alexsan1991x wrote:Okay.

I have to get this all off my chest RIGHT NOW.

We have a thread for this : http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/14086/SPOILERS-Do-you-Dislike-Q/

And it's not as if we weren't warned -- if you dig through the archives, you'll find VA interviews from early in the development process warning that Q was going to be dark and likely to divide the fan base.

I do not feel as if I just watched anything to do with Evangelion. Am I missing something?

It all depends what Evangelion is to you whether and at what point the Rebuilds stop being Eva.

Mr. Tines wrote:We have a thread for this : http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/14086/SPOILERS-Do-you-Dislike-Q/

I still think that it's redundant, if your reaction is "I disliked it", obviously it fits in this thread as well...

Mr. Tines wrote:And it's not as if we weren't warned -- if you dig through the archives, you'll find VA interviews from early in the development process warning that Q was going to be dark and likely to divide the fan base.

I remember only Maya's VA mentioning something about it, it was a very vague warning.

Mr. Tines wrote:And it's not as if we weren't warned -- if you dig through the archives, you'll find VA interviews from early in the development process warning that Q was going to be dark and likely to divide the fan base.

I wonder why I never heard about these. They'd be interesting to watch. It's particularly interesting that they note that it would divide the fanbase, though.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:I wonder why I never heard about these. They'd be interesting to watch. It's particularly interesting that they note that it would divide the fanbase, though.

From Gwern's website wrote:At an event in Tokyo yesterday, Maya’s voice actress said that Q will move Rebuild "swiftly in a grim direction", and is expected to strongly divide the audience. The host of the event said he’d heard that many of the staff working on the film feel that it’s "too dark".

There's no trace of silly timeskips in these statements.

Hyper Shinchan wrote:There's no trace of silly timeskips in these statements.

When I said "It", I was referring to the movie itself, not the timeskip. Sorry for the miscommunication.

It's cool.

I'm relaxed now.

You have to understand, the film was a lot to take in but for all the wrong reasons.

I've chilled for a bit and vented, but my points remain absolutely the same.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm just outright plainly seeing that there was no story at all. Now, without sounding like a stuck up dick... I've studied media for around 8 years now, and so can pretty much say without a doubt that this film was rushed beyond belief.
I fail to see anything in this film that indicates it was supposed to be this way.

It wasn't dark, either and we weren't "in the dark" about anything because it actually goes to lengths to explain loose ends but just fails explaining the most important stuff. Why?

Because there wasn't time for it.

Someone, honestly, tell me which part of 3.33 drove the story forward for you?
I'm really curious to see how others have interpreted what they're seeing.

Now, I could do this all day long but I'll leave it with these three points that makes me just erk.

1. Shinji is the soul reason for 3rd impact (according to what we're told throughout).
At the start of the film, he has a collar put on him that Misato can detonate whenever she wants... No more than 10 minutes later, they let him escape. In plain sight. In full range.
Oh, and then decide not to pursue him.
What exactly did they THINK was going to happen?

2. Flying boats? Really?
This was a sad, pathetic and unbelievable attempt at eye-candy.
We already had the Evas... why on Earth do we need FLYING BOATS?
FLYING BOATS?
I just can't get over that.
We don't need Final Fantasy esque imagery in an Evangelion film.
One thing about this that bothers me is the fact that in most post-apocalyptic scenarios technology goes backwards, not forwards. which brings me to a sub-point about how the fuck both NERV and Wille still have the technology to create AND maintain new Eva units.

3. The plot.
This one the most, because it encompasses everything else within it.
The two above points were just personal erks.
This however.
Now, I already asked for interpretations and I look forward to those, however...

What was the plot?

Find Shinji in space. Contain him. Make sure he can't do ANYTHING.
Watch him walk out the door.
Meet Karowu. Forget Rei II. Play piano.

Meet Rei III and completely disregard her because she's a fake of a fake. LOGIC.
Go down to Dogma which Wile hasn't done anything about yet? Nice, nice.
Get two spears. Get told not to take the two spears.
TAKE THEM ANYWAY.
4TH IMPACT GO!!!

4th impact stopped.
Walk through red sand.
Rei III tags along because she didn't die... Wait what?
What the hell was she doing the WHOLE TIME during that... Hell, it wasn't even a fight scene.

ENOUGH.

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:When I said "It", I was referring to the movie itself, not the timeskip. Sorry for the miscommunication.

The mistake was on my part actually, I was thinking about that thing, the timiskip, being the most divisive element in our community but I didn't really elaborate my thought...

alexsan1991x wrote:Oh, and then decide not to pursue him.
What exactly did they THINK was going to happen?

They were in no condition to pursue him with their ship damaged and their Evas being incapable of magical flight, they knew that something was going to happen and they kept monitoring Nerv's actions.

alexsan1991x wrote:We don't need Final Fantasy esque imagery in an Evangelion film.

