...)

Also, about ruining stuff: He managed to cause damage only to the Tokyo and it's surroundings. (Not counting Kaworu) Wille were able to stop the 4th impact and they didn't lose anyone in Wille or those who live elsewhere. So Wille were able to fix their "mistakes", when it comes to Shinji, by canceling the apocalypse. (It was quite understandable why they couldn't handle him differently)

It was everyone else that got screwed.
Well, after N4I both Shinji and Wille are now on the same line: Both have lost important people, had bad experiences ect.
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:31 am

View Original PostConspicuous wrote:...And learn nothing from the ordeal, while Asuka was forced to make Odin's Bargain during her Deep Eva Encounter and suffer through karmic repercussions on pretty most every aspect of her personality for the next fourteen years.

Really, Shinji got off lightly for destroying the world, and managed to only ruin more stuff shortly after he returned. Guess that's what WILLE got for not treating him like a little kid.

Honestly, this was probably the biggest factor in Asuka's treatment of Shinji during the fight. After all that, and he hasn't learned a single thing.

And what tell us that Asuka adapted herself to this new world immediately? She had 14 years to change her behavior, it's perfectly possible that during the first years she utterly refused to learn and change.
Shinji had barely hours before being extracted by neo-NERV and deposited on Gendo's feet, who then proceeded to manipulate him to insanity before throwing him like an useless tool.

You can't expect from Shinji to have the equivalent of Asuka's 14 years of characters development in one week and a crazy master manipulator behind his back!


View Original PostCharsi wrote:And yet the brief awakening of Eva-01 during Operation US was laid at Shinji's feet and used as partial justification for the collar around his neck.

How does that even work?

As for the later posts, I agree with Conspicuous. Shinji got off easy, because he wasn't even aware of time passing and hasn't aged a day. It was everyone else that got screwed.

As it was hypothetized earlier, it's possible that WILLE thought that Shinji is now EVA-01's control System alongside Yui, and that's why it responded to Asuka's call for help, but when they retrieved the entry plug it turned out that meanwhile the Eva materialized Shinji back in human form, taking everyone completely by surprise.

As for the second part of your post, maybe he got off easy by being safely tanged in space, but you're talking like it's the end of the story : even if he got 14 years easy now he's back, the world is still this seemingly endless shitty hellhole, there isn't any quick fix on sight, meaning that the rebuilding of the wold will take many years, probably even generations, and Shinji will have to live the rest of his life, the extra 14 years he was tanged included, sharing the same hardships than everyone else, and maybe even longer if he is too victim of the curse of Eva.
And he also has to pay for N3I(even if it wasn't what destroyed the world and that he has truly nothing to do with it, he was still pretty close at the end of 2.0 and would have done it had Kaworu not intervened), but also now N4I(this time completely his fault), the destruction of EVA-02, one of WILLE's greatest assets(he better pray that they found away to repair it), and on a personal level has Kaworu's blood in his hands.

And the crew of WILLE still hates him for whatever reason, everyone he cared for his dead and he lost the little trust the ones who are alive could have still have for him(and seeing their treatment of him, they already trusted him for almost nothing), and even Sakura will probably be mighty pissed for him not listening to her plea.

And as the icing on the cake, he can't do the only thing he more or less know to do to help them on a military level(piloting the Eva) since there is not any Eva available and his condition as an Impact Trigger make this option impossible.

Shinji is in for very rough times, he will have to work tirelessly for a long time to gain back a silver of thrust and prove them that he changed, and even then there will be little he could do to make up for his fuck-ups since his military value outside of piloting Evas is null.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:25 am

View Original Postkboyrulez12345 wrote:It still begs the question as, if Willie didn't know that Shinji was alive in Unit-01, why did Asuka call out his name in the beginning of the movie?

Asuka wasn't the one putting the collar on Shinji. Part of the problem with identifying whether or not something "begs the question" is that we don't yet know the different perspectives of the characters. We just know that in some cases, they might be different.

Like when Asuka turns to Misato as says "Isn't that right, Captain Katsuragi?" It seems clear that her perspective in things is different from Misato's we just don't know how yet. My statement doesn't "beg a question" inasmuch as it points out how little we know about Misato, Asuka and Ritsuko. We just know about Shinji's emotions in the moment, and they are very much like most of the people's arguments in this very thread, asking "Why is everyone so mean to Shinji? They're all clueless! Giant Idiot Balls..."

In fact, I think this thread's title can replace "The Idiot Ball" with Shinji's line "Clueless," and the answer to it's own question would make itself more clear. Misato and the rest of Wille may not be clueless about how to deal with Shinji, as Shinji accuses them of being in the beginning of Q, in as much as both Shinji and much of the viewers are clueless as to why they're treating him in this manner.

