3.0 Film Reaction Thread

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:13 am

View Original Postssguy wrote:I don't get why people are unhappy with the depressing tone of 3.0. Eva without depression just isn't Eva.

I was worried about the end of 2.0 since it seemed that Shinji's life was actually going to turn out ok, and that really would have ruined everything.

I'm happy that we were wrong, when we thought that Eva would turn into Gurren Lagann 3.0.....

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:29 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:I'm happy that we were wrong, when we thought that Eva would turn into Gurren Lagann 3.0.....

I just want Final to hurry up and pull itself out of Anno's labyrinth of a mind.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:54 am

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:I just want Final to hurry up and pull itself out of Anno's labyrinth of a mind.

Evangelion 4.0: you can (not) release before year 2126.

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Postby thegoodson » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:44 am

Alright here goes. Lurked here for awhile, but the sufficient amount of drunk I got tonight/right now coupled with coming home earlier then expected and going "Fuck it lets download that camrip!" also encouraged me to post my reaction here.

So yeah, what the fuck people? :tongue: That was awesome. Coming from a guy who loved the series and EoE (loved's the wrong word, more like "Oh goddammit yeah I guess okay fuck you Anno") I was initially weary of the rebuilds. Actually, I was initially not a fan of 2.22 and didn't bother with 1.11. Then my friends got interested as I talked up the series and I decided to reconsider the 2 movies.

And you know what? They are awesome. Rewatch has raised them considerably.

Seriously. 3.0's structure is fucking great. The arguments about "Why doesn't anyone tell Shinji anything?!" Seriously? Did you miss the part where they were in the middle of attempting to fly some sort of angel airship for the first time, and couldn't really stop for a moment without the fear of being blown to goddamn smithereens by some sort of nemesis forcefield? He probably wasn't at the forefront of their minds right then, and Rei kinda burst into that motherfucker and pulled his ass out. Fear was probably the biggest motivator, or at least the one at the forefront of Misato's mind. I'm sure Misato wasn't expecting that, and was getting ready to fill his ass in properly at the right time. People REALLY exagerated Misatio's coldness. And then at the end, he's about to END THE WORLD. What the fuck, it makes sense they'd bust his ass. And Gendo being big douche supremo per usual. I think its great that Fuyutsuki filled him in as proxy dad, he probably recognizes he and Yui should have been a thing. I like that even though he seems to know ultimate goal he still feels for shin

I don't know, I really enjoyed the tone/pacing/everything. Sad ass for sure, but goddamn would you expect anything else? I didn't feel manipulated, I didn't feel shat on, its the 3rd of 4. Bitching about non explained things seems irrelevant. Bitching about character development does too because Rebuild is the Shinji show. Asukas my fav, but I recognize she's just gonna be support here. So if you watched the original, yay you get some shout outs. If you didn't, oh well she'll still be decently developed as a side character. BUt expecting the same level of development as the tv show just don't make sense. Take any movie with a side character, pretend there was a tv show before it, and then complain in the movie when they don't get developed enough. My (not well articulated) point is, people draw too much on the history of a show to inform the new standalone thing. Expecting 24 eps of development in 2 movies is ludicrous. Take what you get to inform the new character. Comparison will only hurt because the other had a lot more time to develop people.

In summary, assuming Ann-dog doesn't pull a 'Lost' and leave us hanging in terms of explanations there's nothing to worry about until after the fact.We can call his ass a hack after 4, but before then seems premature. But right now I just watched a very well made, intriguing, question raising film in the form of my fav tv series. Shinji's irrationality made sense. Misato's not explaining err thing made sense. Gendo not explaining shit made sense. Man, after reading the posts I was ready for a total bomb, not the best of the rebuilds so far. Goes to show huh? Or maybe its just the beers. Either way HELLO EVE GEEKS I LURKED AND NOW I POST. 3.0 FTW

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:17 am

Most of us were wondering why they needed an airship in the first place.

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Postby thegoodson » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:27 pm

Oh wow. Got a little carried away there. Maybe I can explain myself a little more clearly now.

