4th Film Info (READ OP) + Speculation

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:22 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I'm pretty convinced he had a clear idea of what he wanted since 2.22, possibly even 1.11. Sure, somethings changed along the way when trying to fit those ideas into specific 90+ films, (what to do with Asuka, whether or not Shinji should "rescue" Rei, ect.) but most of those are just small details that don't seem to effect how Final Impact will turn out. Even in the original series Asuka had nothing to do with Instrumentality's implementation. Heck, Anno could have written Asuka Soryu to be a completely fun and charming girl who always had something encouraging and supportive to say to Shinji and Rei, and EoE still would have ended up with Rei forbidding Gendo to put his thing in her thing in order to cause impact.

The same seems to be true here. Instrumentality doesn't hinge on whether or not Asuka Shikinami has an eye-patch and feels the way she does toward Shinji. In fact, Instrumentality almost doesn't even seem to hinge on whether or not Shinji thought he rescued Rei at the end of 2.22 (which, IIRC, was one of the more drastic changes made to the story during one of the script rewrites). Sure, the characters do play an important role in preventing Impact (whatever we think they think it is), but it's no different within terms of plot progression than Asuka Soryu battling off Harpies in EoE. So now that these small but important character details are behind us, Anno can focus on the plot details he's had in mind this whole time.

I partially disagree with you here : it's true than in NGE ultimately the acts of the good guys(Kaji, Misato, Asuka...) were for naught and didn't had any incidence in Gendo's and SEELE's respective plot, the factor leading to their downfall being Rei choosing to ditch Gendo and giving the control over Instrumentality to Shinji, in a sense NGE was a Greek tragedy were fate(3I and Instrumentality) was unavoidable.
But here in NTE it's different, here the good guys are an organized faction with manpower and knowledge about what the bad guys are planning, and both factions are on an equal foot. And this time their action did had an influence on the plot : even if they were manipulated by Gendo(or at least he included their intervention in his plot), that doesn't change the fact that WILLE were pivotal in preventing 4I and SEELE's Instrumentality(or the closest thing to it that could be attained with two LoL instead of one LoL and one LoC), and by the look of the trailer, Gendo will have to fight them to attain his goals, were in NGE Misato and Ritsuko weren't even a threat to him.
As for Asuka, her role could be more important than in EoE : right now she's kind of Shinji's guardian, and has the double advantage of having a personal situation the closest to his(EVA pilot, Angel shenanigans with her body) and not having to be detached due to her duties, like Misato is. I'm sure that her relationship with Shinji will be pivotal into getting him back from the pit of endless despair he has fallen into. And well, he's the main protagonist and has a lot to make up for, so I don't see him moping in a corner for the whole film until a Deus give him the control of the Machina to have the last word of the story, I'm sure that he will have to act, to fight alongside WILLE to end this madness(whether WILLE want his help or not is another story)
You also have to take into account that what brought down Gendo's plan fail in EoE was the most unstable piece of his machination : Rei. But now Gendo don't seem to need Rei anymore, so if he manages to launch Final Impact, there is a good chance that nothing will be able to stop him this time, so he will have to be stopped before launching it.

What I'm trying to say is that while in NGE/EoE the bad guys were leading the dance without any opposition until the last moment where two persons made all the difference(Rei and later Shinji with just a decision) by pulling a Deus Ex Machina, here in NTE the good guys will need to fight to obtain their happy ending(or at least an ending not including tangification) and Shinji won't be able to do it by himself, this time the Lilin themselves will fight alongside him(under the form of WILLE), it will have to be a collaborative effort.
I don't think Anno took the time to create this whole new faction, representing mankind's will to built their own fate by themselves, creating a sort of "upgraded" Tokyo-3 able to move and fight(AAA Wunder), new armors for their EVAs and all this logistic just to have them ultimately being utterly irrelevant.
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Postby thegoodson » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:39 pm

Speculation based on watching 2.22 recently:

When Kaji is talking to Shinji about Misato at the ocean treatment facility he says something about Misato's father along the lines of "I think she might even have hated him. Despite that, he still saved her in the end." Now that's not verbatim and I can't get the Bluray going right now, but I'm wondering if at the last minute Gendo will have a change of heart and help his boy out.