It's Gundamesque actually, like many new visual elements, large satellite dishes combined with extending wings remind me a lot of Archangel. Considering it necessary or unnecessary is a subjective matter, personally it was one of the things that I liked about this film.

alexsan1991x wrote:One thing about this that bothers me is the fact that in most post-apocalyptic scenarios technology goes backwards, not forwards. which brings me to a sub-point about how the fuck both NERV and Wille still have the technology to create AND maintain new Eva units.

It's possible that they're simply exploiting whatever was left behind, Eva-02 was never completely restored for a reason, I think.

I watched it last night. I gotta say, I can't quite put my finger on my feelings towards the film. I've waited over 2 years to watch it since 2.22, and my initial thought was how incredibly disappointing it was. At the same time, I feel like I loved it as well.

It doesn't even seem like it's the 3rd movie. It seems like a whole other entity. I'm going to guess from the preview at the end of 2.22, they had another idea in mind, but scrapped it for some reason and replaced it with some rushed material that they envisioned was dark and deep.

There was next to no character development, but maybe that was how it was supposed to be. And unless I was oblivious to picking up on something, I'm guessing the 4th movie isn't going to explain anything on Mari's background. There was no Kaji whatsoever.. Which still befuddles me, because I thought he would play some part in the movie.. Mari did absolutely nothing. The list could go on.

I understand this movie's intention was more than likely to build up to 4.0, but I personally think it did whatever job it was supposed to.. terribly. I can't see how it was stated that these movies are to appear more "fan-friendly" and more accessible. 3.33 isn't. But that's good, because I wouldn't prefer it that way.

Maybe all in all, this movie and it's massive 'timeskip' were created so 4.0 could do some elaborating. I just doubt that's whats going to happen.

I'm having a feeling I'll enjoy the dub a whole lot more.

Alexsan: I want to disagree on the characterization. I will say that I thought at first, it followed on well from 2.22. Shinji wanting to help is a major departure from earlier characterization and accurately reflects the growth he undertook in 2.22 after being fired to turn around and run back into NERV and offer to pilot Unit 01.

That being said, after he leaves for NERV his characterization can be summed up as "traumatized". He's subject to a number of deliberate shocks by two parties that want to use him for their own purposes. Koaru, as an agent of Seele to trigger 4I, and Gendo/Fuyutusuki as an agent of NERV to "lay a path" for Unit 13's "awakening", whatever that is. Essentially NERV want to execute most of Seele's plan, but stop short of instrumentality (again) and kill off Koaru. Which is exactly what happens.

I saw some hints of of characterization in Misato and Asuka (notably the exchange between Mari and Asuka after Asuka visits Shinji). There seems to be hints that Asuka still cares. Probably not in the way shippers want, but hey. Misato too, or Shinji would be headless. The secondary characters are kind of subtle, but they're there. Koaru is barely touched on. The one who hogs all the characterization is Shinji and the last half of the movie is basically us watching him get completely wrecked by his role in this brave post-N3I world and how he tries - and fails - to have a do over.

It kind of hangs together but has a bunch of, ahem, innovations that are (imho) wholly unnecessary. They pretty much pulled the dual pilot Eva out of nowhere in order to justify the piano duet stuff. The dual spears justify the dual pilot Eva. But you could just have piano playing without any of that fluff. Why??

alexsan1991x wrote:It's cool.

I'm relaxed now.

You have to understand, the film was a lot to take in but for all the wrong reasons.

I've chilled for a bit and vented, but my points remain absolutely the same.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm just outright plainly seeing that there was no story at all. Now, without sounding like a stuck up dick... I've studied media for around 8 years now, and so can pretty much say without a doubt that this film was rushed beyond belief.
I fail to see anything in this film that indicates it was supposed to be this way.

It wasn't dark, either and we weren't "in the dark" about anything because it actually goes to lengths to explain loose ends but just fails explaining the most important stuff. Why?

Because there wasn't time for it.

...

This seems a bit overly simplified but that was the gist of what I thought as well.

I cannot stress enuf how much better this movie is seeing it the way it was meant to and not a camrip.

Any problem I had with it the first time are gone. I didn't feel a need to know more about the timeskip, I think I got the gist of it this time. Best of rebuild, really don't see the beef with it, eva at its best.


5/5

10/10

100/100

Bring on 4.0

Charsi wrote:Really liked the start. Cool with the timeskip. Utterly let down by the confusing myriad of new stuff thrown in just because. The story couldn't be told without inventing a dual plug eva and a second spear out of nothingness?

There were originally 4 spears from Misato's flashback. There's still some yet to be accounted for.

Watched it yesterday, dug through the BD, rewatched it, slept on it, rewatched it today.

Overall I loved it. I'm not bothered by the timeskip or other so called "ridiculousness"
I'm actually extremely happy to see them do things I wanted them to do long ago like applying Eva tech outside of Evas, especially using AT Field propulsion. It was kinda sorta there before, but it was never ABUSED like it should have been. It finally is
Wunder = awesome.
I have even crazier hopes but those are too crazy to be delivered on even in FINAL.

Kaworu wasn't as terrible as I expected. I never liked him in TV because he was only a plot device to give Shinji that final push into tumbling down. His treatment is better in Q. He still uses Shinji, but at least he's not actively forcing misery on him. He's actually shippable now.