Reading the negative responses to 3.0, I started to get pretty wary. It wasn’t just what the opinions were, it’s that they seemed well reasoned. But actually seeing it changed my mind completely. Now I was pretty sauced, but character motivations and actions made sense to me, and specific complaints didn’t.
I didn’t feel that Misato treated Shinji excessively coldly. Shinji has been captured, incarcerated, and kept out of his Eva. I’m sure briefing him on everything that happened would be uncomfortable for her anyway, and that wasn’t the right time to do it. A lot of the “2 sentences could have saved us so much time” talk isn’t really a valid complaint in my book because it cuts out all the surrounding character motivations and events. It’s the same argument that a lot of people had about the scheme in Django Unchained, and Tarantino addressed it effectively.

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/quentin-tarantino-django-unchained_n_2340987.html[/url]

Main point being, consider the characters and the assumptions they're working from. Misato and Ritsuko both seem to think containment is the best option for Shinji at the moment. They are in the middle of doing a bunch of other shit that takes precedence over filling him in. Despite their perceived coldness, I doubt they’re going to stop and say “You killed everyone and we’re fighting your dad but stay on our side because he’ll use you for nefarious purposes bro.” There’s probably a better place in time and a better way to say it, especially since they thought Shinji wasn’t a threat, and weren’t expecting him to get kidnapped/recued. They are in the middle of launching an airship (I’ll get to that) and also are responsible for putting Shinji in the position to initiate near 3rd impact earlier, so I can see why they’d hold off for a bit.

EDIT: Thinking back on it, I really need to rewatch the Rei getting Shinji out of Wunder scene. I can't remember what Misato said there. This is probably where you guys are saying they should have said something different.

As far as Mari and Asuka character development, and me being an Asuka fan, I’m fine with the level of it that they’re getting. I think a lot of the problems that people have with the Rebuild isn’t actually that there isn’t character development, its that there’s less than what was in the series. Asuka has been developed, just not to the degree she was in the original. It’s a casualty of the medium. She has the amount of development someone with her plot presence deserves IMO. And Mari, well she's supposed to be all mysterious. If you like her, fine. If you don't, oh well, maybe you'll be satisfied with her explanation in 4.


Most of us were wondering why they needed an airship in the first place.


I might just be too optimistic, but I’m expecting some larger explanation in the 4th movie for loads of things. I will come back and say “That was unnecessary.” If it does indeed prove to be unnecessary in the wake of Final and was just used because it looks cool. But a lot of people around her seem really uncomfortable with the amount of “whys” getting laid on us without explanation. But I'm not sure we should be counting that as a negative when it could be deliberately used to build the mystery and anticipation for the 4th. If all this shit happened in the 4th, yeah I’d get it. But having it happen in what is essentially a movie predicated on withholding information and constantly raising the stakes right before the last movie just makes sense. Build that momentum and intrigue and what not.

I think its just a different way of approaching the series honestly. I say “We’ve got a whole movie to get this stuff tied up.” And others say “We’ve only got one more movie to tie this up, and there’s too much to tie up.” So we’ll see. Some people would count that as a flaw in itself, that the movies can’t stand on their own and you need to have the full picture to make sense of them ( I don’t). But 3.0 only reinvigorated my optimism because more questions are exciting to me, assuming they’re adequately explained. But I feel it was emotionally resonant, well paced (the most movie feeling of the series so far), provocative, and made sense in terms of the rebuild continuum. And really damn sad. I feel like it was a big step forward for the Rebuild narrative. New Eva exploring new territory, and (for me) doing it exceedingly well, is always something I’ll get excited about. I’d much rather have these than a rehash of the series.

I should probably watch it again though to see if I misinterpreted anything.

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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:03 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Most of us were wondering why they needed an airship in the first place.
Gendo's base is in the middle of Tokyo-3, and WILLE's main military force seems to reside in naval battleships, they had to be able to bring the bunk of their force when they will attack neo-NERV.
Besides if the hazmat suit Shinji has to wear to visit the surface of Tokyo-3 is any indication, it imply that there is entire zones which became highly toxic, and being ably to fly over these zones is a big tactical advantage.