Granted it would be the biggest "too little too late" move I could think of, and i have no earthly idea what outside of Yui's ghost shaming the shit out of him would lead Gendo to abandon a plan he's spent a good quarter of a century on. Despite this, maybe that's how he'll make amends. His grand plan goes into overdrive, things go awry, the man who has been in control the whole time loses it and finally sees the horror of his actions, and at the very end at least attempts to help Shinji.

I guess what I'm really wondering about Gendo's treatment in Final: will he ultimately stand as the example of an unsaveable man so devoted to his cause that he destroys everything with no redemption, or will he realize his wrongs at the end?

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Postby iihieiii » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:25 pm

View Original Postthegoodson wrote:Speculation based on watching 2.22 recently:

When Kaji is talking to Shinji about Misato at the ocean treatment facility he says something about Misato's father along the lines of "I think she might even have hated him. Despite that, he still saved her in the end." Now that's not verbatim and I can't get the Bluray going right now, but I'm wondering if at the last minute Gendo will have a change of heart and help his boy out.

Granted it would be the biggest "too little too late" move I could think of, and i have no earthly idea what outside of Yui's ghost shaming the shit out of him would lead Gendo to abandon a plan he's spent a good quarter of a century on. Despite this, maybe that's how he'll make amends. His grand plan goes into overdrive, things go awry, the man who has been in control the whole time loses it and finally sees the horror of his actions, and at the very end at least attempts to help Shinji.

I guess what I'm really wondering about Gendo's treatment in Final: will he ultimately stand as the example of an unsaveable man so devoted to his cause that he destroys everything with no redemption, or will he realize his wrongs at the end?


I think this kinda make sense...considering that Gendo (in his mind) are making the instrumentality to reunite his family back (Yui and Shinji) so they can be happy...

[and he only treat Shinji in that "cold" way because he is also afraid in get closer to other people (just like Shinji in NGE) other than hate him.]

...But.....lets agree that just make "the world end" (instrumentaly) only to reunite or be "happy" with your family (or more likely just to Yui) is just INSANE and SELFISH!

that being said...i don't think this should happend in the last film ( Gendo actually trying to help Shinji and make him happy)...cuz i believe his motives are more likely Selfish. (Yui)

Also... if that really happend should be a MIND BLOWN! LOL... But considering that Anno himself it's kinda "crazy"..it MIGHT happend LOL ( 0,00000001%) ;P

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Postby AlphaGamma » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:44 am

View Original Postiihieiii wrote:I think this kinda make sense...considering that Gendo (in his mind) are making the instrumentality to reunite his family back (Yui and Shinji) so they can be happy...

[and he only treat Shinji in that "cold" way because he is also afraid in get closer to other people (just like Shinji in NGE) other than hate him.]

I certainly wouldn't say that being cold and afraid to get closer to other people is a defining trait of NGEShinji. In fact he tries his "best" to be accepted/loved (and fails most of the time...). Maybe it would be more fitting for NGEAsuka or NGEGendo himself.

thegoodson wrote:When Kaji is talking to Shinji about Misato at the ocean treatment facility he says something about Misato's father along the lines of "I think she might even have hated him. Despite that, he still saved her in the end." Now that's not verbatim and I can't get the Bluray going right now, but I'm wondering if at the last minute Gendo will have a change of heart and help his boy out.

Ye, he does say something similar. But remember that Misato's hatred for her father shouldn't be compared to Shinji's hatred(?) for Gendo. I mean, Misato's father didn't really try to destroy the world on purpose... I'm pretty sure he wasn't a bad man, he just happened not to be able to make his family happy. The fact that he saves Misato wasn't a last minute change of heart, because he always loved her...

