3.0 Film Reaction Thread

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Stillborn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:56 pm

My first post here. And allready it will be wall of text. But I feel the burning need for it.

**************************************
I wont be talking about graphics or soundtrack. Those are top notch. I'll be another one of those who bite it for the plot content. So here comes the venom.


This is the first movie in a long time, that made me so frustrated and angry, that it physically hurts. Not only it gave me insomnia like it did to some other people here, but it actually gave me enough stress to physically damage me.

My problem with this movie is probably that it tries to force on us author's philosophy. And no one is actually sure what this philosophy even suppose to be. It was done with orginal NGE. It was done with Ergo Proxy. And it's happanenig again with Evangelion remake. Maybe there is SOME obscured message in there. But what do we see most clearly?

- It's ok to use child soldiers if you have a "validate reason". End justify the means. With exceptions for some people.

- Humans are egoistic bastards that need a comfortable scapegoat to burden with their problems.

- You should sacrifice your loved ones for the sake of majority. (The Wicker Man anyone?)

- If the scapegoat falls under it's pressure we should give it a kick and call "suck it up kid".

- Scapegoat is Marked one.

- Marked one carry burdens of all so if he goes the way he wants, everyone is fucked. It can not be allowed or forgiven.

- Marked ones life and happiness is irrevelant so the world can go on with it's status quo in blissful ignorance.

- Marked one have the right to quietly suffer and die for us.

- If the Marked one rebels and takes action for himself, he is a criminal because it breaks the status quo and majority comfortable ignorance is disturbed.

- For his sin of selfishness we have the divine right to condemn and hate him with all the power of our righthous desire for happines. It's not selfishness. Were not the scapegoats after all. Sucks to be him but hey, "suck it up, you pussy".

- If you have bad luck of being pawn of the higher powers, be it human or divine, be a man and deal with it. Don't try to make your own life. Be obedient slave. Someone has to, it just happened to be you. Tough luck.




- Humans are hypocrites.

That's all examples I got for now.

Well, now apparently Eva is aimed at otakus. Funny thing. It's criticises the people with bad social skills and lame hobbies that was most likely criticised and bullied at school. So why not kick them some more.

On other hand, Anno apparently have no problem with people who enjoy watching a child suffers fate worse than death, because apparently this is deep.
This is a lack of empathy and downright sociopathic elements. But I guess it's less irritating than "those damn otakus" in their basements with figurines and drawn porn.



I don't know. Maybe I'm the stupid one for suffering along with fictional character. Maybe I should accept the fact that majority makes right, regardless of ones morals. Maybe i should feel okay with the knowledge that a lot of my products have been made with child labor in china. After all everyone buys it, it's cheap and conviniet so it must be ok.


Seriously. What I want at the end of Final, is for Shinji to die. It would be an act of mercy for him now. Or better yet. For Shinji to go all genocidial and kill mankind WITHOUT REGRET THIS TIME. And the final lesson will be: Stop shifting the blame on a single convinient target.

Maybe humanity like that don't deserve, to be saved.

I will be laughing then. Like a fuckin Joker.

*****************************************
My head hurts a bit less now. Just a tiny bit...
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Postby Jomei » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:03 pm

I'm not sure the series endorses those views, really. Anno says some bizarre and bitter (also hilariously ironic) things in interviews, but his works themselves have more sympathy, I think.

To me, the film is less about blaming Shinji than it is about showing that sometimes in life, even if you are trying your best to do something good, awful things happen, and people might blame you unfairly or treat you badly. Then the question is: how do you respond? Do you withdraw and refuse to face reality? Or do you find the will to move forward and change things?

The final film will hopefully clear this up.

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Postby Psychodrake » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:05 pm

Probably my favourite movie in the Rebuild series so far. It gave me the exact same feeling I had when I finished EoE for the first time - Like I had been handed an incomplete jigsaw puzzle in a box. However, where EoE and the series was a complete jigsaw, I'm to find myself puzzled, confused and a bit stressed knowing that the Rebuild series still has missing parts.

It wasn't the movie I was expecting at all. Going into this almost blind bar a few trailers, I thought Unit 13 was some combination of 01 and Mark 6, I had no idea about Lilith or Mark 6's actual fate and I had no idea to Wille's existence. I was in the same situation as the people who went to see it in the cinema first time, most likely.

But I wasn't disappointed. It was strange, it had this strange melancholic feeling throughout. Something I like about Eva is how it can almost constantly have music rolling and have it transition throughout the scenes in a way that works. I don't think anybody can deny that the franchise has always had a fantastic grip over sound and animation though.