Finally, Rule of Cool, that must have weighed in the balance, the same one that brought us giant biomechanical mechas with giant sized rifles, sniper rifles and rocket-launchers stored in buildings! :D
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:44 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Finally, Rule of Cool, that must have weighed in the balance, the same one that brought us giant biomechanical mechas with giant sized rifles, sniper rifles and rocket-launchers stored in buildings! :D

I'll admit, Rule of Cool is awesome. ^_^ However, I still think that an airship is a tad excessive.

Back to the topic at hand. I know that I, for one, will probably form a much different opinion of the series after I've seen it on my pre-ordered BD copy. Seeing it in 1080p and actually hearing it as it was meant to be will considerably boost my opinion of it.

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Postby Blue Monday » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:47 pm

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:Most of us were wondering why they needed an airship in the first place.

Because it's fuckin' kick-ass, bro!

:tongue:

First viewing; hated it.

Second viewing; not sure if I mind.

Now I fucking love it man, haha.
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Postby Warren Peace » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:42 pm

The Wunder conveys a sense of rag-tag rebels on the run. It's also an expression of how drastically the world has changed since Shinji's "hiatus". A somewhat extreme example like that was needed to indicate that we ain't in Kansas anymore. Wille operating out of their own Nerv-like facility just wouldn't have been as impressive.

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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:41 am

^ Spot on.

One of the first comments I made to my partner walking out of the cinema was that I didn't like the airship because it just didn't feel like Eva - Then promptly realising that that was probably much of the point, hehe.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:42 am

The Wunder - before seeing the film I was wary of it. Concerned it would be stupid. After seeing the film.... I love it! Can't wait to see more of it in the next film!

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:26 am

View Original Postthegoodson wrote:EDIT: Thinking back on it, I really need to rewatch the Rei getting Shinji out of Wunder scene. I can't remember what Misato said there. This is probably where you guys are saying they should have said something different.

Actually that's the point where she acted humanely, she emotionally tried to convince Shinji that Rei wasn't the same person he knows, after that she also showed that she's not a complete bitch when she didn't activate the damned choker. But it was way too late, everything before that left Shinji deeply traumatised, she said that he doesn't have to do anything, Asuka said that he doesn't need to know anything, everyone cornered him without even explaining the reason behind all their hatred and resentment.
So let’s make a wish.
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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:35 pm

It was way too late and too damn little : the only thing she said is that actually he's in the custody of an organization called WILLE whose goal is to destroy NERV(you know, the organization lead by his FATHER) and that Rei is gone.
She didn't explained him why fighting against NERV made WILLE the good guys, nor why he shouldn't goes back to NERV, nor what does she meant by "Rei is gone"... while Rei is calling for Shinji in her EVA 10 meters away!

Oh and we shouldn't forget the fact that she was pointing the command to the damned choker a him the whole time!
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Postby Warren Peace » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Pragmatically, "go and I'll kill you" was probably her best option at that moment. All she could do is tell him the truth, which he rejected (for understandable reasons). I'm not sure what else she could have said to prove herself in those few minutes. It's not as if elaborating on Rei would have calmed him down.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:58 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:It's not as if elaborating on Rei would have calmed him down.

Well, not treating him like the pariah of the century would have helped. The best thing she could have done would have been to try to act as if she weren't thinking of how much she hated him.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:46 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:Pragmatically, "go and I'll kill you" was probably her best option at that moment. All she could do is tell him the truth, which he rejected (for understandable reasons). I'm not sure what else she could have said to prove herself in those few minutes. It's not as if elaborating on Rei would have calmed him down.
At least it could have make him question his father's motives before everything went out of control, or give him the suspicion that ReiQ isn't "his" Rei so the revelation wouldn't have destroyed him so utterly to make him a mental wreck obsessed beyond reason to fix everything and would have let him enough sanity to actually listen to Kaworu and don't pull these damned spears.