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I'm pretty convinced he had a clear idea of what he wanted since 2.22, possibly even 1.11. Sure, somethings changed along the way when trying to fit those ideas into specific 90+ films, (what to do with Asuka, whether or not Shinji should "rescue" Rei, ect.) but most of those are just small details that don't seem to effect how Final Impact will turn out. Even in the original series Asuka had nothing to do with Instrumentality's implementation. Heck, Anno could have written Asuka Soryu to be a completely fun and charming girl who always had something encouraging and supportive to say to Shinji and Rei, and EoE still would have ended up with Rei forbidding Gendo to put his thing in her thing in order to cause impact.

I seem to remember that Kaworu's VA said in his interview that he was alrdy aware of the timeskip. It seems likely that Anno alrdy had it in mind from the very beginning.
I've always found it interesting how Asuka's relevance to the plot (in NGE) is pretty much non-existent. Remember though, that during instrumentality in Eoe, it's Asuka/Shinji relationship that is mainly focused upon and also what influences Shinji the most (in his development) post episode 8. So, changing her personality would have probably changed many events in the story, because it would have made Shinji develop in different (more positive?) ways. That Shikinami was kinder and closer to Shinji certainly didn't seem to help in 2.0, but still...

thegoodson wrote:Maybe they're pushing to meet a winter 2013 deadline with 4 and bringing in a bunch more animators to make sure of it. Yep, gonna keep telling myself that

Well, they did say it was coming out in 2013 at first. That probably means that they had alrdy done some work on 4.0 (or they just picked a random date for the sake of it). 2013 seems to be too soon now, 2014 seems quite likely though. 3.0 is not a movie that can work if the sequel doesn't answer all (most of) the questions and i find it difficult to believe that the script was written without all the "answers" (4.0) in mind.

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Postby TruthfulLie » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:03 am

Even 2014 sounds soon to be honest. I hope I can see it as early as possible but yeah. What if Anno wants to make it 2015 for the 20th anniversary as well as the set date for the NGE? On top of that make it the last day of 2015, the date of Third Impact.(first day of 2016 really) Somehow I can see him doing it.

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Postby Stillborn » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:19 am

View Original PostTruthfulLie wrote:Even 2014 sounds soon to be honest. I hope I can see it as early as possible but yeah. What if Anno wants to make it 2015 for the 20th anniversary as well as the set date for the NGE? On top of that make it the last day of 2015, the date of Third Impact.(first day of 2016 really) Somehow I can see him doing it.


And to complete the similiarities and call backs, we get EoE repetition all over again :irked:
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Postby wiser3754 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:34 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:@ wiser3754 :
Firstly, that place "where the Lilin are" is a mistranslation, her phrase was actually "We'll go someplace where the Lilin can pick us up."

And that scenario is highly unlikely : Asuka seems very adamant that Shinji stops running away from his problems, and letting him flee the consequences of what he did in 3.0 just because he's probably afraid of Misato's and the other's reaction would go against that.

Besides even if she wanted to do it, she can't let him escape : Shinji is still an Impact Trigger, so letting him roaming free is an huge breach of security, and they are in the middle of a desert, not far from neo-NERV territory, I really doubt the survivors of mankind settled around, they will have to be picked up, whether by the Wunder or by a rescue team on choppers. Finally, Shinji completely lost his will to live, if Asuka let him go free, he will just sit in a corner on some ruin and wait to die, if Asuka want him to stay alive, she had to let him under the care of others, alone he can't survive in this new world(and don't even want to for the moment)


El Mariachi a quick question, before Mari ejects Shinji from EVA 13 she says, "And while you're at it, get to know the world a little/ or how I it works", what's your opinion/belief on this comment from her?
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:28 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:El Mariachi a quick question, before Mari ejects Shinji from EVA 13 she says, "And while you're at it, get to know the world a little/ or how I it works", what's your opinion/belief on this comment from her?

