Eva Unit Format(s) and Name Meaning Discussion

Merkaba · Postby **Merkaba** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:11 pm

Where did it show that Adam had an A.T. Field?

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:26 pm

Merkaba wrote:Where did it show that Adam had an A.T. Field?

Doesn't have to "show it". It's implied by the way that NGE's mechanics work, and there's no precedent for Adam to not have one. This thread isn't about NGE, so I'm not going to trot out the details here.

Archaiel · Postby **Archaiel** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:30 pm

DemonSpade wrote:I don't really know where to put this, but someone brought up the Whore of Babylon (as in the book Revelation) somewhere when discussing 01's color scheme during its Awakening. So I went and read most of Revelation and it also talks about horns:

[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

So, horns represent Kings that have not yet received a kingdom. It's safe to say Eva Units with horns are Adams, then. And the Adams will eventually recombine to form the "Beast", which is described like this:

[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
[10] And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
[11] And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So it is dead, but will come back eventually? Adam? Lilith? (The latter seems more likely, as she is definitely dead and in a "bottomless pit" (Dogma).

Not sure what to make of the kings though. Gendo was referred to as one, so he might be the one that "is". But who are the five that have fallen? Who is the last one who will only last a short time? Shinji?

Rebuild seems quite keen on that book. Might search for other parallels.

It seems appropriate to speculate Gendo as the king that is. The five kings that have fallen may be the old men of SEELE and I would wager that the king to come is either Shinji or Kaworu (I cannot bring myself to think that his role is yet finished). This is quite the impressive parallel that you have drawn Spade.

Eva 13 has skewed every theory I previously held as true. That being said I think the new theory that Kaworu merges with 13 to quote on quote become the 13th angel has some merit. What could be a better final angel than another god-status Eva? Plus: the DAI designation of 13 which is used mostly for the angels, Kaworu as the 13th angel, the complete lack of concern on Gendo's or Fuyutsuki's part that 13 was stopped, aaaaand who can forget just how f****** cryptic Kaworu has been. His demeanor is completely alien. He behaves with such omniscience, although this appears as nothing new, he never previously showed any semblance of omniscient behavior or had given any clue to knowing events before they happened; he simply exuded an otherworldly understanding of events due to his nature as both Adam and Tabris.

Perhaps this is all just Anno being the "Jesus of Trolling" he has always been shown to be, but all of these parallels/coincidences, etc. have to amount to something (even if it is a frankenstein abomination of an Eva).

EDIT: This post would be better served and would be more of more relevance in the "Evangelion Unit–##" thread. Could a moderator move the post? Sorry for any inconvenience.

Merkaba · Postby **Merkaba** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:37 am

Reichu wrote:Doesn't have to "show it". It's implied by the way that NGE's mechanics work, and there's no precedent for Adam to not have one. This thread isn't about NGE, so I'm not going to trot out the details here.

There is precedent, however, that what Adam does have is the ability to generate an Anti-A.T. Field. Where the precedent lacks is Adam having an actual A.T. Field.

Regardless of whether or not it's NGE or NME, Adam(s) never displays having an A.T. Field, so Adam(s)'s survivors and vessels don't have to have/wouldn't need one, either.

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:04 pm

Merkaba wrote:Where the precedent lacks is Adam having an actual A.T. Field.

NGE stuff; take it to Discussion. Might want to look through these first, or just hit Discussion with a Search in general.

http://forum.evageeks.org/post/522415/what-exactly-is-an-AT-field/
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/4210/AT-Fields/20/?

Claiming that NGE!Adam lacks an ATF just because an "Adams' survivor" from an alternative continuity doesn't have one is exactly NOT how to go about this. If NME is invoking a new set of rules, let's focus on trying to figure out what those are, instead of retconning what was establishing in NGE, eh?

Rei IV · Postby **Rei IV** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:57 pm

I wonder if Evangelion 13 and Mark.09 lacking a traditional AT-Fields would have anything do with, as mentioned once in this thread, about them being Seele's special play things. I'm not too sure if Mark.06 had a AT Field as well. That's one specific Eva we know next nothing about as well. In the preview for Final, it seems that Eva Unit 02/08 battles what appears to be "copies" of said Eva (in green). Perhaps it's not totally out of the picture yet?