Or maybe it wouldn't have changed a thing, or maybe it would have made things even worse, who knows, but at least Misato wouldn't have passed as an inept pedagogue who managed to turn the Doomsday boy against them in less than one day!
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Postby CJD » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:24 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:It was way too late and too damn little : the only thing she said is that actually he's in the custody of an organization called WILLE whose goal is to destroy NERV(you know, the organization lead by his FATHER) and that Rei is gone.
She didn't explained him why fighting against NERV made WILLE the good guys, nor why he shouldn't goes back to NERV, nor what does she meant by "Rei is gone"... while Rei is calling for Shinji in her EVA 10 meters away!

Oh and we shouldn't forget the fact that she was pointing the command to the damned choker a him the whole time!


Obviously prior to watching the camrip I was on the Shinji train, but this scene really solidified my view that Shinji's reaction there was completely natural and expected. Shinji's line
00:30:45 {Shinji} That's just too one-sided!

really sums up the situation he's in. Everything from Wille is "Us us us." and as justified as that might be given the context the fact is Shinji doesn't know the context. All he knows is they're treating him like a criminal and they expect him to willfully stay in that situation, despite evidence they're apparently lying to him (in "Rei').

Definitely one of my favorite scenes in the movie. It really exemplifies the tragedy in the movie, between Misato's inability to handle the situation better due to her emotional conflicts and Shinji's unfortunately wrong decision due to his lack of insight. The characters aren't monsters, none of them act like monsters there, they're just flawed. They're unfortunately human and they make all too human mistakes. The problem is when you make a mistake in Rebuild the effects are disproportional to the real world, so they keep getting screwed.

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:14 pm

I found a Kotaku review of the film that sums up perfectly what I think of the characterization problems in found with the members of WILLE, specially the bolded section :

SPOILER: Show
Richard: Exactly! The worst of the lot is Misato. She was egging him on in Evangelion 2.22. She knew what he was doing (saving Rei) and wanted him to go for it. Neither he nor she had any idea what he was trying to do could cause the Third Impact. And christ, it's like she's reading from a manual called "How Not to Deal With Shinji Ikari." He is awakened and taken in chains up to the bridge, where she then refuses to talk to him while Ritsuko explains they've attached a bomb to his neck (of course no one bothers to tell him why). Then, when he offers to help Asuka fight an angel, Misato just coldly tells him he's not needed. You know, after specifically calling him to the bridge. Seriously Misato, have you MET Shinji? A few kind words and he'll be eating out of your hand! What, were they just trying to break him psychologically? If so, why?

Toshi: Again, playing devil's advocate, we don't know WHAT happened in that blank of 14 years. So something must have happened to make them turn on him like that. I am kind of alright with the explanation that "things are different now," which sort of works with the title of You Can (Not) Redo. But, yes, very plot driven and not character driven enough.

Richard: But sadly, we find out nothing of the rationale that turns the cast from "characters" into "one-dimensional assholes." When it comes to all the characters on Misato's side (including Asuka and Mari), their only point in this movie was to make it so when Shinji has the chance to ditch them, he does.

Toshi: I wouldn't say "one-dimensional assholes" as much as "too one-dimensional to be convincing." We're kind of shown that SOMETHING has happened to turn everyone against Shinji, but we're never really given a picture of how horrible it was (just hints of it) and the characters aren't written in a way to convincingly make it seem whatever happened was bad enough to make them turn against Shinji. Only that they either blame him or just don't like him anymore.

Richard: Are we supposed to think it was the end of Evangelion 2.22 that did it? Because that doesn't make a lick of sense.
Note from me : I think he's assuming that the scenes in the trailer at the end of 2.22 really happened during the Time Skip, and so it would imply that Shinji's N3I didn't caused that much damage, at least not immediately.
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Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Warren Peace » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:33 pm

I think Kotaku confuses "characterization problems" with "dramatization". It's like lamenting why Obi-Wan couldn't have just told Luke the truth about Darth Vader from the get-go. That would have saved everyone so much trouble!


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