In my opinion, she's telling him to try to understand the others instead of staying so "me-centric", to quote thegoodson : "Shinji interprets every action from a perspective of how it affects him primarily.", he tends to fail to see the big picture, and that already led to catastrophes, pulling out the spears because he wanted to be loved again without taking into account the big picture(i.e. Kaworu and Asuka screaming at him to don't do it) being the latest and bigger one.

So what essentially Mari asks him is to stop wallowing in self-pity and actually try to understand what the others has gone through and see that he's not the only one to suffer. Yet that interpretation implies that Mari knows very well Shinji's psyche, which is odd since they only had two conversation at all, unless someone who figured him out talked about it with her(Kaji?).
That ties with her phrase just before to "stop being such a baby" and "You're a man, aren't you?!".

Although to be fair others people tends to neglect to explain to him anything about the big picture(Misato explained to him that he's fighting to protect Lilith and mankind only after Ramiel almost kills him!), and it's kinda hard to not fell in a pit of despair when you're declared guilty of mass genocide and destruction of the world...
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Postby AlphaGamma » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:45 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:In my opinion, she's telling him to try to understand the others instead of staying so "me-centric", to quote thegoodson : "Shinji interprets every action from a perspective of how it affects him primarily.", he tends to fail to see the big picture, and that already led to catastrophes, pulling out the spears because he wanted to be loved again without taking into account the big picture(i.e. Kaworu and Asuka screaming at him to don't do it) being the latest and bigger one.

So what essentially Mari asks him is to stop wallowing in self-pity and actually try to understand what the others has gone through and see that he's not the only one to suffer. Yet that interpretation implies that Mari knows very well Shinji's psyche, which is odd since they only had two conversation at all, unless someone who figured him out talked about it with her(Kaji?).
That ties with her phrase just before to "stop being such a baby" and "You're a man, aren't you?!".

Although to be fair others people tends to neglect to explain to him anything about the big picture(Misato explained to him that he's fighting to protect Lilith and mankind only after Ramiel almost kills him!), and it's kinda hard to not fell in a pit of despair when you're declared guilty of mass genocide and destruction of the world...

Agree there. Asuka herself keeps telling Shinji to stop being self-centered throughout the movie. I doubt Mari ever talked to Kaji about Shinji, but it's definitely weird that she seems to know more about him than she should. In that same exchange she seems to think that she can make Shinji react by telling him to help Asuka, yet Mari has never met Asuka and Shinji together. She shouldn't even know what kind of relationship they had. Even if Asuka told her that Shinji was an important friend to her (doubtful), it still doesn't explain why Mari brings up Asuka in that context. Let's not forget that, even then, she actually refers to Asuka as princess. Not really a good idea to use a nickname that Shinji never heard before. Let's just say that Mari is more perceptive (and weird) than your average person and wait for 4.0 to get some more answers as to who exactly she is...

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Postby wiser3754 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:17 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:In my opinion, she's telling him to try to understand the others instead of staying so "me-centric", to quote thegoodson : "Shinji interprets every action from a perspective of how it affects him primarily.", he tends to fail to see the big picture, and that already led to catastrophes, pulling out the spears because he wanted to be loved again without taking into account the big picture(i.e. Kaworu and Asuka screaming at him to don't do it) being the latest and bigger one.

So what essentially Mari asks him is to stop wallowing in self-pity and actually try to understand what the others has gone through and see that he's not the only one to suffer. Yet that interpretation implies that Mari knows very well Shinji's psyche, which is odd since they only had two conversation at all, unless someone who figured him out talked about it with her(Kaji?).
That ties with her phrase just before to "stop being such a baby" and "You're a man, aren't you?!".

Although to be fair others people tends to neglect to explain to him anything about the big picture(Misato explained to him that he's fighting to protect Lilith and mankind only after Ramiel almost kills him!), and it's kinda hard to not fell in a pit of despair when you're declared guilty of mass genocide
and destruction of the world...


I doubt those lines she says to Shinji before she pulls him out are enough to pull him out of his clammy shell of guilt, grief and loneliness that's he's regressed into anytime soon.