I do think that the main battle of this film is one of THE best battles in Evangelion history. Even Asuka with 14 years of extra experience couldn't stand up to Shinji in Unit 13 (Baring in mind he's clearly holding back). Rei's soulless nature slowly turning into questioning of her own being really intrigued me. The set pieces formed in the time skip feel like puzzle pieces with no connection - And that gives them their own eeriness. When I first saw Mark 6 impaled, I was a little flabbergasted, I expected a really big battle with this Eva but he was just another tool in the overall plan.

It was definitely Evangelion in its purest form. When we're handed the rest of the puzzle, I think people will grow to love 3.33. Part of me thinks Final won't be the actual final movie, however.

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Postby Jinroh » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:13 pm

View Original PostPsychodrake wrote:Part of me thinks Final won't be the actual final movie, however.

I share that feeling, there's just too much left to be covered in only one movie.

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Postby Dima » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:18 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:I share that feeling, there's just too much left to be covered in only one movie.


I dont think we will see a movie covering the events between 2.0 and 3.0.A TV-series or an OVA makes much more sense.But i am good either way as long as we get the answers.

Also since the moment i saw 3.33 i have the feeling that we wont see 4.0 in the next 5 years :sniffle: .I seriously don't know why i have this feeling i hope to be sooooo wrong.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:27 pm

View Original PostDima wrote:Also since the moment i saw 3.33 i have the feeling that we wont see 4.0 in the next 5 years :sniffle: .I seriously don't know why i have this feeling i hope to be sooooo wrong.

I have a feeling that we might see 4.0 fairly soon. :wink:

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Postby JB2448 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:45 pm

3.33 made me cry by the end. The attention to detail in every single frame is definitely up to New Theatrical Edition's standards.
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Postby AmuroRay » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:49 pm

View Original PostJB2448 wrote:3.33 made me cry by the end. The attention to detail in every single frame is definitely up to New Theatrical edition's standards.


Cry? Com on man.

What bit made you cry lol.

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Postby Xard » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:22 pm

View Original PostAmuroRay wrote:Cry? Com on man.

What bit made you cry lol.


EVERYBODY FINDS LOVE

IN THE END


For those too shocked with contents or disappoint while it's entirely possible those feelings remain unchanged I think it's equally likely to change. Give it a bit time and see it another time. The film was a bit overpowering when I first saw the camrip DESPITE knowing all the spoilers.

It's first film in Rebuild that demands rewatch forcefully, just like good old EoE.

Speaking of which, fucking UTW release is slow as fuck for some reason. I want to see this shit in BD quality already damnit
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Postby Stillborn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:30 pm

To me, the film is less about blaming Shinji than it is about showing that sometimes in life, even if you are trying your best to do something good, awful things happen, and people might blame you unfairly or treat you badly. Then the question is: how do you respond? Do you withdraw and refuse to face reality? Or do you find the will to move forward and change things?



Ok. You are an architect. You've build a skyscraper. Someone higher in chain of command cheated on papers so he would keep more money for himself. In the result you recieved worse build materials, than you demanded for this construction. But you don't know this.

After the building is finished and open for work, you go for a deserved nightly rest. Then you are suddenly woken by a sound of door breaking. A bunch of armed guys drags you away in the middle of the night and puts you to a cell. Then you learn that building collapsed, over hundred people is dead and you are blamed for act of terrorism. You were tired that day and you trusted in your superiors so you forgot to personally check the materials a hundrenth time You just wanted to go to sleep finally. So you are partly to blame and have blood on you hands by your mistake.

How do you deal with this? Please elaborate.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Let's not make this another Shinji Thread, okay?

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Postby Stillborn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:18 pm

Then don't do it. I asked what kind of lesson can we learn and how to apply it?

Shinji's name was unavoidbale cause he was a medium of some message.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:07 pm

Always fascinating to see the people who vehemently hate 3.0. The ones who give it zero marks & call the plot "the worst thing ever". How they get so angry that Anno betrayed easy blockbuster storytelling for something a little darker, nihilistic, unpleasant & that goes against traditional "hero arch" narrative. For one it makes me wonder if they've ever actually watched Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Even better is when this is usually followed up with "Anno clearly did this for just the money" or "Anno is the George Lucas of Anime"... of which neither comment makes any sense. If Anno was in this for just the money than the easiest way to do that is just follow what 2.0 "promised" - a traditional heroic boy version of Evangelion where "guts" & "a strong heart" can overcome any obstacle.
As for the George Lucas thing? Yeah, that only works on the most superficial lazy attempts at being witty terms as possible. It holds no ground.

