Touji & Kensuke in Eva-01, ep 3: Got a problem with it?

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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:58 am

View Original PostJurrasic wrote:So in conclusion, this is Eva, not everything has to make sense, but this scene makes far too little sense for me. :facepalm:

Why can't it work the way it's shown? There is nothing like the Eva or the entry plug system in the real world, so on what do you base your assumptions about how they should work? I mean, what if it actually could work that way? What if someone were to come in here right now and post some lengthy explanation of how a wireless neural interface system like that could actually work that way in real life, and then it means that the work was unfairly maligned for being "inaccurate" and "stupid shit" when in fact it was a very realistic portrait of how such a system might work?

Just to illustrate, consider depictions of the coldness of space in fiction. "Space is cold", they say. Some works of fiction, in the name of being "realistic", or rather what people think is "realistic", therefore depict people and things that get jettisoned out into space as flash-freezing, such as what happens to water in one scene in Macross... when in fact, that is completely inaccurate, because in space, the only way to get rid of heat is through radiation because of the vacuum, and so in fact heat buildup is actually a big problem for spacecraft.

Can't you imagine someone going on a tirade on some forum about how stupid some scene or moment was in some movie or series because "That guy who got pushed out the airlock should have frozen immediately, because space is cold, idiots!"? And isn't that just so terribly unfair to the work? What's an author supposed to do?

And this thing we're talking about now is not even a real system! There are no Evas, there are no entry plugs, there is no LCL, so where do we get off saying that this fictitious system operating wirelessly through a fictitious substance to communicate with a fictitious alien god-being is doing it wrong?

Should not our reaction be instead to take what we see and draw our conclusions from it, rather than applying our preconceived conclusions to it and calling it "stupid shit" for not conforming?
Last edited by Monk Ed on Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jurrasic » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:37 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Why can't it work the way it's shown? There is nothing like the Eva or the entry plug system in the real world, so on what do you base your assumptions about how they should work? I mean, what if it actually could work that way? What if someone were to come in here right now and post some lengthy explanation of how a wireless neural interface system like that could actually work that way in real life, and then it means that the work was unfairly maligned for being "inaccurate" and "stupid shit" when in fact it was a very realistic portrait of how such a system might work?

Just to illustrate, consider depictions of the coldness of space in fiction. "Space is cold", they say. Some works of fiction, in the name of being "realistic", or rather what people think is "realistic", therefore depict people and things that get jettisoned out into space as flash-freezing, such as what happens to water in one scene in Macross... when in fact, that is completely inaccurate, because in space, the only way to get rid of heat is through radiation because of the vacuum, and so in fact heat buildup is actually a big problem for spacecraft.

Can't you imagine someone going on a tirade on some forum about how stupid some scene or moment was in some movie or series because "That guy who got pushed out the airlock should have frozen immediately, because space is cold, idiots!"? And isn't that just so terribly unfair to the work? What's an author supposed to do?


/shrug what else are these forums for? We're all obsessive nerds here, let's be honest. :D

It could work, it could not work. For me personally, I have to invoke MST3K mantra to enjoy this particular episode, otherwise it's a massive wall-banger for me.

For you, not so much. ;)
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:49 pm

View Original PostK40s wrote:What bothered me about that scene was that isn't Eva-01 grabbing Shamshel by the tentacles when they half eject the entry plug so Toji and Kensuke enter it? Wouldn't that cut synchronization with the Eva turning it off? How is Eva-01 still struggling with Shamshel with the pilot disconnected?

Misato mentions something about "holding the Eva on current commands". It's possible that the Eva's motions are wholly or completely mechanically controlled or assisted, allowing Nerv to loop the synaptic/synchronisation signals. Whatever this ability is, it later appears in #18 during the Bardiel incident, where Eva-01 has several seconds of static struggling before the dummy system winds up.

This may have been the reason that this scene was kept in Rebuild. Or it could just be that they still had the keyframes BANK handy.
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Postby ICTimer » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:08 am

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Misato mentions something about "holding the Eva on current commands". It's possible that the Eva's motions are wholly or completely mechanically controlled or assisted, allowing Nerv to loop the synaptic/synchronisation signals. Whatever this ability is, it later appears in #18 during the Bardiel incident, where Eva-01 has several seconds of static struggling before the dummy system winds up.

This may have been the reason that this scene was kept in Rebuild. Or it could just be that they still had the keyframes BANK handy.


I just re-watched the scene, frame-by-frame, and this is in the upper left-hand corner of the screen right as Toji and Kensuke seem to have gotten into the entry plug:

SPOILER: Show
Image


That seems to back up the dialogue in the scene. To me, it makes sense. The process of activating an Eva is complex - if you were smart in designing the computer interface, you'd want a way to suspend operation in case of exigent circumstances during battle - a mode where you don't completely shut things down, but can just make some minor adjustments (in this case, allowing a couple of slack-jawed yokels into the entry plug qualifies as a minor adjustment). Even if SEELE and NERV know what should happen in battle, they need failsafes/backups.

Of course, I'm left wondering who exactly sends the signal to go into Suspend Mode. It's probably NERV, because Unit 01 will usually do what NERV asks unless there's a good reason not to (aka I'ma go berserk on that thing, Shinji's fine OR hey Gendo, the dummy system is bullshit).
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Postby Jurrasic » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:08 pm

View Original PostICTimer wrote:Of course, I'm left wondering who exactly sends the signal to go into Suspend Mode. It's probably NERV, because Unit 01 will usually do what NERV asks unless there's a good reason not to (aka I'ma go berserk on that thing, Shinji's fine OR hey Gendo, the dummy system is bullshit).


My guess is that it triggers automatically when an Entry Plug ejects from it's socket when the Eva is still under power. This would make sense as a safety measure if the escape rockets are not triggered or they fail to fire, this will allow the pilot to escape and not be crushed by a 40 foot tall cyborg falling on him. :cringe:
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Postby ICTimer » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:35 pm

View Original PostJurrasic wrote:My guess is that it triggers automatically when an Entry Plug ejects from it's socket when the Eva is still under power. This would make sense as a safety measure if the escape rockets are not triggered or they fail to fire, this will allow the pilot to escape and not be crushed by a 40 foot tall cyborg falling on him. :cringe:


Agreed, but then who sends the order to eject the plug?

Okay, maybe that's a bit of a chicken/egg thing.
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Postby Jurrasic » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:33 pm

View Original PostICTimer wrote:Agreed, but then who sends the order to eject the plug?

Okay, maybe that's a bit of a chicken/egg thing.


I would assume that just like a modern military aircraft, that decision is up to the pilot while in combat.

Actually, I think I remember NERV trying to force-eject Shinji's plug when he threw a temper tantrum and started stomping the NERV pyramid, but that the signal was overridden by the pilot. (or was it rejected by the Eva? gotta re-watch.)

But at this point it looks like both pilot and command could signal an eject, but the pilot has final say.
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