Granted, in 2.0 when she takes him to see the damage done to the geo-front and Rei being eaten by the tenth angel it's enough to get him back into Unit 01, I just don't see how those few lines are going to make any sort of impression on him especially after the truth about third impact and his role in fourth impact.

He sits in his plug in a fetal position doing nothing, he didn't help Asuka, he doesn't respond to her, doesn't help himself get out of the plug let alone stand up straight and needs to be led through the desert by his wrist.
Basically, he did nothing what Mari asked him to do (granted, it should take time for it to set in) and the way I see it, if he knows he's being dragged back to WILLE, he'll basically keep doing nothing until WILLE decides what to do with him.
If he's going to break out of his shell and confront his problems and reflect on what he's done, he needs time and distance far away from NERV, EVA's, WILLE and the WUNDER.
If you want to add this, I guess his "walk" with Asuka in the desert might help him, but I just don't him responding to her.
In the preview for FINAL it mentions "the place he ends up in will teach him hope" hence why I keep thinking he's not being taken back to he WUNDER (yes the ship of HOPE, pfft) instead, when they're picked up by the "lilin", they're dropped off from what I can only speculate, a settlement or city, where he learns this "hope". Or you know, it's just Instrumentality, so go figure.

Also, the real reason why I said that Asuka should tell WILLE that Shinji had died in his entry plug before WILLE picks her up (and presumably Rei Q) is simple, what would Misato's and WILLE's reaction be to this?
It would be a load off Shinji's shoulders, knowing that the organisation who could have killed you via bomb collar, imprisoned and condemned you aren't coming to find you, giving you time and energy to reflect on you've done recently (until you're caught hiding that is) and be ready to confront them should the need arise.

Yes, he's cursed to be an impact trigger, but take that away, he's just a kid and doesn't know what to do.

Feel free to tear this post apart as I just love to speculate what other people haven't yet.
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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:22 am

View Original PostAlphaGamma wrote:Mari has never met Asuka and Shinji together. She shouldn't even know what kind of relationship they had.

We don't know that; sure, we weren't shown such a meeting (we don't even know how she went from arriving secretly to being accepted as piloting Eva-02), but she was around somehow during the period that Shinji and Asuka were kind-of team-mates, so it would be surprising if she wasn't aware of what was going on.
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Postby Stillborn » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:58 am

View Original PostAlphaGamma wrote:Let's just say that Mari is more perceptive (and weird) than your average person and wait for 4.0 to get some more answers as to who exactly she is...


Since Anno loves to bring joy and happiness to Eva only to shatter it sadistically to make fall all the more painfull, so seeing Mari being the only one genuinly happy and upbeat, I'm expecting her to turn out to be some genetic monstrosity that will disgust everyone or that will need to be killed.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:52 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:I doubt those lines she says to Shinji before she pulls him out are enough to pull him out of his clammy shell of guilt, grief and loneliness that's he's regressed into anytime soon.

Granted, in 2.0 when she takes him to see the damage done to the geo-front and Rei being eaten by the tenth angel it's enough to get him back into Unit 01, I just don't see how those few lines are going to make any sort of impression on him especially after the truth about third impact and his role in fourth impact.

Well, she wasn't seeing inside Shinji's plug, so she couldn't know that by the time of her speech he was reduced to a catatonic wreck and probably didn't even heard her, or at least it didn't registered yet.
Besides she didn't exactly had the time for a lengthy motivational spech!

As for 2.0 I don't think she was trying to influence him into going to fight, but actually really wanted to help him get the hell out of here, though in the end Shinji chose another path.

