TMBounty_Hunter wrote:http://wiki.evageeks.org/Warships_in_Evangelion

Ah, no I meant the claim that "Anno named Rei, Asuka and Mari after the Ayanami-class destroyers of the JMSDF due to their changed roles." Call me blind but I can't seem to find it.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:This interview was brought up awhile ago, but from what I remember, that's not what Ishida was saying. Why would he reveal a huge secret that should be kept under wraps? Either Ishida was speaking in terms of NGE vs NME (the different "cycles") or metaphorically.

I agree. He may just be talking bout how Kaworu should act due to previous, non-canonical interpretations of him. Kinda like when Christian Bale and Chris Nolan ask how Batman should be portrayed "this time" in Batman Begins. It's the umpteenth time the viewers are seeing said character, and the directors and actors are wondering how the character should be presented "this time around," despite the fact that the character has only lived, and is currently living, a grand total of one time inside his universe.

Besides, you guys actually think Eva will go off-the-rails in the way you expect it to? We all kind of expected Lilith to be Adam in Dogma, kind of a vise-versa of the NGE switcheroo, and that never happened. Instead everyone was propelled 14 years into the future without any warning. What makes you guys possibly think you could have been getting warnings and clues about a sequel theory? And what makes you think that it'll go on exactly as you had planned it would?

CJD wrote:Ah, no I meant the claim that "Anno named Rei, Asuka and Mari after the Ayanami-class destroyers of the JMSDF due to their changed roles." Call me blind but I can't seem to find it.

http://www.gwern.net/docs/2010-crc
Here is it, look under Part 4 of the Anno interview. If you have a word-search on your browser, just type in "Ayanami" and it'll be the first hit.

It's not on the warships page because we'd all been going on the assumption that he continued to name Mari, Rei and Asuka after the original Fubuki-class destroyers Makinami, Ayanami and Shikinami and not their JMSDF namesakes. Which means that the warships page on the wiki has to be updated again.

Interesting, so Anno changed Asuka's name as well because he wanted to "modernize" the theme-naming reference to battleships, by giving them names from JMSDF battleships instead of from the old Japanese Imperial Navy, and since Mari and Rei's name referenced these more modern ships(a chance that the Ayanami-class is used by both navies!) he changed Asuka's second surname to make it fit as well.

And of course he don't know if that will be relevant in the movies, it ties with Tsurumaki'zs interview were he said that Anno likes to keep the more possibilities possible open so he could adapt his work to potential futures ideas, for example in 2.0 initially there was supposed to be a scene of a reunion between the SEELE monoliths that confirm that they are the ones who sabotaged EVA-04(although it was already heavily implied) and that they knew that by sending EVA-03 to Japan it would be infected by Bardiel during the trip, but did it anyway to weaken Gendo(they were on a cold war with him since he made Bethany base go boom), confirming that in NTE the SDSS are much more precise than in NGE, litteraly being a prophecy book, but Anno changed it to keep a part of mystery about it and change the culprits if he wanted to go in another direction.

Warships, not battleships. A battleship is a particular kind of warship with huge guns and very thick armor. Think of a battleship as like a dinosaur - huge, tough and very powerful in its own way, but also thoroughly unsuited to the modern world.

It's not much of a modernization, since the Ayanami-class themselves are old and out of service. More like "since the characters have been changed, we need to associate them with different ships".

ElMariachi wrote:for example in 2.0 initially there was supposed to be a scene of a reunion between the SEELE monoliths that confirm that they are the ones who sabotaged EVA-04(although it was already heavily implied) and that they knew that by sending EVA-03 to Japan it would be infected by Bardiel during the trip, but did it anyway to weaken Gendo(they were on a cold war with him since he made Bethany base go boom), confirming that in NTE the SDSS are much more precise than in NGE, litteraly being a prophecy book, but Anno changed it to keep a part of mystery about it and change the culprits if he wanted to go in another direction.

Where is this from? I don't remember this in the CRC.

UrsusArctos wrote:http://www.gwern.net/docs/2010-crc
Here is it, look under Part 4 of the Anno interview. If you have a word-search on your browser, just type in "Ayanami" and it'll be the first hit.

Thank ye.

Perhaps the rebuild films are all a cycle completely separate from eotv and eoe.

^ You are not the first to suggest that. In fact, it seems widely accepted as a possibility among non-sequel-theorists.

Again, a reminder! We need translations!