One interesting thing about these Evas, aside from the horns and the connection to Adam, is that they seem to be doppelgangers of existing Evas. Mark.06 and Evangelion 13 being based on Unit 01 and Mark.09 being based on Unit-00. Seele/Nerv seems to lack creativity when manufacturing brand new Evas.

:hahaha:

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:12 pm

On a world mechanics level, Eva-13 having no A.T. Field is terribly confusing in all sorts of ways. In NGE, ATF was a pretty catch-all explanation, covering everything from how Lilin's bodies held together to all of Evas' and Angels' psychokinetic powers. In NME, Eva-13 supposedly lacks an ATF (...but why?) and needed drones to project one (what did those drones have that the Eva didn't?), but, even after the destruction of the drones, exhibits no difficulty showing off a variety of godly abilities. The hovering-in-midair that 13 is doing before it even properly "Awakens" is an example of psychokinetic ability.

And my questions from before remain:

- Why is Mark.09 persistently called "Adams' Vessel", but 13 is called "surviving Adams"?
- If Mark.09 doesn't have an ATF either, why is no comment made on the matter? (Though perhaps it's implied when Asuka shoots at the Eva, can't break through the Seele core plate, and the message "Eva Neutralizing Anti-ATF Custom APR - INEFFECTIVE" comes on in her plug.)

I'm a bit boggled by this whole "no ATF" thing. Having an ATF is what made Evas such powerful weapons in the first place. So why on god's green earth are ATF-less Evas, apparently, MORE powerful? Shouldn't an ATF-less Eva be a powerless and effectively worthless Eva?

What exactly are they going for here?

Rei IV · Postby **Rei IV** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:55 pm

Maybe it's not that Mark.09 doesn't have a AT Field, it's just that somebody forgot to order Rei Q to put it on. Being bombed and shot at, you would think it would cause some reactionary behavior, after all.

:lol:

On the subject of Mark.09, what's up with Misato's dialogue about it being "the champion". Mistranslation, misinterpretation of the line? It almost seems to imply that they've fought the Eva before (or maybe it's the pilot/Rei she was referencing). Shortly after Eva 13 activates for the first time, we see a quick scene that displays something a long the lines of "New Eva activated" on the Wunder or some shit like that. With Mark.09, no seems to be surprised by its existence, even AFTER it crashes through the ship. Here's my personal fanwank, that previous Evas are simply copies of Unit-00 that look exactly like Mar.09 or some variation off. There's also there's that crap about it being the Wunder's original master.

I hope the FAR does exist in this continuity because it seems they have some pretty nifty technology with giant scythes and ships and all that jazz.

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:07 pm

Rei IV wrote:On the subject of Mark.09, what's up with Misato's dialogue about it being "the champion".

Here's the last time it came up.

Rei IV · Postby **Rei IV** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Reichu wrote:Here's the last time it came up.

Thanks for the link, Reichu.

Jeez, I guess that scenario is just as problematic since Mari only recently discovers that Mark.09 is "Adam's vessel", which itself is still WTF. Still, they don't seem to be too shocked or surprised by its existence. Yeah, I think it would do wonders if Anno realized an OVA series regarding the 14 year time skip. It probably would help cover a lot of crap that went on.

Postby **pwhodges** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:08 pm

Reichu wrote:I'm a bit boggled by this whole "no ATF" thing. Having an ATF is what made Evas such powerful weapons in the first place. So why on god's green earth are ATF-less Evas, apparently, MORE powerful? Shouldn't an ATF-less Eva be a powerless and effectively worthless Eva?

What exactly are they going for here?

It seems a bit far-fetched, but perhaps the "No-ATF" actually implies something specific which is different and even better but has not been named yet.

Nuclear Lunchbox · Postby **Nuclear Lunchbox** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:52 pm

pwhodges wrote:It seems a bit far-fetched, but perhaps the "No-ATF" actually implies something specific which is different and even better but has not been named yet.