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Basically, he did nothing what Mari asked him to do (granted, it should take time for it to set in) and the way I see it, if he knows he's being dragged back to WILLE, he'll basically keep doing nothing until WILLE decides what to do with him.
If he's going to break out of his shell and confront his problems and reflect on what he's done, he needs time and distance far away from NERV, EVA's, WILLE and the WUNDER.
If you want to add this, I guess his "walk" with Asuka in the desert might help him, but I just don't him responding to her.
In the preview for FINAL it mentions "the place he ends up in will teach him hope" hence why I keep thinking he's not being taken back to he WUNDER (yes the ship of HOPE, pfft) instead, when they're picked up by the "lilin", they're dropped off from what I can only speculate, a settlement or city, where he learns this "hope". Or you know, it's just Instrumentality, so go figure.

As you said, the trip in the desert will be long, there is potentially other occasions for Shinji to make up for his inaction at the end of 3.0. As for WILLE, well it will depend on what they decide to do with him, but plot will probably take the decision for them anyway...
And even if the place where he will ends will teach him hope, that don't mean that he can't begin his journey out of his pit of despair a little before that.

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Also, the real reason why I said that Asuka should tell WILLE that Shinji had died in his entry plug before WILLE picks her up (and presumably Rei Q) is simple, what would Misato's and WILLE's reaction be to this?
It would be a load off Shinji's shoulders, knowing that the organisation who could have killed you via bomb collar, imprisoned and condemned you aren't coming to find you, giving you time and energy to reflect on you've done recently (until you're caught hiding that is) and be ready to confront them should the need arise.

Yes, he's cursed to be an impact trigger, but take that away, he's just a kid and doesn't know what to do.

But as you said, he's cursed to be an impact trigger, and that makes Asuka automatically unable to let him free from WILLE : if she let him hides in an hypothetical Lilin City and neo-NERV still has another use for him and sent, said a platoon of MP-EVAs or a bunch of NS to abduct him, all the damages and deaths which would result will be Asuka's fault. That's Shinji's big tragedy in 3.0 : he's unwanted by WILLE, on a practical point of view is completely useless(except piloting an EVA he knows nothing that could be useful to a military fleet, unless the Angel-sealing runes are controlled by piano...), but they can't get rid of him because he's a walking Apocalypse trigger, so they must keep him in close custody and protect him from neo-NERV.
And even if she wanted to let him hide in a "Lilin City", the pick up team will still see Shinji and Rei when they will extract everyone, and I don't see Asuka being able to convince the people of the extraction team to drop the two guys with a neo-NERV plugsuit somewhere and turn a blind eye, especially since Misato would want a complete debriefing from everyone...

Finally, as I said, Asuka is very adamant to make him face the consequences of his acts and the people he wronged, even if it will be unpleasant, and Asuka was always one to go to the direct route, even at the risk of being blunt and rude.




That make me realize that I really hope that Final will explain to us in detail what exactly is an 'Impact Trigger", that term is used by almost everyone through the film, yet we don't have a single clue about what exactly qualify someone as one : Kaworu and Shinji are Triggers, yet ReiQ isn't one(if she was SEELE would have used her for HIP years ago), so not every pilot can qualify. Is it people who have "changed" through EVA and became something more? Then is Mari and Asuka Triggers too? Yet Shinji's red eyes in 2.0 manifested before he entered the "Great Beyond" depth level, even before EVA-01 reactivate, could that means that there is some angelic weird stuff with his body? That could explains the angel sealing runes on the DSS Choker and the overly complicated method to kill its wearer instead of used a simple explosive, but then did that mean that Asuka is a Trigger too?

And it would be nice if the rest of the terms thrown freely all around, like ADAM's Vessel, Nemesis Series, L Barrier... get to be explained too, we got it that the guys who had to live through the Time Skip are much more knowledgeable than Shinji who was "sleeping" all this time, and that it helps to convey his feeling of confusion to the viewers, but now it's time to actually know what's happening.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:42 pm

View Original PostStillborn wrote:Since Anno loves to bring joy and happiness to Eva only to shatter it sadistically to make fall all the more painfull, so seeing Mari being the only one genuinly happy and upbeat, I'm expecting her to turn out to be some genetic monstrosity that will disgust everyone or that will need to be killed.