Asuka's development being mostly put off for the next movie again isn't too bad because it promises to be very interesting. Mari needed more nyan~ and VR tea flavor selection.

My main complaint is with that bastard Anno. WHY MUST HE KEEP TORTURING Shinji SO MUCH? You've stabbed him in the heart and shit in the wound last time. Is it really too much to ask to go easier on the poor kid the 2nd time around? I don't necessarily mean a unicorn and rainbows happy end, but at least give him another chance at something other than complete misery and dispair.

It was also fascinating from the technical point of view. There's finally no more upscaley bits here and there. Everything is razor sharp and consistent. New aspect ratio was a surprise but it worked well. I'm glad they didn't just crop. The whole film was properly framed to the new AR and the trailers/TV airing are what's cropped. There's even more 3DCG than last time but it all works fine. They definitely perfected 2D and 3D integration, but at the same time all the key moments are still 2D. 1.0 and 2.0 still had a ton of obvious experimentation but they have it down now. I'd love to see what they can do with their tech once they're done with Eva.

I'm looking forward to FINAL. The preview is interesting but as we've seen before it will probably have little to do with what makes the final cut.

Now I just need for my physical copy to arrive to dig through the booklet. Extremely disappointed with amazon.co.jp. They screwed up the payment twice and still haven't shipped it, the first time ever in 7 years that I've shopped with them.
1.11 and 2.22 BD orders from them were fine and I recieved it pretty much as fast as Ornette recieved his from cdjapan this time around.

Alright, finally got to watch this thing!

My verdict: it's too short.

There's a great story in here, some really interesting themes, cool characters, lots of emotion. But it feels like I'm watching a compilation movie of a TV series instead of a self-contained film. The first half is great, loved the crazy setting and the time-skip and all that, but there's just not enough time for the movie to do anything with it. Character development is way too rushed such that the emotional payoffs didn't have as much impact as they should have had. A lot of things feel at first glance like they're just quasi-mystical bullshit pulled from nowhere, but no more so than the original series and End of Eva. It's just that it's all coming at you in the space of about 15 minutes or so and none of it has the proper context or framing. Things that should have had a huge impact just sort of happen one after another.

I think this is the only time I've ever said this, but this film easily could have done with another 40 minutes.

I'd love to know more of how this movie was made because I get the feeling something went really wrong at some point.

Yeah, I think it would've worker better if the film was actually 2+ hours. I think they could've covered some of the things that went on during the timeskip with that length, IMHO. Plus, we could've have seen other character's POV of the events that took place.

Watched second time: first in the theater and second with blu-ray version.

Watching it again certainly makes you understand more, but its still very hard to understand every little details.


Overall I really liked Q. The only problem I had was that they had too many things unexplained, and the pacing of overall movie.

As for the pacing I thought the middle part was a bit too long. I know it needs to be long to build strong relationship with Shinji and Kaworu, but it sacrifices other parts in my opinion. Maybe inbetween the Shinji&Kaworu part they could have thrown 5-10 minutes of Wille and Wunder.

And yes, ultimately I agree that movie should have been longer. I feel they try to put too much in short running time.


I think Q's true quality/success will be determined by the next movie.


I am going to go see the 3.0 (not 3.33) on theater again tonight. will be interesting to compare the difference between 3.33 again.

xenosaga wrote:I think Q's true quality/success will be determined by the next movie.

This. It's important to remember that 3.0 is just a cog in a bigger machine.

It was excellent. The first half was very sad, melancholy. The second half played more like a horror movie. I think Kaworu's relaitonship with Shinji made far more sense in this portrayal than in the series. If I had any qualms is that too much is left in the dark, but I know people who've seen it repeatedly who've told me that it gets easier to understand that way and were able to answer some of my questions. The story is VERY economical, almost to a fault, I almost thought Asuka and the rest would have been reduced to cameos which in itself is not a bad thing, but hot damn, with the third act they were brought in again and in what a way! The whole film definitely echoed EOE in a lot of ways for me and that is a great thing. And I'm also glad we were given something I've wanted since I've known the series: Yui's incident with the Eva. So yeah, great movie. Definitely far more low key than the other two installments but that's great in my book.

The film reminds me of THX-1138 in that it throws you into this alien world with no safety net, showing how you might actually feel if you leapt forward in time. Lack of explanation is almost the entire point. There are flashes of illumination, but the film's aim is to make you a stranger in a strange land.

I liked it, but it's undeniably the worst of the series as a film in and of itself. I have a feeling it will work better as an opening act for the final movie, but for now, I'm unsatisfied.

Of course it's frustrating seeing so many characters radically changed in unpleasant ways, but I'm willing to accept this. I'm willing to accept new directions with the film series, but so far Anno is still relying too much on the emotional cargo of the previous film to make us care about what's happening in this one, which hurts it, I think.

But it was quite an experience, and I can't wait to watch it again. Here's hoping that the final film can cash the check that this film has written.