I can't remember the last time I had to deal with this... the whole 'something that has not been named yet' issue. This should be fun. :chinscratch:

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:55 pm

pwhodges wrote:It seems a bit far-fetched, but perhaps the "No-ATF" actually implies something specific which is different and even better but has not been named yet.

At the rate things are going... this doesn't seem far-fetched at all.

Although, still raises all kinds of questions about why, if Eva-13 is such hot stuff and beyond A.T. Fields, it needed four drones to protect it with one. Unless it didn't actually need them at all, and they were only there because.... uhhhhh....

The more I think about this, the more I just want to hold up my hands and go "LOLANIME!".

Nuclear Lunchbox · Postby **Nuclear Lunchbox** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:01 pm

Where could I find a topic concerning the Drones on 13? I've done some searching, but haven't come up with any good results. Just little snippets here and there.

YouTube · Postby **Reichu** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:08 pm

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:Where could I find a topic concerning the Drones on 13?

There isn't one, probably because it's [A] so specific, and [B] a spoiler that would impossible to give a proper title to. This topic probably has the most discussion, since it's impossible to discuss 13's standing among the other Evas without bringing up those stupid things.

If you want discussion that's relatively independent of Eva-13, you could go with the hypothesis that they're related to the Nemesis Series, and use the N.S. topic.

Rei IV · Postby **Rei IV** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:23 pm

Here's something interesting, re-watching certain key scenes in the movie (yet again), it seems like Seele's Evas don't seem require batteries or the umbilical cord like traditional Units, such as Units 02 and 08. They're able to function as long as they want to. The scene where Mari (in Unit-08) decapitates Mark.09 shows they're still using the umbilical cord in even after 14 years and when Unit 02 runs out of power towards the end of the film in the battle Shinji, it's given some sort of battery "back up" or something like that. Perhaps they've found new means of giving the Evas power not totally dependent on the cord, as well as being able to last a big longer than the standard 6 minutes?

Nuclear Lunchbox · Postby **Nuclear Lunchbox** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:25 pm

Rei IV wrote:Here's something interesting, re-watching certain key scenes in the movie (yet again), it seems like Seele's Evas don't seem require batteries or the umbilical cord like traditional Units, such as Units 02 and 08.

I would presume that the units are using S2 engines.

Postby **UrsusArctos** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:47 pm

Nuclear Lunchbox wrote:I would presume that the units are using S2 engines.

Unless they've decided to toss in raw Spiral Energy as a fuel source for the newfangled Evas/Adams' Vessels.

Seriously, the lack of A.T. Fields really makes no sense, even leaving out everything NGE-related you'd expect an Eva to have some kind of ATF projection. What a confused mess this is.

bladerj · Postby **bladerj** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:11 pm

palerider1911 wrote:Both the Mk.09 and Eva 13 are able to function without the need of some external power source, or batteries. With Mk.06 also having the "Mark" designation, and being able to fly, there doesn't seem to be any reason to think that it would have the same time constraints [as far as energy is concerned] as the "Unit" designated Evas. [Unit-02' and Unit-08.]

So arguing that Mk.06 flew from the moon base to Earth at a really high speed isn't necessary. Also keep in mind that the angle of reentry was an issue for Asuka+Unit-02' when they were recovering Unit-01 from orbit, so I don't know that an AT Field could protect Mk.06 from reentry at a speed faster than free-fall [as you said "like a bullet"].

thats becouse unit 2 has battery and wouldnt be able to keep its at fieldfor the duration of reentry. remember the angel bomb, it fell with at field and acelerated andvreached surface in time and in roughtly less then 5 minutes. Asuka still had 30s before klling it

palerider1911 · Postby **palerider1911** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:51 pm

bladerj wrote:thats becouse unit 2 has battery and wouldnt be able to keep its at fieldfor the duration of reentry. remember the angel bomb, it fell with at field and acelerated andvreached surface in time and in roughtly less then 5 minutes. Asuka still had 30s before klling it

True. Great catch.

Anyways, I watched a sharper [but not any more stable, sadly] looking cam-rip the other day [Found HERE] and noticed that Eva 13 and Mk.09 aren't hovering/flying down into Central Dogma [an assumption I aired in this same thread before, I believe], but being lowered by some cable:

SPOILER: Show

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