Anywho, Evangelion getting people up in a tizzy over it being cold, harsh & not what they expected... sounds like classic Evangelion! Love it!

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Postby kboyrulez12345 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:21 pm

Ok. You are an architect. You've build a skyscraper. Someone higher in chain of command cheated on papers so he would keep more money for himself. In the result you recieved worse build materials, than you demanded for this construction. But you don't know this.

After the building is finished and open for work, you go for a deserved nightly rest. Then you are suddenly woken by a sound of door breaking. A bunch of armed guys drags you away in the middle of the night and puts you to a cell. Then you learn that building collapsed, over hundred people is dead and you are blamed for act of terrorism. You were tired that day and you trusted in your superiors so you forgot to personally check the materials a hundrenth time You just wanted to go to sleep finally. So you are partly to blame and have blood on you hands by your mistake.

How do you deal with this? Please elaborate.


It's difficult to answer this question for me. But I can assure you this: human beings do look at the bad things in life first before the good. Or, at least the majority of us do. The common human mistake is letting your emotions cloud your judgement. And that is exactly what the WILLE staff have done. Perhaps someone from WILLE had a family member or a son, or some type of loved one, died during Near Third Impact. And they really love this person. They don't care about this random 14 year old kid, all they know is that he was the one responsible for killing my loved ones. That's the kind of mind set WILLE are in, and that's a fault of human weakness.

As for what I would do during your situation...well, I'm not sure. I would of course plea my innocence. I guess I would also try to get someone from the outside to gather evidence for my case. Then if they find evidicence, I'll just have to leave it to the judge.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:24 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Always fascinating to see the people who vehemently hate 3.0. The ones who give it zero marks & call the plot "the worst thing ever". How they get so angry that Anno betrayed easy blockbuster storytelling for something a little darker, nihilistic, unpleasant & that goes against traditional "hero arch" narrative. For one it makes me wonder if they've ever actually watched Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Even better is when this is usually followed up with "Anno clearly did this for just the money" or "Anno is the George Lucas of Anime"... of which neither comment makes any sense. If Anno was in this for just the money than the easiest way to do that is just follow what 2.0 "promised" - a traditional heroic boy version of Evangelion where "guts" & "a strong heart" can overcome any obstacle.
As for the George Lucas thing? Yeah, that only works on the most superficial lazy attempts at being witty terms as possible. It holds no ground.

Anywho, Evangelion getting people up in a tizzy over it being cold, harsh & not what they expected... sounds like classic Evangelion! Love it!

:thumbsup: :salute:

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Postby Stillborn » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:25 pm

Yes. I know you love it. I adressed it in my first post. I like Evangelion. Despite all it's darkness. Despite the fact that I hate to see characters suffer. Maybe giant robots are enough to hold me.

It's just if I wanted to see how much life can fuck us up, all I have to do is look through the window. I like these cheesy ideas of badassness. Eva was the first from Anno's work I've seen. Probably that's why I prefer it over Gurren Lagann and want to see main cast happy in the end. If I would like to fanwank to unjust cruelty and suffering I would watch Hostel. Or watch news.

I watch Eva wile holding a dim candle of hope for better end. But then I feel like I got kicked. And i hear from people "yeah that's good".

Well sorry for being humanly frustrated over it. Apparently I'm not a true fan enough to appreciate child abuse.

Well technically Shinji is the only child left, since everyone apparently is the "wise old adult" or "hardned veteran". But what do i know...
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Postby kboyrulez12345 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:34 pm

@Stillborn, With Evangelion's message on how fucked up life is...that's kind of the essance of Evangelion, what makes Evangelion if you will. Without some sort of fucked up situation, it just would be Evangelion...too me. After all, it's just about how life can be cruel, and the only thing you can do is move forward.

I know you want the characters to have a good end, but their are two problems with that:

1. It's the 3rd movie. Anno has at least 1 movie left of story to tell. Their has to be some kind of hardship or conflict the characters have to go through for their to be another movie of course.

2. It would be to quickly if the characters were leading to a happy end in this movie. I can assure you, their will be at least some type of happy end, don't know what type, but it will be a happy end. Anno is hinting at it. The song at the end, Sakura Nagashi, and Kaworu's constant talk about hope. Yep, all foreshadowing.