:facepalm: Sadly, I would get behind this. However, it would be a good call. Think of the emotional impact that it has to see happiness get crushed.

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Postby Ænimal » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:Since Anno loves to bring joy and happiness to Eva only to shatter it sadistically to make fall all the more painfull, so seeing Mari being the only one genuinly happy and upbeat, I'm expecting her to turn out to be some genetic monstrosity that will disgust everyone or that will need to be killed.


quiet, you!!! don't give him ideas that he has already thought of and is probably going to implement... ;_;

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Postby TheDrmcvey » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:08 am

I know this may seem arrogant of me to say this, but i don't think people who continue to hate on 3.0 should be allowed to watch 4.0. Why even bother if you plan on hating it before it gets released.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:30 am

Most of the 2.0 hate crew seem to have quieted down by the time Q came out, so I don't expect things to be much different this time around.
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Postby wiser3754 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:09 am

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:!

But as you said, he's cursed to be an impact trigger, and that makes Asuka automatically unable to let him free from WILLE : if she let him hides in an hypothetical Lilin City and neo-NERV still has another use for him and sent, said a platoon of MP-EVAs or a bunch of NS to abduct him, all the damages and deaths which would result will be Asuka's fault. That's Shinji's big tragedy in 3.0 : he's unwanted by WILLE, on a practical point of view is completely useless(except piloting an EVA he knows nothing that could be useful to a military fleet, unless the Angel-sealing runes are controlled by piano...), but they can't get rid of him because he's a walking Apocalypse trigger, so they must keep him in close custody and protect him from neo-NERV.

And even if she wanted to let him hide in a "Lilin City", the pick up team will still see Shinji and Rei when they will extract everyone, and I don't see Asuka being able to convince the people of the extraction team to drop the two guys with a neo-NERV plugsuit somewhere and turn a blind eye, especially since Misato would want a complete debriefing from everyone..


If Shinji is taken back to the WUNDER, they can't protect him. The WUNDER is damaged, it has no functioning EVA's (if you discount the possibility that EVA-13 has been picked up), it's main guns were damaged and you also have the crew of the WUNDER to worry about (especially Ritsuko). Also to point out, MP EVA's, the nemesis series, and (likely) Neo-Nerv's own AAA WUNDER. Having him on board with an awakened EVA (or EVAs -Unit 13-) puts two chess pieces on Nerv's board in one place.

As for debriefing, I doubt Shinji will say anything in the fear he'll make his current situation worse (or if he even cares about it).

And remember, if Shinji tells Asuka what Fuyutsuki told him about his mother and EVA unit 01 and his father's relentlessness to get what he wants, the WUNDER is already a target of NEO-NERV.

For the LILIN picking them up outside the L barrier, Asuka is expecting LILIN, not WILLE, so she better have a good story as to why the brown haired boy isn't who they think he is (Shinji is supposed to be 28, not 14).

Just a quick point I'd like to make, if he's hiding in the hypothetical LILIN city, where he begins to recover and discover the world can be rebuilt (albeit slowly), he may agonise over the thought that it can be attacked by NEO-NERV due to him being there, but granted, if he wants to see the world rebuilt the way the LILIN want to, he'll need to confront WILLE (who'll no doubt show up taking in refugees) and fight back NEO-NERV.

But most likely, he'll be taken back to the WUNDER, where he'll do nothing, Misato in a haste of desperation, will ask him to pilot EVA 01 one last time, he'll fail, FINAL impact will occur and we go down the same path we did 11 years ago (EoE).

Feel free to tear this post apart, I know you want to.
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Postby Stillborn » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:02 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote::facepalm: Sadly, I would get behind this. However, it would be a good call. Think of the emotional impact that it has to see happiness get crushed.


Then we could already classify it as a darkfic. Because, you know, happiness is not allowed in Eva for happiness sake. Only to amplify suffering.
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Postby ElMariachi » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:22 am

View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:Feel free to tear this post apart, I know you want to.