Here be pics, for those too lazy to look them up XD

ALREADY TRANSLATED:

Misato, Rei, Asuka, MARI, KAWORU (can be found in this very thread)

STILL MISSING:

(In Order of priority)


SAKURA (recent post on THAT BOARD suggests it's quite... interesting/controversity fuel)


Shinji:




Mosty translated, but that interesting-looking middle portion (between "So, I spent all of the "Part A" recording troubled by how horrifying that was, filled with feelings of anxiety and doubts." and "from now on you mostly have scenes with Kaworu") is still missing.


GENDO (PLZ DO THIS!):



FUYUTSUKI:


RITSUKO:

KOUJI (maybe something about his contact to Kaji is revealed):



MIDORI:



SUMIRE:


HIDEKI:


PLEASE do the new characters as well; It might give us background on them and the post TI world.

I saw the Sakura post on THAT BORD (it was beside a very gross henti,ugh), and if its true, then that blows my mind, And my shipping dreams waaa!

I keep planning on OCRing those for the wiki and reformatting what's already there but lazy keeps getting in the way.

PS: Instead of saying what you guys saw where can you maybe actually dig it up and repost it?

TMBounty_Hunter wrote:I keep planning on OCRing those for the wiki and reformatting what's already there but lazy keeps getting in the way.

PS: Instead of saying what you guys saw where can you maybe actually dig it up and repost it?

Sakura hates Shinji. Just like everyone else, she just hides it better

I'd like exact words/context before taking anything as gospel (especially considering the source ) - they might just be referring to the fact that she's obviously holding back some knee-jerk reaction anger, because her brother got turned into red crystal stuff and she's human, not a mary sue.

That would just make the fact that she's still trying to act like a civilized person and treat him fairly even more admirable, and would imply she things he deserves fairness, or recognizes the irrationality of her impulses - I mean, look at her reaction when he leaves. She can actually understand why.

This is quite distinct from harboring a profound hate and just putting on a forced mask.
That would mean that we'd have to interpret that character QUITE distinctly, perhaps as a desconstruction of the whole nice girl thing, an angel's face is tricky to wear constantly after all.


Either way, swift clarification would be nice.

Moonrunes? Anyone?

hui43210 wrote:Sakura hates Shinji. Just like everyone else, she just hides it better

That's not what I meant when I asked for the stuff to be reposted. I assumed they had a full and direct translation of at least the relevant question, not just some tl;dr claim.

Kendrix wrote:I'd like exact words/context before taking anything as gospel (especially considering the source ) - they might just be referring to the fact that she's obviously holding back some knee-jerk reaction anger, because her brother got turned into red crystal stuff and she's human, not a mary sue.

That would just make the fact that she's still trying to act like a civilized person and treat him fairly even more admirable, and would imply she things he deserves fairness, or recognizes the irrationality of her impulses - I mean, look at her reaction when he leaves. She can actually understand why.

This is quite distinct from harboring a profound hate and just putting on a forced mask.
That would mean that we'd have to interpret that character QUITE distinctly, perhaps as a desconstruction of the whole nice girl thing, an angel's face is tricky to wear constantly after all.


Either way, swift clarification would be nice.

Moonrunes? Anyone?

This is how I allways interpreted it, I want the real translation not the word of some guy on a chan site. Ethier way, should make for more discussions

In either case, there IS a crucial difference between anger and hate.

Yeah, anyone please clarify this, I'll go ask around for a full translation on /a. Not sure if it'll help, though. That's always kind of dependent on weird quantum phenomena.


EDIT: From That Board, apparently literal quotes:

Misato san is a superior who is worthy of respect and I look up to her very much. Anno san also said that I should show more respect to Misato san. But I became to dislike Shinji*laugh* I think Misato already tried her best, why did Shinji only think about himself? When I was doing the voice recording, this thought became more and more clear.

>……My voice should kept a balance between cute and clam, but when Shinji asked if he could took the choker away, Sakura said ”Absolutely not”, that scene was different. I recorded that line again and again, in the end, it was not cute or clam, but a voice full of hate……

>……When Shinji got up on the EVA, the emotion in her line “Haven’t you already done enough!” was not hate, but her fury at Shinji. I tried to not let these two emotion mix.

Looking for the full thing, there might still be something else in it that balances this somehow, or further clarification on how far this is how Anno told her to play the role, and how far it's the VAs personal opinion (there does seem to be a discrepancy here, as if Anno just intended for Sakura to be understandably awkward, and *Sawashiro* couldn't brink herself to like the guy, but I *have* previosly noticed a bit of a discrepance between that line about the choker and everything else. This could be Swashiro slipping up, or maybe that's just a result of not having the full text, and that was a brief look at the *real* Sakura...
On the other hand, there's this line where she attempts casual conversations, "Oh, an actual battle, that's scary. Let's stay here", and then there's her reaction to Asuka's assault... That looked like she's genuinely trying/concerned to some degree... or maybe that's just me, dunno.