Before you say, "well, we expected a good ending in EoE, and look what happend"(if you were gonna say that) then EoE did have a somewhat good ending. Humanity can still be restored if it wants.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:36 pm

Didn't mean to upset you. Was talking more about the AmuroRay guy who came out of nowhere to say "Worst thing Evar! 0/10 all around! even animation sucks!"
Even if the film itself does upset you on a spiritual level it's hard to say 3.0 was a technical failure. It's the best Eva has ever looked... until the next film.

Anywho, as long as Anno is behind it Eva is not going to be like the happy-go-lucky series. It's a showcase of his pretty great writing that he can make you care for the characters so when he does go dark you really feel it. I can understand people being upset with the direction the Rebuild story has gone, that's cool. But also I can argue till I'm blue in the face that the story they've taken it in is being handled almost perfectly. ALMOST being the key word of course.

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Postby thegoodson » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:08 pm

Well since the last time I watched it was the camrip at 4 in the morning while heavily intoxicated, I thought I’d post my thoughts.

Currently, this is the best of the Rebuild so far for me. I love the new direction, I’m really excited about what transpired to make the characters act the way they do. It was emotionally intense as well as (many will argue with me here) well written.

Q seems like a buildup movie in a lot of ways. Yes it has its own self contained story, but more so then 1.0 and 2.0, the film feels like part of a larger narrative. When information is given (ignoring the info dumps by Kaworu and Fuyutsuki) images and sentences are shown or said for just the right amount of time. Anno doesn’t treat the audience with kiddy gloves. The rewatchability of this one exceeds the previous installments, and I notice something new every time I see it, be it in the plot or visually (the ricochet cannons when Wunder shoots 13 Holy shit).

Something I really want to address, that I talked with my friends about after the group watch session is the “character development” argument. Now I have been lurking here as well as /a/ and know that character development is (from what I’ve seen) the number one complaint those who dislike the film go to, and some of my friends did too, though they all liked the movie. Now I feel this is slightly misleading; there is character development, the majority offscreen, but still there is character development. What I think most people are upset about (and I might be wrong here) is the lack of articulated character motivation. We aren’t shown directly what formed Misato/Asuka/Mari etc, we are simply shown the end result.

But I have to say, in a film that is structurally designed to provoke questions and raise anticipation, it seems quite silly to me to fault a movie for something it didn’t set out to do. Its not that the movie failed to explicate adequately on Wille’s formation, what happened with Lilith, etc. They said just enough to raise questions. Saying Q’s a dud for not explaining things doesn’t make sense. You're judging it from a personal criteria that the film doesn't adhere to. You want to know, the movie doesn't want you to know, in the end you don't know. Sounds like they were successful in their intentions to me. :tongue:

The original series wouldn’t be nearly as interesting if as soon as we met Misato they did an infodump on her presence at 2nd impact, her dead dad, and her subsequent silence. Or if the first time we see Gendo we find out his dead wife's in the Eva, he's gonna try to control the apocalypse. These things are revealed gradually and purposefully. I'm sure after 4.0 we'll reappraise the actions of the characters in 3.0 yet again. That's how the series worked. With every single character.

The movie is gorgeous, that opening scene is probably the most cinematic Eva sequence. This felt like a movie. I was wowed and saddened, I got goose bumps, and was just delighted to see something unexpected. I can’t disagree more with people who complain about pacing, editing, or cinematography. Every moment seemed very deliberate and necessary. I think this speaks to the lack of new scenes in 3.33. We were given everything we needed to know…for right now.

So yeah. Q : 5 out of 5. I'm sorta surprised, I always assumed that the mystery and darkness of Evangelion was part of the draw, but for a lot of internet folk I guess its not. I really dislike the character development argument because I think when you break it down, its more about not knowing why certain things happen in the movie. And it’s supposed to be that way. But maybe I just don’t get it. ^_^

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Postby thefeelingofikarishinji » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:25 pm

I agree with you Stillborn. The way Shinji is treated throughout the film, plied on with shame, guilt, and condemnation no matter what he does is sick. Misato and the others express no blame for the corporate elitist Seele or Gendo, the real architects off what happened but wish to manipulate, attack, and use the defenseless Shinji. It's wrong, and it makes no sense why Willie brought Shinji back to life in the first place. I don't like putative judgements being slammed on top of traumatized kids, let alone ones clouded in religous language like "sin." Some of this filler could have been skipped over in favor of a better ending, like if Kaworu had lived and they were really able to create a better world together.
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