In order to answer the question of the "Idiot Ball" or who's really "Clueless," you need to look outside of Shinji's character in Q. I don't think anyone here in this thread has tried to do that yet.
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:35 am

Well, the problem is that it's very difficult to look outside of Shinji's character in Q since the hole narrative is centered on him, we almost don't have any clues of what were WILLE's true intentions with Shinji, or what they accuse him to do, or what they think he could be...

We only have hints here and there that could mean many, and of course that's exactly what Anno intended to have us as confused as Shinji and don't know who to trust, and help us to identify with Shinji : had we know since he beginning everything about WILLE's intentions, thus knowing that Shinji's later plans were doomed to fail, we would never be able to feel his pain as much as how it happened in Q.

And for WILLE there wasn't any Idiot Ball at the beginning of the movie : WILLE took their time with Shinji because they thought(not without reasons) that they had this time and that neo-NERV wouldn't be interested in him. At the moment Mark.09 arrived Misato already said something that doomed them in Shinji's eyes("Rei is no more"... cue Rei Q appearing in "EVA-00") but didn't had the time to continue to explain everything that would help Shinji make sense of everything.
It was "destiny".(or Gendo spied on them)


No, if there was an Idiot Ball, it was at the end of the movie, and collectively held by Shinji for no listening to Kaworu's pleas to don't touch the spears, Kaworu for not better explaining before sortieing why they absolutely need a LoL and a LoC, and not two LoL, and Asuka for acting like a raging berserker and not trying a single second to explain to Shinji why he shouldn't touch these spears, even thought he was willing to talk.

And of course, that too was planned by Gendo who maximized his chances of Shinji holding the Idiot Ball by bringing him insane with guilt and desperate for atonement, to the point of delusion.

And all of this was planned by Anno to serve Q's theme of failures of communication and the ravages it could do.
In a sense Misato herself foreshadowed this situation in 2.0 when she told to Shinji to stay living with her and Asuka because what the pilots lacks is communication.(she even said the word in English to bring attention to it)
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Postby pwhodges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:09 am

Wow. I go on holiday, and on my return this is what I find! Sure, I would have had plenty to say earlier if I'd been here; but now most possibilities seem to have been covered, and as usual without any convincing resolution.

Looking over the thread from outside, it seems that there is still the major conflict that most discussions about Q (and even the end of Ha) seem to have, between those who believe that the film should be interpreted with the characters apparently having full hindsight, and those who try to see it from the characters' point of view knowing only what is realistic for them to know.

I wouldn't dare to try to split up everything that's been said along those lines, but will content myself with taking sides on one point. Wille did not expect to have to deal with Shinji. At the end of Ha they (not yet as Wille, of course) realised he was reaching the point of no return, and even told him so, but he continued - they already would have feared he was gone. When Unit-01 was recovered and placed in the tesseract in orbit, surely the first thing that would have been done would have been to check that he really was gone or inaccessible, because if they could possibly have removed him at that point, they would have wanted to - what could be more important than removing the Impact Trigger from the Eva if they could?!

So by the time Wille came to kidnap Unit-01, they already knew that Shinji was gone. Asuka's call out in the fight was no more than an instinctive reversion to an old habit in extremis, perhaps even to be viewed as a means of giving herself more courage - and she was as surprised and shocked as anyone when there was a response. That response might have been enough to cause them then to look inside for Shinji, not knowing what they would find, and (as we see from the labels and tests) not being sure what they actually had found. And meanwhile they had no time to prepare for the new contingency of having to handle this unexpected corporeal manifestation, leading to all the cack-handed mismanagement that we see.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:49 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:No, if there was an Idiot Ball, it was at the end of the movie, and collectively held by Shinji for no listening to Kaworu's pleas to don't touch the spears, Kaworu for not better explaining before sortieing why they absolutely need a LoL and a LoC, and not two LoL, and Asuka for acting like a raging berserker and not trying a single second to explain to Shinji why he shouldn't touch these spears, even thought he was willing to talk.

Funny thing (as said before by someone) is that these are not out of character actions. :P

God this film is masterfully build. How many times i need to say this....?
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Why would it be a habit, though? Weren't they in one fight together, where she was yelling at the others to get out of the way?
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Postby pwhodges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:37 pm

It's the weakest point, I admit. But I can't accept that she thought he was piloting at that point. They had trained and lived together for a short while, and she could have been calling out as she might have done during the Bardiel battle, in which case of course he failed to respond. That he appeared to respond this time would thus have been all the greater a shock.

Or perhaps her post-Bardiel angelic powers detected that there would be a response! :devil:
Last edited by pwhodges on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)


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