Still, quite the contrast from the reactions "old" VAs. Then again, perhaps that was the effect that Anno was going for by bringing in new VAs, at least for the completely new characters. If Ise (Midoris VA) feels the same way, that sorta works in Anno's favor.)but... yeah. I'll have to do some thinking and rewatching, probably...
I mean, if she hates his guts, there must be some reason she bothered with the show. Just politeness doesn't cut it - Asuka can punch him in the face without anyone even *reacting*, hating at him is perfectly socially legitimate on the Wunder. Maybe it's just part of being a nurse, though... Nurses often have to make a nice face to a scene of doom, especially when you think of how many ppl must've died in that struggle. So maybe that's just a skill she has, the same way that Ritsuko is able to talk to Shinji and not freeze up because she's just able to be cold & dispassionate about things.

There are three whole pages, after all, so some of this must've been important to Anno. Still, from the current tendency of it, it's likely that I've just been made to eat every single "Do not diss the Sakura, it's just called self-control" I ever spat out.

*sigh* Where are the moonspeak-speakers when you need em?
I would be nice to have the full thing, if only for the sake of ultimate confirmation.

Either way, the whole "Sakura's supposed to greatly admire Misato" thing certainly provides a nice bit of background, and should dispell any suggestions that mantaining the loyalty of the bunch is any huge concern for Misato. To them, she's the inspiring boss lady who promised them hope; If the nemesis battle wasn't obvious enough, this is.
If anything, maybe a similar effect took place with the actual Wunder crew, and their loyalty to Misato added to their hate of Shinji - She doesn't even need (and probably didn't bother - it's not like her) to wilfully instigate it, it's enough if he's percieved as having betrayed her, or even just caused her trouble.

Even with the choker line, I felt Sakura looked and sounded more sympathetic with Shinji in a "I know this sucks, but theres nothing anybody can do now, u done fucked up" kind a way. When he goes with Rei, I can understand why anger would pull thru then.

I dunna know, sounds more like the actress hating Shinji instead of Sakura. Sakura does'nt seem to hate him, just is like, cautious of him I guess, and won't put up with his bullshit.

hui43210 wrote:I dunna know, sounds more like the actress hating Shinji instead of Sakura. Sakura does'nt seem to hate him, just is like, cautious of him I guess,

So it isn't all in my head. Still, the full text would help. Context can change everything, to either direction. There might be something like, "Anno-san ultimately approved of this", "He was aiming for X but my input of Y convinced him" or "I was picked for this and this reason", which could be Anno feeling she would add realism or have the right instincts, or Anno going for deliberate dissonance between character and actress (See also: Asuka voiced by eternal optimist, Rei voiced by impossibly hyper chick, Misato voiced by lady who used to be famous for doing the incorruptibly pure Sailor Moon), anywhere after or before that. You can take a lot of lines from these interviews out of context. Really, it's hard to believe that what little explanation we have for this clusterfuck has been so severely neglected. Like, weeks of us arguing away about Asuka's mental maturity before anyone cared to make the official statement available to us.

I'd already call "wont put up with the BS" too harsh, from things like... attempting normal conversation. She's really practicing restraint as much as you can possibly expect it from someone who got their family killed in a near-apocalyptic event and is confronted with a painfully clueless kid (if through no fault of his own) who might have had a chance to prevent this shit.
Even that line when he departs was more like, "Please, just no more senseless waste of life" than anything... personal.
Of course she's going to say such a thing with a certain intensity/firmness, near apocalypses are no laughing matter. From the subjective pissed-person Pov, he's sorta providing more reasons to be pissed by "walzing off with the enemy", so even if she were deliberately keeping the pissed person pov in check, it would get harder.
Or maybe her appearing to understand why he'd leave was just my misunderstanding and it was more a "oh please, everything but X" thing. The tone of voice could go either way.

There's a bit of dissapointment in the way she says "Ikari-san!" before that, but dissapointment would imply the existence of previous expectations. Or maybe it's just schock at the realization of what's happening.

Kendrix wrote:So it isn't all in my head. Still, the full text would help.

Ya I don't think its in your head, I too wonder how there are so many interviews with these actors/actress' and we haven't been able to get them translated? Nobody who could has had the time I suppose. I can't read Kanji unfortunately, nor do I know anyone who can.