Well, if you invite me so nicely, how can I refuse? :D

Even if the Wunder is damaged, that's still better than any base or settlement were they could dump him : the Wunder can still fly, a moving target is always harder to get than a static one! Besides I'm sure that Misato and Ristuko will want to keep Shinji near to personally keep an eye on him.

As for the debriefing, I was talking about the rescue team : Misato will probably want to debrief every members, and Asuka better pray that they are good liars, and willing to lie to Misato...
Although now that you mention it, Shinji and Rei Q are probably the only people that saw neo-NERV facilities that WILLE ever captured, so it will probably be very interesting to interrogate them. And even if Shinji is afraid/unwilling to talk, I really doubt Asuka or Misato will care about it : he have useful information and he's gonna to told them, because that's important, even if they are painful for him.

With his behavior when he made Mark.09 raid the Wunder and the fact that the awakening of EVA-13 was important for his plans, it's clear that Gendo abandoned the idea to use EVA-01 for his plan a long time ago, sure if he can take it back that would be nice, but it's not important to his plan anymore, as long as yui's soul is safe inside it everything is fine.
Coincidentally, that means that Gendo apparently don't have any use for Rei in his plan, unlike in NGE were she was a vital part of it. Actually, it seems that Rei's usefulness aside for being a pilot ended when she made EVA-01 awaken with Shinji.

For the "Lilin" term, maybe it's a term Asuka use to design everyone in general, in contrast with her who's now a "freak" thanks to her glowy eye and the curse of Eva, in Rebuild she seems to love to give nicknames to everyone.
But if he ends in a settlement, unless his face became common knowledge, it's possible that Shinji finds some peace if the people there don't know who he is(as long as he stays away from any WILLE member working at the Wunder in permission), and seeing his state of mind he really needs a break! A possibility is that the rescue team pick them up, and brought them to the settlement where the Wunder dropped its fleet before attacking neo-NERV's HQ and is now undertaking reparations... but even then it's more likely that Shinji will be transfered in the Wunder.
A possibility is that Kaji, now an high ranked official of WILLE, drops by and takes Shinji under his responsibility to brought him in a "tour" of Lilin City...



View Original Postwiser3754 wrote:But most likely, he'll be taken back to the WUNDER, where he'll do nothing, Misato in a haste of desperation, will ask him to pilot EVA 01 one last time, he'll fail, FINAL impact will occur and we go down the same path we did 11 years ago (EoE).

No, I'm sure that this time it will be different : since Bardiel's fight in 2.0, Shinji chained only failures upon falures, I think it's time to break the chain of failures, if not his character will stay stuck as a failure himself!
Besides it would be really lame if Anno made all these huge changes in the setting and timeline if it's just to bring us a redo of EoE.
Finally, I've always been sure that 3.0 was in fact a "personal" EoE for Shinji : a film were he's brought to the deepest pits of despair and brought the end of the world from anger and desperation... and then learn that his previous world-view and way of living were wrong. The big difference being that this time he brought it not out of spite against the world but in a last-ditch attempt to restore it, that said end of teh wold was ultimately prevented by Kaworu and WILLE, and finally that even if the consequences of his actions have been slapped back on his face he has yet to let his lesson sink.(lesson being "stop thinking only about yourself and listen to what others have to say, even if you don't like what they are saying")
As for EVA-01, maybe he will get back inside as a desperate last move from Misato, but my favorite scenario would be that he gets inside another Evangelion(a re-purposed MP-EVA captured by WILLE, EVA-13 assisted by Kaworu as the Control System, or even a Mark.06 or 09 somehow back from the dead!) to fight alongside Mari and Asuka and supported by the Wunder who got a massive boost of power from Yui and Rei II intervening to boost it! Now if only EVA 8+2 is revealed to be a joke and they both have their own EVA, and Rei Q got an EVA for herself too that would be the perfect plot for Final, all of mankind's forces fighting alongside to brought down neo-NERV and its unmanned army! :peace:
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